Speculation: Claude Giroux and the Colorado Avalanche

[CupSeeker]

Well of course we'd all rather give up Kaut. But Barron or Helleson are absolutely on the table.

Barron is much better than Helleson; not sure why they are discussed as interchangeable.

 

[FreshFitted67]

Wouldn't it be nice to have Timmins and a 1st as possible trade pieces in this discussion?

SMH,

This is when the bungles Sakic made with Grubauer in the off-season come back to bite us...

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

Barron is much better than Helleson; not sure why they are discussed as interchangeable.

Why exactly is Barron “much better” than Helleson?

 

[John Mandalorian]

Barron is much better than Helleson; not sure why they are discussed as interchangeable.

The Avs fan base has mixed feelings about the two. My impression is that some prefer Helleson because, if for no other reason, he's more of a complement to the defensemen they currently have. He's a good skater but he's stronger defensively than Barron. Barron also has size but is a better skater and not as strong on defense. And while Barron has some physicality, Helleson is better at using his physicality in game situations. Barron was more of a high end prospect (if not for the blood clots, he might have gone top 10.) Helleson was taken in the mid 2nd but has outplayed his draft position.

There's a yin/yang between the two. One's strength isn't necessarily a weakness for the other. Of the two, Barron fits more of the team identity but for that same reason, he's also somewhat redundant.

I think this is why there are mixed impressions about the two among the fan base.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

The Avs fan base has mixed feelings about the two. My impression is that some prefer Helleson because, if for no other reason, he's more of a complement to the defensemen they currently have. He's a good skater but he's stronger defensively than Barron. Barron also has size but is a better skater and not as strong on defense. And while Barron has some physicality, Helleson is better at using his physicality in game situations. Barron was more of a high end prospect (if not for the blood clots, he might have gone top 10.) Helleson was taken in the mid 2nd but has outplayed his draft position.

There's a yin/yang between the two. One's strength isn't necessarily a weakness for the other. Of the two, Barron fits more of the team identity but for that same reason, he's also somewhat redundant.

I think this is why there are mixed impressions about the two among the fan base.

I'd also add that Barron is looking good in the AHL, while Helleson is looking good in the NCAAs. I'm a little more comfortable with the AHL to NHL transition than going from the NCAAs to NHL, so I give Barron an edge on being NHL ready, and worry Helleson might still need a year or two in the AHL. And, with EJ's play being what it is, I'd rather not wait to have his potential replacement in the NHL.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

Wouldn't it be nice to have Timmins and a 1st as possible trade pieces in this discussion?

SMH,

This is when the bungles Sakic made with Grubauer in the off-season come back to bite us...

Ya for sure. But instead of grubs and kuemper, we should have gotten Freddy Anderson for free and save the picks.

 

[Lemonlimey]

Wouldn't it be nice to have Timmins and a 1st as possible trade pieces in this discussion?

SMH,

This is when the bungles Sakic made with Grubauer in the off-season come back to bite us...

If we did, we’d be looking to trade both for a goalie atm. Sakic, once again, ahead of the curve, forseeing what’s next for Grubuaer on that contract.

 

[Patagonia]

The Avs fan base has mixed feelings about the two. My impression is that some prefer Helleson because, if for no other reason, he's more of a complement to the defensemen they currently have. He's a good skater but he's stronger defensively than Barron. Barron also has size but is a better skater and not as strong on defense. And while Barron has some physicality, Helleson is better at using his physicality in game situations. Barron was more of a high end prospect (if not for the blood clots, he might have gone top 10.) Helleson was taken in the mid 2nd but has outplayed his draft position.

There's a yin/yang between the two. One's strength isn't necessarily a weakness for the other. Of the two, Barron fits more of the team identity but for that same reason, he's also somewhat redundant.

I think this is why there are mixed impressions about the two among the fan base.

AVs having the option of both DMen works well. Don't believe EJ has 1.5 years and Toews has 2.5 years will remain with the team. Barron can join the team on the bottom pairing. Helleson is likely another 1-2 years away and transitions to the AHL. Behrens is smaller and partners well with a defensive player. Unless the prospects are traded, the future pairing could get faster, younger and cheaper to extend players like Mack, Kuemper, Bura and Nuke.

Byram - Makar
Girard - Barron
Behrens - Helleson

 

[NoSoup4U]

Wouldn't it be nice to have Timmins and a 1st as possible trade pieces in this discussion?

SMH,

This is when the bungles Sakic made with Grubauer in the off-season come back to bite us...

Gruabuer sucks, he has had two opportunities with two separate franchises and has choked both times.

 

[Richard88]

Wouldn't it be nice to have Timmins and a 1st as possible trade pieces in this discussion?

SMH,

This is when the bungles Sakic made with Grubauer in the off-season come back to bite us...

It's also nice to not have a goalie who seems to have mailed it in signed to a $5.9m x 6 year contract

 

[Richard88]

I'd also add that Barron is looking good in the AHL, while Helleson is looking good in the NCAAs. I'm a little more comfortable with the AHL to NHL transition than going from the NCAAs to NHL, so I give Barron an edge on being NHL ready, and worry Helleson might still need a year or two in the AHL. And, with EJ's play being what it is, I'd rather not wait to have his potential replacement in the NHL.

Some would say the opposite, i.e. that Barron is the one who still needs another 1-2 years in the AHL to work on his defense, while Helleson plays a mature defensive game and could slot into the NHL today and not look to out of place.

 

[Richard88]

AVs having the option of both DMen works well. Don't believe EJ has 1.5 years and Toews has 2.5 years will remain with the team. Barron can join the team on the bottom pairing. Helleson is likely another 1-2 years away and transitions to the AHL. Behrens is smaller and partners well with a defensive player. Unless the prospects are traded, the future pairing could get faster, younger and cheaper to extend players like Mack, Kuemper, Bura and Nuke.

Byram - Makar
Girard - Barron
Behrens - Helleson

Neither Behrens or Barron are particularly strong PK'ers, at least not yet, so Avs would be leaning pretty heavily on Byram and Helleson for PK duties in that top 6. Easy to see why some fans prefer to keep Helleson over Barron from a defensive perspective.

 

[Tralfamadore]

AVs having the option of both DMen works well. Don't believe EJ has 1.5 years and Toews has 2.5 years will remain with the team. Barron can join the team on the bottom pairing. Helleson is likely another 1-2 years away and transitions to the AHL. Behrens is smaller and partners well with a defensive player. Unless the prospects are traded, the future pairing could get faster, younger and cheaper to extend players like Mack, Kuemper, Bura and Nuke.

Byram - Makar
Girard - Barron
Behrens - Helleson

The chances of things working out like this are pretty much 0. At least one of them won't even be with the organization by the trade deadline.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

It's also nice to not have a goalie who seems to have mailed it in signed to a $5.9m x 6 year contract

I think Grubs is also negatively impacted by playing on an awful team. But the Avs can't spend 5.9MM for a goalie that is so reliant on team play. 3M yes, 6M nah.

 

[Richard88]

The chances of things working out like this are pretty much 0. At least one of them won't even be with the organization by the trade deadline.

The same thing was said last year about Kaut/Ranta/Bowers, and here we are.

Sakic is very conservative at deadlines. His biggest deadline day trade in the last four years was a 3rd for Brassard + 6th.

 

[Boondock]

Yes, moving that cap would help the Avs, but in spite of the hate he gets from some people, Compher is still an NHL caliber bottom 6er who can score at ~0.4 PPG and fill in up the lineup in a pinch. He's just overpaid by maybe $1m per year, which shouldn't be as much of an issue for the Flyers if they are looking to retool/rebuild. Maybe he doesn't have much value, due to his contract, but I don't see why we need to pay extra for the Flyers to take him.

Don't pay extra, keep Compher and sort out your cap issues some other way. Philly isn't asking for Compher, they would take him if the value is right, but if you want assets in return, you'll need to get those elsewhere.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

Don't pay extra, keep Compher and sort out your cap issues some other way. Philly isn't asking for Compher, they would take him if the value is right, but if you want assets in return, you'll need to get those elsewhere.

Compher is always going to find a place in an NHL line up. He'll be like Graves and get traded to another team for a pick.

 

[Boondock]

The same thing was said last year about Kaut/Ranta/Bowers, and here we are.

Sakic is very conservative at deadlines. His biggest deadline day trade in the last four years was a 3rd for Brassard + 6th.

I would think that the fact at least 2 of those players are worth less now than they were at the TDL last year probably proves the point that prospects get over valued. It would also be an indication that if you have a chance to go all in, do it because player development is not linear and there's a good chance even some of your "top" prospects won't pan out.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

I would think that the fact at least 2 of those players are worth less now than they were at the TDL last year probably proves the point that prospects get over valued. It would also be an indication that if you have a chance to go all in, do it because player development is not linear and there's a good chance even some of your "top" prospects won't pan out.

And Newhook/LOC is worth way more today than last year and if we traded either of them for rentals, we'd be kicking ourselves.

 

[Richard88]

I would think that the fact at least 2 of those players are worth less now than they were at the TDL last year probably proves the point that prospects get over valued. It would also be an indication that if you have a chance to go all in, do it because player development is not linear and there's a good chance even some of your "top" prospects won't pan out.

Ranta isn't worth less than last year. At last years deadline he was still in college, and since then he's: actually been signed (not a guarantee with college players); played in the playoffs; and gotten 10 games to start this year. He has things to iron out of course (especially defensively), but he's still only 21 and if anything playing in the playoffs and making the team out of camp shows that he is valued highly within the Avs organization.

Bowers and Kaut though, yes their values are lower this year due to their waiver exemption ending this offseason. Kaut is doing well in the AHL though fwiw. Bowers has had a stop-start season due to illness and injuries.

 

[Boondock]

And Newhook/LOC is worth way more today than last year and if we traded either of them for rentals, we'd be kicking ourselves.

Newhook had already had his amazing college run so his value was already high. LOC is a 25 year old bottom of the line up player, sure his value has increased from zero to slightly more than that. Examples of prospects not reaching the levels fans expect is far more common than prospects exceeding expectations.

 

[Boondock]

Ranta isn't worth less than last year. At last years deadline he was still in college, and since then he's: actually been signed (not a guarantee with college players); played in the playoffs; and gotten 10 games to start this year. He has things to iron out of course (especially defensively), but he's still only 21 and if anything playing in the playoffs and making the team out of camp shows that he is valued highly within the Avs organization.

Bowers and Kaut though, yes their values are lower this year due to their waiver exemption ending this offseason. Kaut is doing well in the AHL though fwiw. Bowers has had a stop-start season due to illness and injuries.

Hence "at least 2 of the 3"

 

[GirardSpinorama]

Newhook had already had his amazing college run so his value was already high. LOC is a 25 year old bottom of the line up player, sure his value has increased from zero to slightly more than that. Examples of prospects not reaching the levels fans expect is far more common than prospects exceeding expectations.

Newhook's value only got EVEN higher with this good rookie season. But yes, most prospects don't reach fan expectations because those expectations are so high. Examples of rentals not doing anything for a team is very many as well. Its way more common for a rental to end in nothing than for a rental to get a team to the next level. I'd much rather buy in the off-season, while stay conservative at the deadline. This TDL might be more ideal since its a buyer's market, but we shall see.

 

[Alienblood]

Yup, Flyers aren't competitive right now, so we can afford to wait. Especially if it gives us a better player down the line. Projected to be a 2nd line center vs. a bottom 6 talent that's trending more toward bust than anything. JTC isn't a need for us at all. He's a free agent in the offseason, so the Flyers should either just try to flip him immediately or let him walk.

Well duh. Who doesn't want to pay less for something? Basically it's like G costs $1, Barron and a 1st is like .85, what you offer is like .50. I mean what Avs fan wouldn't want to pay .50 instead of .85? It's a no brainer.

JTC isn't a free agent in the offseason

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Don't pay extra, keep Compher and sort out your cap issues some other way. Philly isn't asking for Compher, they would take him if the value is right, but if you want assets in return, you'll need to get those elsewhere.

So, what's the right value? I agree that he's not worth much, but I'm also pretty sure the Avs shouldn't need to pay for another team to take him.