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Speculation: Claude Giroux and the Colorado Avalanche

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AvsCOL

AvsCOL

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Jul 16, 2013
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LegionOfGloom said:
Who do you think you're fooling with this? You don't think Fletcher owes him anything. You think he should say that he will only waive for Colorado and so the Flyers should give him to the Avs for junk.
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I never said anything about the Avs, but nice try. I said Fletcher owes it to him to send him WHERE he wants.
 

LegionOfGloom

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AvsCOL said:
I never said anything about the Avs, but nice try. I said Fletcher owes it to him to send him WHERE he wants.
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Right, like an Avs fan posting in a thread about Giroux to the Avs needs to say it. I'm sure it was just a totally random observation from you.
 
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LegionOfGloom

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AvsCOL said:
You seem irrationally upset about it. You ok?
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You're attempting to read emotion into a post on a message board? I'm just pointing out how silly it is for you to pretend like you are just some uninterested observer concerned only about Fletcher doing the right thing by Giroux.
 
McJedi

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LegionOfGloom said:
You're attempting to read emotion into a post on a message board? I'm just pointing out how silly it is for you to pretend like you are just some uninterested observer concerned only about Fletcher doing the right thing by Giroux.
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Giroux had a full NTC. Fletchers hands are rather tied here to what Giroux will agree to do. Your GM won’t be getting a 10 team list. Fletcher is lucky if he gets more than 3.
 

Dooble08

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IWantSakicAsMyGM said:
It's even nicer to already have the best team in the NHL, so we don't need to overpay for things that don't address any pressing needs. Like I keep saying, go find someone else to pay your price if you don't like it. I'm not going to lose sleep about it.
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Yeah I'm not hung up about it either. I don't care who Giroux goes to, as long as the Flyers get the best possible, or at least a fair, return. Have fun having the best regular season team in the NHL. Doesn't mean jack when the playoffs and the inevitable 2nd round exit happens.
 
JoeSakic13

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skagittarius said:
How did you come to that conclusion? I haven't seen anything that indicates where Giroux would limit his list if he waived.
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Why wouldn’t he? I’m sure if he moves it’s so he can win a cup. So why would he be ok with being traded to a marginally better (or maybe even worse) team? You gotta figure that being on a team after the deadline gives that player a taste of whether or not that destination is a good fit. So the list is more than a temporary change of scenery.
 

FlyguyOX

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Jun 29, 2018
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Buster Dalrymple said:
What would be the point of waiving if not to specifically control where he will go?
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Because there's a human aspect where there's mutual respect and benefits to the team and Giroux in the move.

Flyers will want to do right by G who is a franchise icon and move him to a contender and thus there's no need for any kind of need for limiting control on where he specifically goes. He will express his preference to be near family but highly, highly doubt he's holding Fletcher's feet to the fire on specific teams. G's attitude is that he'll win wherever he goes and he wants best for the Flyers org going forward. Team wants G to win a cup but they're not going to neuter themselves as well. It's not that complicated.
 
John Mandalorian

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FlyguyOX said:
Because there's a human aspect where there's mutual respect and benefits to the team and Giroux in the move.

Flyers will want to do right by G who is a franchise icon and move him to a contender and thus there's no need for any kind of need for limiting control on where he specifically goes. He will express his preference to be near family but highly, highly doubt he's holding Fletcher's feet to the fire on specific teams. G's attitude is that he'll win wherever he goes and he wants best for the Flyers org going forward. Team wants G to win a cup but they're not going to neuter themselves as well. It's not that complicated.
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Apparently it is complicated. And there's a lot of projection in your comment. If he's not going to pro-actively influence where he goes, what's the point of having a full NMC and what's the point of invoking it? If he's truly doing it for a good shot at the cup, he certainly must have some strong preferences in terms of what gives him the best chance.

This scenario you describe is such that he's asking to be traded to anyone so that it helps Philadelphia maximize the return. Sorry but this seems beyond naive.
 
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IWantSakicAsMyGM

IWantSakicAsMyGM

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Dooble08 said:
Yeah I'm not hung up about it either. I don't care who Giroux goes to, as long as the Flyers get the best possible, or at least a fair, return. Have fun having the best regular season team in the NHL. Doesn't mean jack when the playoffs and the inevitable 2nd round exit happens.
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Based on the other Giroux thread, 1st + Kaut + JTC seems like it's currently the top bid. The fact that it's hard to win the Cup, and the Avs likely will lose in the playoffs isn't a compelling reason for me to bid against myself.
 

Dooble08

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IWantSakicAsMyGM said:
Based on the other Giroux thread, 1st + Kaut + JTC seems like it's currently the top bid. The fact that it's hard to win the Cup, and the Avs likely will lose in the playoffs isn't a compelling reason for me to bid against myself.
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Wild fans seemed to be down with Marat and a 1st for G. Other Avs fans have actually offered Barron/Helleson and a 1st. So your offer is 3rd best and a long way off the top 2.
 
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FlyguyOX

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Buster Dalrymple said:
Apparently it is complicated. And there's a lot of projection in your comment. If he's not going to pro-actively influence where he goes, what's the point of having a full NMC and what's the point of invoking it? If he's truly doing it for a good shot at the cup, he certainly must have some strong preferences in terms of what gives him the best chance.

This scenario you describe is such that he's asking to be traded to anyone so that it helps Philadelphia maximize the return. Sorry but this seems beyond naive.
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No it's just adding a human relationship side that doesn't want to be acknowledged for some reason. The scenario as I describe is a scenario of mutual benefit. God forbid it's not a zero-sum trade.
 
IWantSakicAsMyGM

IWantSakicAsMyGM

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Dooble08 said:
Wild fans seemed to be down with Marat and a 1st for G. Other Avs fans have actually offered Barron/Helleson and a 1st. So your offer is 3rd best and a long way off the top 2.
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So, a 1st + 2020 2nd round pick who just signed a contract in the KHL through 23-24 and may never even come over to the NHL? How exactly is that better than a 1st + 2018 1st who is actually in North America + NHL bottom 6er?

I also don't see any Avs fans offering Barron/Helleson who wouldn't be much happier giving up 1st + Kaut + Compher. The only reason to offer better prospects is if there's another team offering more, and that doesn't seem to be the case.
 
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Dooble08

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IWantSakicAsMyGM said:
So, a 1st + 2020 2nd round pick who just signed a contract in the KHL through 23-24 and may never even come over to the NHL? How exactly is that better than a 1st + 2018 1st who is actually in North America + NHL bottom 6er?

I also don't see any Avs fans offering Barron/Helleson who wouldn't be much happier giving up 1st + Kaut + Compher. The only reason to offer better prospects is if there's another team offering more, and that doesn't seem to be the case.
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Yup, Flyers aren't competitive right now, so we can afford to wait. Especially if it gives us a better player down the line. Projected to be a 2nd line center vs. a bottom 6 talent that's trending more toward bust than anything. JTC isn't a need for us at all. He's a free agent in the offseason, so the Flyers should either just try to flip him immediately or let him walk.

Well duh. Who doesn't want to pay less for something? Basically it's like G costs $1, Barron and a 1st is like .85, what you offer is like .50. I mean what Avs fan wouldn't want to pay .50 instead of .85? It's a no brainer.
 
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Pierce Hawthorne

Pierce Hawthorne

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IWantSakicAsMyGM said:
So, a 1st + 2020 2nd round pick who just signed a contract in the KHL through 23-24 and may never even come over to the NHL? How exactly is that better than a 1st + 2018 1st who is actually in North America + NHL bottom 6er?

I also don't see any Avs fans offering Barron/Helleson who wouldn't be much happier giving up 1st + Kaut + Compher. The only reason to offer better prospects is if there's another team offering more, and that doesn't seem to be the case.
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You aren't looking very hard
 
IWantSakicAsMyGM

IWantSakicAsMyGM

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Dooble08 said:
Yup, Flyers aren't competitive right now, so we can afford to wait. Especially if it gives us a better player down the line. Projected to be a 2nd line center vs. a bottom 6 talent that's trending more toward bust than anything. JTC isn't a need for us at all. He's a free agent in the offseason, so the Flyers should either just try to flip him immediately or let him walk.

Well duh. Who doesn't want to pay less for something? Basically it's like G costs $1, Barron and a 1st is like .85, what you offer is like .50. I mean what Avs fan wouldn't want to pay .50 instead of .85? It's a no brainer.
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That's great, but Marat is still a 2020 2nd round pick who has no plans to come to North America anytime soon. Just because he might eventually be useful if everything goes right doesn't mean he has a ton of value in a trade. Maybe Kaut doesn't have much more, but he's at least in the AHL and could compete for a spot on the Flyers NHL roster in training camp. He's just not good enough to make the Avs.

Also, JTC has another year left on his contract, and could plausibly fit on the Flyers 2nd or 3rd lines next year. He's got some value, no matter how many people want to pretend otherwise because he's slightly overpaid.

I also don't see how Barron doesn't have more value than a rental. Go find another apparently NHL ready 20 year old big RHD with top 4 skills and see what he costs. Or, even easier, what would you want for Cameron York, a smaller LHD with top 4 skills? Does a 1st round pick get it done? Or does apparently being NHL ready and a known entity raise his value?
 
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