Speculation: Claude Giroux and the Colorado Avalanche

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Flyer lurker

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Most of the discussion (at least recently) hasn't been focused on Byram.

The real gulf exists with the default assumptions being made on each side. Avs fans are focused on a scenario where they're on an extremely short list of preferred teams. Flyers fans are (often) assuming the list will be longer and therefore invite more competitive offers.

This is what's causing a majority of the talking in circles.
Now let flashback to Bourque trade. At the time everyone assumed Ray was staying on the east coast. And Flyers management was convinced they were acquiring him as they showed the most interest from an east coast team. Colorado convinced Bourque to play for them and the rest is history.
 

Richard88

John 3:16
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2-3 depth folks
at least 1 former Av

We fans want a Mayfield and will get a Geersten
We want a Giroux and get a Stastny or more likely a Nieto
We want a Fleury and get a Pickard
You forgot the customary CBJ connection trade. We'll probably get Anton Forsberg as the 3G as he played for Bednar in the AHL with Columbus' affiliate.

Speaking of which, does Giroux have any ties to Columbus? If he does this trade is as good as done.
 

JoeSakic13

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If Colorado fan wants to tell me Klingberg is a better fit than Giroux I can at least nod my head and say I get it.
But when fans are saying Giroux won't play in a team's top 6 stop the nonsense.
And it why you have to love Brisebois as a gm. He saw how close his team was and overpaid to get players to win. Nolan Foote and pick 11 is an overpayment for Coleman. Do you think TBL fans are crying they didn't keep pick 11 after 2 cup wins? 1 2 4 for Savard is an overpayment. Do you think tbl fans are crying they overpaid winning the cup. If you think Giroux puts Colorado over the top you trade Barron and send him a bottle of Dom as you hold the cup.

I think Avs fans are saying that because our 3rd line is hot garbage and our faceoffs are even worse. So because he’s not gonna bump MacKinnon and it’s probably best not to mess with whatever magic Kadri is finding right now at 2C, you’re hearing a lot more chat of him at 3C.

Personally I think a 3rd line of Nuke - Giroux - O’Connor would be an nasty line to have for the playoffs. However yes, Giroux is a top-6 guy. It’s likely the faceoffs thing that is getting people to say 3rd line.
 
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IWantSakicAsMyGM

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1) If the case you want to make is you rather use the cap for Fluery instead of Giroux I get it. Goalie is number 1 decision in Colorado before March.

2) If you rather go for Klingberg on D instead of Giroux. I get it. Legit decision. Do Avs trust Byram to stay healthy for 4 rounds of playoffs when it is only going to get more physical? Legit question.

3) But Giroux on line 2 makes Colorado makes Colorado that much harder to play against. Giroux will eat up bottom 4 d men playing against him. while Mckinnon faces top pairing. Giroux give you a backup plan for Kadri and considering how many times Kadri went full Kadri you better have a backup plan. We know the NHL is watching Kadri's every move in the playoffs.

Did TBL giving up a 1 2 4 for Savard guarantee a cup? No. Could TBL have won without Savard? very possible. Do you think tbl fans give a flying filp if they overpaid. Not at all. But staying still for Colorado when they are this close is just a foolish plan. col car tbl fla should be all in at deadline. Vegas made their move in Eichel.

The case I'm making is that the Avs have earned 83% of their points since November 1, just won 10 games in a row, 18 straight at home, and haven't lost a game in regulation since December 16th. We don't really need Giroux, or Fleury, or really much of anything else. Our ability to do nothing and still be (arguably) the best team in the NHL means we can be extremely picky about who we acquire and how much we pay. So why not keep our assets for when we actually need them, rather than getting a horrible return on our investment by overpaying in a misguided attempt to maximize what is already a great chance?
 

Starat327

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Most of the discussion (at least recently) hasn't been focused on Byram.

The real gulf exists with the default assumptions being made on each side. Avs fans are focused on a scenario where they're on an extremely short list of preferred teams. Flyers fans are (often) assuming the list will be longer and therefore invite more competitive offers.

This is what's causing a majority of the talking in circles.

Interchange Byram with Newhook, or the infamous "blue chip", it's all the same.

The bolded is what I was getting at, though. It's fine if you want to say "in this scenario, this is a likely outcome" . But people (on either side, for what it's worth) saying "this is what's going to happen" because of some pre conceived assumption are out to lunch.

There's basically no scenario that exists where Fletcher is able to swindle Sakic for a first+blue chip, short of Sakic being told he has to win it this year or he's fired (an unlikely at best scenario). Yes, he's arguably the best rental to hit the market. But his cap and NMC will cause some devaluation. That's just the reality of the situation.

Equally, there's also basically no scenario that the Flyers trade Giroux for a 3rd and the Avs 6th best RHD prospect because "the avs are the only team on Girouxs list". In that unlikely scenario, yes the Flyers probably just keep him and send him off with a heroes farewell at seasons end. It's better optics for the fans (when in the offseason you can say the offers werent there), and it lends itself better to Fletcher not getting bent in future trade scenarios. Though, the Riatolainen deal already sealed that, so maybe it's too late already.
 
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Groo

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The case I'm making is that the Avs have earned 83% of their points since November 1, just won 10 games in a row, 18 straight at home, and haven't lost a game in regulation since December 16th. We don't really need Giroux, or Fleury, or really much of anything else. Our ability to do nothing and still be (arguably) the best team in the NHL means we can be extremely picky about who we acquire and how much we pay. So why not keep our assets for when we actually need them, rather than getting a horrible return on our investment by overpaying in a misguided attempt to maximize what is already a great chance?
Foe one thing most if not all your serious competitors who are just/almost as good as you will not be looking to stay static
It what teams have always/long done.
Must be have been done for a good reason
 

Flyer lurker

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The case I'm making is that the Avs have earned 83% of their points since November 1, just won 10 games in a row, 18 straight at home, and haven't lost a game in regulation since December 16th. We don't really need Giroux, or Fleury, or really much of anything else. Our ability to do nothing and still be (arguably) the best team in the NHL means we can be extremely picky about who we acquire and how much we pay. So why not keep our assets for when we actually need them, rather than getting a horrible return on our investment by overpaying in a misguided attempt to maximize what is already a great chance?
Fair enough.
And we agree to disagree and hopefully all is cool.
I prefer Brisebois style to go all in and worry about cap and age later. Not all teams. But col car tbl and fla i think should go balls to the wall.
 

IWantSakicAsMyGM

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Ray Bourque was not a top 5 man in Boston that year. He was atop 5 d man when he got to Colorado and got his juices flowing.

A down year on an injury plagued year doesn't change Bourque rank as a top 5 defenseman in the NHL. That's one of the perks of being one of the 5 best D in the history of the game.
 

IWantSakicAsMyGM

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Foe one thing most if not all your serious competitors who are just/almost as good as you will not be looking to stay static
It what teams have always/long done.
Must be have been done for a good reason

Every year, teams overpay for rentals and still fail to win the Cup, so it's doesn't seem to be a very effective strategy to me, no matter how long it's been happening. Maybe it's time to try something new, rather than doing the same thing and expecting different results...
 

Groo

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Every year, teams overpay for rentals and still fail to win the Cup, so it's doesn't seem to be a very effective strategy to me, no matter how long it's been happening. Maybe it's time to try something new, rather than doing the same thing and expecting different results...
In the end there can only be one
Try some thing new? Like standing pat because some prospects showed promise so they can't be moved ? Well nobody here's job is on the line.
It did for the 2 time reigning champs
 

IWantSakicAsMyGM

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Fair enough.
And we agree to disagree and hopefully all is cool.
I prefer Brisebois style to go all in and worry about cap and age later. Not all teams. But col car tbl and fla i think should go balls to the wall.

I'm good with going balls to the wall, but only if the goal is to win 5 Cups over the next decade. It's a low probability play, but the reward is so much better than just a single Cup.
 
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Lemonlimey

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There’s such a solid deal here to be made. Would be a dream acquisition for the Avs, and maybe a springtime Philly/Colorado bromance. Giroux was acting kinda weird at the ASG, i wonder if he’ll ultimately prefer not to upend his family with a trade.
 

Richard88

John 3:16
Jun 29, 2019
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If Colorado fan wants to tell me Klingberg is a better fit than Giroux I can at least nod my head and say I get it.
But when fans are saying Giroux won't play in a team's top 6 stop the nonsense.
And it why you have to love Brisebois as a gm. He saw how close his team was and overpaid to get players to win. Nolan Foote and pick 11 is an overpayment for Coleman. Do you think TBL fans are crying they didn't keep pick 11 after 2 cup wins? 1 2 4 for Savard is an overpayment. Do you think tbl fans are crying they overpaid winning the cup. If you think Giroux puts Colorado over the top you trade Barron and send him a bottle of Dom as you hold the cup.
Obviously Giroux would walk into Colorado's top 6 no questions asked. But there is some merit to putting him on the 3rd line given how Colorado's forward group is constructed.

The top line is clearly going to stay together because they're a top 2-3 line in the entire league, if not the outright best line.

The 2nd line has always functioned much better with Nichuskin on it than without, as he does the heavy lifting on the line that Landeskog does on the 1st line. Not to mention that he's pacing 35 goals and 67 points offensively. Burakovsky could be dropped down the lineup (and often does when he's playing poorly), but he's working well with Nichuskin and Kadri. Kadri is also having a career year. So why mess with a good thing by breaking that line up?

Slotting Giroux at 3LW (or 3C) next to Newhook seems like the smartest move, as that would give the Avs three high end scoring lines that would give opposition coaches serious match-up issues. You might say that Giroux's ice-time would suffer from being on the 3rd line, but that likely wouldn't be the case given that he'd certainly still be on the 1st PP unit in the bumper position, and also get frequent situational deployment with the 1st or 2nd lines given how much Bednar likes to mix his lines a lot during games. Not to mention that he'd likely be relied on for key defensive zone RHS draws including on the PK. Overall there would plenty of opportunity for him to get his usual minutes.
 

John Mandalorian

2022 Avs: The First Dance
Nov 29, 2018
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In the end there can only be one
Try some thing new? Like standing pat because some prospects showed promise so they can't be moved ? Well nobody here's job is on the line.
It did for the 2 time reigning champs


You're saying this because you're softening the ground for JT Miller discussions? This is the wrong thread for that.
 

IWantSakicAsMyGM

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If I have heard anything about G requesting a trade, its news to me. Not sure he even has. All this is speculation to this point I think

It's 100% speculation, but with a full NMC in place and the ability to veto any trade, the only logical way he's moved involves a request to go to a contender to try to win a Cup. I don't see any other way for him to be available as a rental this year. Therefore, any trade discussion around Giroux should start with this premise, and go from there.
 

FlyguyOX

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And we think it's a classic scenario of fans around the league not understanding how good Claude Giroux is and has been. Only reason I feel we'll get less is because Fletcher is a moron.

We'll just see how it plays out.
He’s always been underrated by other fanbases. Dude was 4th in points in the 2010 decade and people are over here offering jost and a pick in the range 27-31
 
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FlyguyOX

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It's 100% speculation, but with a full NMC in place and the ability to veto any trade, the only logical way he's moved involves a request to go to a contender to try to win a Cup. I don't see any other way for him to be available as a rental this year. Therefore, any trade discussion around Giroux should start with this premise, and go from there.
Dude he hasn’t requested a trade lmao. The team asked him to waive it. Gah lee
 
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Flyer lurker

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He’s always been underrated by other fanbases. Dude was 4th in points in the 2010 decade and people are over here offering jost and a pick in the range 27-31
At least its better than boston bust 1st rounder and a 2nd lol
 

AvsCOL

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Jul 16, 2013
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And we think it's a classic scenario of fans around the league not understanding how good Claude Giroux is and has been. Only reason I feel we'll get less is because Fletcher is a moron.

We'll just see how it plays out.

I don't think anyone is questioning how good Giroux is, he's amazing. Just think Fletcher owes it to him to send him where he ultimately wants to go.
 

LegionOfGloom

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I don't think anyone is questioning how good Giroux is, he's amazing. Just think Fletcher owes it to him to send him where he ultimately wants to go.
Who do you think you're fooling with this? You don't think Fletcher owes him anything. You think he should say that he will only waive for Colorado and so the Flyers should give him to the Avs for junk.
 
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