Speculation: Claude Giroux and the Colorado Avalanche

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

You seem like there are only 2 options - trade to the Avs for 1 + Kaut or trade to the Avs for 1 + Barron + Olausson. There is an entire world of possibilities that aren't those 2 options. The issue is you want to offer low ball, fans of Philly (not me by the way) want the moon and the reality is probably somewhere in the middle. But you seem hell bent on just looking at your wanted return, and that doesn't allow for much discussion. Giroux probably costs a 1st + more than Kaut with retention. Kaut is the type of asset a team gets for retention. But if you are going to insist that a low ball is all you'd fake offer and there is no changing your mind, just leave the forum. You aren't going to convince the majority of Philly fans that your offer is enough. Many have explained why and yet you want to go back with your exact same argument. We get it, you don't think there is going to be a bidding war for Giroux so you will only offer an underpay. Now I'm sure teams like Boston, Carolina, St Louis, Minnesota would all love to add a Giroux to their roster at the deadline. Some have more cap than Colorado, some have less - With the exception of Carolina and Colorado, all have this years 1st round pick, and all have prospects better than Kaut.

No one knows what these players will go for hence the discussion board. It feels like you want posters to just agree with you and sign off.

So, by offering an alternative viewpoint to what you think will definitely happen, I'm the one stifling open discussion? Or should everyone just agree that it'll be at least a 1st + Barron + and sign off?

 

[GirardSpinorama]

There may be some debate if Kaut is worth a 1st right now. If I'm a team willing to trade my 1st round pick, Kaut wouldn't be on my list of assets I would be looking to acquire.

I would rather just keep Kaut. Avs need that size and two way play and more importantly cheap contract. He's not a top 6 or bust player. Honestly, if it costs more than Kaut and a first, Sakic should move on from Giroux and go after him for free in the offseason. Save up the assets.

 

[Groo]

I would rather just keep Kaut. Avs need that size and two way play and more importantly cheap contract. He's not a top 6 or bust player. Honestly, if it costs more than Kaut and a first, Sakic should move on from Giroux and go after him for free in the offseason. Save up the assets.

Isn't the whole idea is to acquire him for a play off push?

 

[GirardSpinorama]

Isn't the whole idea is to acquire him for a play off push?

I rather extend our window as much as possible unless it's a clear weakness that needs to be addressed immediately.

 

[Groo]

I rather extend our window as much as possible unless it's a clear weakness that needs to be addressed immediately.

Can't win multiples if you don't win one first

 

[GirardSpinorama]

Can't win multiples if you don't win one first

Your point? The number 1 team in the league by point percentage certainly can win a cup.

 

[Groo]

Your point?

Not that hard really

 

[shadow1]

I've never suggested there won't be other bidders. I'm simply suggesting that the Avs should wait for those bidders to show up to the party before we start bidding against what we imagine they might do. Because Philly probably won't keep Giroux and will be looking for the best available offer, we don't need to beat their reserve price, just the next highest bid.

I understand what you're saying conceptually, but a 1st + Kaut is a non-competitive offer. Based on his health and performance struggles since being drafted, Kaut is beginning to look like a fringe prospect rather than someone with a long term NHL future.

(For sake of transparency, Kaut was ranked #5 by Avalanche fans this past off-season. But I am 100% sure that multiple prospects - at the minimum Behrens and Helleson - would bump him down the list if we re-did the poll today).

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

I understand what you're saying conceptually, but a 1st + Kaut is a non-competitive offer. Based on his health and performance struggles since being drafted, Kaut is beginning to look like a fringe prospect rather than someone with a long term NHL future.

(For sake of transparency, Kaut was ranked #5 by Avalanche fans this past off-season. But I am 100% sure that multiple prospects - at the minimum Behrens and Helleson - would bump him down the list if we re-did the poll today).

What other offers are currently on the table that makes a 1st + Kaut non-competitive? Or which other offers are you expecting to come from a contender that will make it so? Because I'm looking around at the other top teams and not seeing a ton of expendable high talent prospects with long term NHL futures that I'd expect to be offered up for a rental, even one as good as Giroux. And there appears like there might be too much supply (Hertl, Pavelski, Miller) to have really good bidding wars. Based on these circumstances, it's shaping up to be a buyers market.

 

[Mersss]

What other offers are currently on the table that makes a 1st + Kaut non-competitive? Or which other offers are you expecting to come from a contender that will make it so? Because I'm looking around at the other top teams and not seeing a ton of expendable high talent prospects with long term NHL futures that I'd expect to be offered up for a rental, even one as good as Giroux. And there appears like there might be too much supply (Hertl, Pavelski, Miller) to have really good bidding wars. Based on these circumstances, it's shaping up to be a buyers market.

Pavelski isn't going to be rade while the Starts are still in the playoff race
Hertl would fetch a 1st + top prospect
Miller has term on his contract, so 1st + top prospect + ??
The only reason Giroux wouldn't fetch a top prospect is the fact he has a NMC and gets to choose where he goes. Other than that...

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Pavelski isn't going to be rade while the Starts are still in the playoff race
Hertl would fetch a 1st + top prospect
Miller has term on his contract, so 1st + top prospect + ??
The only reason Giroux wouldn't fetch a top prospect is the fact he has a NMC and gets to choose where he goes. Other than that...

Sure, the Stars are in it now, but we're still 5 weeks away from the deadline, and a lot could happen between now and then. If they falter, does he maybe become available? What about Rakell if the Ducks fall off? Or even someone not quite at that level but still good depth, like Copp or Stastny? I have a feeling there's going to be a lot of options on the rental market, and not nearly as many buyers as we're used to.

 

[AvsGuy]

Kaut isn't worth a 1st, and certainly won't be the piece that holds up any Giroux trade

I had hopes for him but he's worth a 3rd right now maybe

 

[shadow1]

What other offers are currently on the table that makes a 1st + Kaut non-competitive? Or which other offers are you expecting to come from a contender that will make it so? Because I'm looking around at the other top teams and not seeing a ton of expendable high talent prospects with long term NHL futures that I'd expect to be offered up for a rental, even one as good as Giroux. And there appears like there might be too much supply (Hertl, Pavelski, Miller) to have really good bidding wars. Based on these circumstances, it's shaping up to be a buyers market.

If any team offers a 1st "+", it's almost a guarantee that the "+" will be more than Kaut. Kaut is basically an interesting reclamation project; he doesn't move the needle much.

Regarding your second point, Dallas is one position out of a WC spot with games in hand (Pavelski), and rumor has it San Jose is trying to re-sign Hertl. It's very possible one or both of those players won't be traded.

 

[Perratrooper]

I would rather just keep Kaut. Avs need that size and two way play and more importantly cheap contract. He's not a top 6 or bust player. Honestly, if it costs more than Kaut and a first, Sakic should move on from Giroux and go after him for free in the offseason. Save up the assets.

What? Kaut and a first is a very reasonable ask. Kaut I think would thrive in a different organization, he plays a pro level game he just doesn’t have the tempo that Bednar wants his players to play at.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

What? Kaut and a first is a very reasonable ask. Kaut I think would thrive in a different organization, he plays a pro level game he just doesn’t have the tempo that Bednar wants his players to play at.

I said "more than".

 

[Perratrooper]

I said "more than".

My B!

I still think that’s not enough to get Giroux though

 

[hughdreamz]

From last night:

 

[StoneHands]

Your point? The number 1 team in the league by point percentage certainly can win a cup.

I'm sure you felt this way last year when the Avs were bounced in the second round. But hey, they got that Presidents trophy so all is good.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

I'm sure you felt this way last year when the Avs were bounced in the second round. But hey, they got that Presidents trophy so all is good.

Nothing is guaranteed. They can win a cup, doesn't mean they will.

Maybe the flyer's will take all of our trade compensation as contingent on the Avs winning the cup.

Kaut + first 2023, first 2025 (Cup win condition), 2nd 2024 and 2nd 2025 (cup win condition).

 

[forsbergavs32]

What? If all it took to get Giroux here for a cup run was Kaut + 1st, I’d pay to fly myself to Denver, pack Kaut’s bags and drive him to the airport myself.

I don’t see it costing any less than 1st + Compher (cap) + Barron/Helleson (which is a deal I’d do)

 

[Lemonlimey]

I'm sure you felt this way last year when the Avs were bounced in the second round. But hey, they got that Presidents trophy so all is good.

let’s not be mean now, in a few weeks there could be a jolt of orange in colorado making us all friends!

 

[Mersss]

What? If all it took to get Giroux here for a cup run was Kaut + 1st, I’d pay to fly myself to Denver, pack Kaut’s bags and drive him to the airport myself.

I don’t see it costing any less than 1st + Compher (cap) + Barron/Helleson (which is a deal I’d do)

You're not getting out of Compher deal whitout sending AT LEAST another B prospect attached to him. Not happening, especially not in a biddinf war

 

[Flukeshot]

From last night:

Was it Danny Briere, Special Assistant TO the Regional General Manager?

 

[Gruyeriev]

This thread is going in circles. I like Giroux but our top 6 is fine. We have no problem scoring goals. Our priority should be a #4 D and help with the bottom 6. That’s what we need.

 

[dahrougem2]

I rather extend our window as much as possible unless it's a clear weakness that needs to be addressed immediately.

Martin Kaut does absolutely nothing to extend this team's window.