Avs camp just point to Vatanen. Exact same age, also puck moving RHD. Barrie has a bit more offensive output but Vatanen has been better defensively. It's a pretty even comparison and Vatanen took home a 4 year, 4.875 million dollar deal. I'm sure Barrie is asking for a LOT more, and the Avs are scratching their head.
Confirmed Signing with Link: [COL] Tyson Barrie (4 years, $5.5M AAV)
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I am a huge Vatanen fan. Barrie is a superior player though. Better producer as you said, but Vatanen is not actually better defensively. Barrie is a better shot suppressor and better overall possession player.
He should deservedly be asking for more than Vatanen.
- Jan 18, 2016
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ROR wanted out unless the Avs would cave in and give him 8mil a year. This is totally different than the ROR situation. I
IWantSakicAsMyGM
Registered User
Since you seem to know the future, can you please let us know exactly what return the Avs get for Barrie when they trade him? It'll save Avs fans a lot of headaches when everyone starts offering the latest revision of Bozak + 2nd.
This should be posted in the OP of every one of these 'arbitration numbers' threads.
Six Assets
Tim Stützle
Since you seem to know the future, can you please let us know exactly what return the Avs get for Barrie when they trade him? It'll save Avs fans a lot of headaches when everyone starts offering the latest revision of Bozak + 2nd.
Avs have three options:
1. Continue arbitration, sign him for 1 or 2yr deals until he hits UFA.
2. Sign him long-term.
3. Trade him.
If they do not do number 2, they will have to get rid of him at some point. Seeing as how Barrie is a legitimate top-pairing defenseman right now, and seeing as how if they wait to sign him long term the AAV will inevitably increase (similar to Subban contract situation), I feel they should sign him long-term ASAP or risk losing him, being forced to trade him, or have to cave into the higher AAV value they seem to want to avoid anyway.
Also, I never claimed to "know" the return of a Barrie trade. I value him highly and would expect a hefty return. However, If I were a fan of the Avs I would certainly rather have him locked up.
- Aug 28, 2009
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But what you don't get is that avs fans want him locked up long term.
The one thing we don't do is pretend like we know what Barrie is asking for. Your premise is all fine and dandy, unless Barrie is asking for 7+ on a long term deal.
Kinda throws a wrench into your entire post doesn't it. There is a limit where you need to go to sign players and not just cave to their demands.
IWantSakicAsMyGM
Registered User
How many "legitimate top pairing" defensemen averaged 30 seconds of SH TOI this last season? Only OEL and Klingberg also had more than 22 minutes of TOI with less than 1 minute of SH TOI per game. If he wants to be paid around what they make long term, great.
If he wants Doughty/Pietrangelo/Subban money, then we'll have issues.
Can your stats tell us how many goals against and/or scoring chances each one was actually responsible for? Because that's what really matters. Not stats that are team drive and/or influenced by other circumstances. And I'm not talking about just being on the ice. Barrie does plenty to negatively influence the outcome of the scoreboard. I don't know Vatanen well enough to say though. But if you think Barrie is some good defender because of some fancy stats then be prepared to be disappointed.
And the guy is not a legit top pair player. He is a legit #3 who will get top pair minutes on a weaker team that is playing from behind more often than not. But on a good team he isn't getting a top pair role or minutes. He is still a valuable player, just as much as some top pair players, but he is what he is, a great offensive #3.
Reading through this thread is giving me brain damage.
The numbers that are being thrown around are for a 1 or 2 year RFA contract. Not a long term deal.
Barrie is asking for 6M for 1 year of RFA. To put that in perspective there isn't one RFA contract for a dman at that price point in the entire NHL. The only dmen at that price point or higher are either UFAs that got paid or young guys that signed long term deals early on that ate up their RFA and some UFA years like Pietrangelo or Karlsson.
If Barrie is asking 6M for 1 RFA season, it means on long term deal his camp is probably looking for something in the 7-7.5M+ range because it will be eating up UFA years, 3 years from now. The guy isn't going to sign a 6x6M type contract, his agents won't let him.
The other aspect that non-Avs seem to be missing is that Barrie has 3 more seasons as a RFA, not 2. The Avs are in control this time around. This isn't a ROR situation where Barrie can make it to UFA straight off this contract. Unless the Avs are willing to give a 3 year contract, which I doubt they are.
So the point is it's not like the Avs are being cheap, they aren't willing to meet the absurd demands coming from Barrie's camp. RFA situations are different from UFAs. You don't pay UFA money to a guy in RFA unless they are willing to sign a long term deal that eats up some UFA years at a reasonable price, which Barrie has shown no intent of doing.
The numbers that are being thrown around are for a 1 or 2 year RFA contract. Not a long term deal.
Barrie is asking for 6M for 1 year of RFA. To put that in perspective there isn't one RFA contract for a dman at that price point in the entire NHL. The only dmen at that price point or higher are either UFAs that got paid or young guys that signed long term deals early on that ate up their RFA and some UFA years like Pietrangelo or Karlsson.
If Barrie is asking 6M for 1 RFA season, it means on long term deal his camp is probably looking for something in the 7-7.5M+ range because it will be eating up UFA years, 3 years from now. The guy isn't going to sign a 6x6M type contract, his agents won't let him.
The other aspect that non-Avs seem to be missing is that Barrie has 3 more seasons as a RFA, not 2. The Avs are in control this time around. This isn't a ROR situation where Barrie can make it to UFA straight off this contract. Unless the Avs are willing to give a 3 year contract, which I doubt they are.
So the point is it's not like the Avs are being cheap, they aren't willing to meet the absurd demands coming from Barrie's camp. RFA situations are different from UFAs. You don't pay UFA money to a guy in RFA unless they are willing to sign a long term deal that eats up some UFA years at a reasonable price, which Barrie has shown no intent of doing.
It's quite possible (if not almost a certainty) that he wants more money (than 6x6m) if he's signing a 6 year deal.
RockLobster
King in the North
You misspelled "Draisaitl"....and I understand that you (and the vast majority of Edmonton fans, and it looks like the franchise itself) don't want to trade him. That's fine, the Avs will get the price they want from another team
(and no, Nurse + 2017 1st isn't something the Avs would want)
KrisLetAngry
MrJukeBoy
IWantSakicAsMyGM
Registered User
That would be a great deal, for Barrie and Newport.
For the Avs, it's a lot to pay their second pairing RHD.
ottawa
Avatar of the Year*
Did you even read OP?
He wants 6x1...an additional 5-6 years will cost more
Bryanbryoil
Pray For Ukraine
- Sep 13, 2004
- 88,485
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He maybe asking for $6 million but if that is his ask (and it is) then he goes in knowing that things may not go his way and that he could end up with say $5.25-$5.5 million AAV on a 2 year deal. And like I mention below in my response to ottawa, IF he wants out of Colorado his contract demands there maybe inflated relative to what he'd sign elsewhere.
Yes I did, just like Hamilton allegedly was asking Boston for a lot more than what he signed in Calgary. IF Barrie wants out of Colorado his best bet to get his wish is to ask for more than his worth because if he signs a reasonable deal Colorado has no incentive to move him unless he's a problem in the locker room.
Also keep in mind that players sometimes leave a little on the table for the added security of a long term deal.
Bender
I'll eat pancakes on his grave!
- Sep 25, 2002
- 18,225
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That's what I was thinking with ROR but nah...it's just newport. That's how they roll.
They maximize the earning potential for their clients. I can't say that I like it as a fan but no one can argue that it didn't work out fantastically well for ROR.
I wouldn't even consider 7 million that bad. Especially not if that's just a negotiating point.
I doubt he's asking 10+. I doubt he's asking 8+. If he's starting with 7, I think there's a workable 6 or 7 year deal there. Takes him through age 32, which would be an ideal time to let him go.
7x7 would be an overpayment, but not disastrous. And at least it would be an overpay on a top-end player, not bottom-six fodder.
Yah there's a limit. I think the Avs should push their's a bit higher.
All those cap hits are quite different, so weird comparisons.
Personally, I wouldn't have a huge problem giving Barrie a Pietrangelo type contract: 6.5 long term. Top-end players are going to command $$$, and better to spend there than overpaying depth guys.
Bender
I'll eat pancakes on his grave!
- Sep 25, 2002
- 18,225
- 10,855
On behalf of all Avs fans: please fell free to keep telling us more about this Barrie guy. We really haven't seen him much, so it's tough to gauge how much he's worth.
IWantSakicAsMyGM
Registered User
The Avs raised their upper limit when they signed MacKinnon. Barrie isn't worth more to the long term success of the Avs than Mack/Duchene/Landeskog/EJ/Varly. Either he realizes that and signs a reasonable contract, or I hope he enjoys playing for whatever bottom dweller is willing to give up the best return for him.
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