Speculation: Claude Giroux and the Colorado Avalanche

[The Merchant]

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

I just have more knowledge of Barron being a former 1st. And any ranking I read in August 2021 writings always had Barron well ahead of Helleson. I am not qualified on Helleson analysis as far as being better prospect than Barron. I would say if you trading the face of your franchise and you choose the non first round pick, you better be right else you will be tarred and feathered.

The entire premise of Giroux being traded is that the face of your franchise and long time captain is requesting a trade to get a shot at the Cup. Are you really going to not trade him if no one is willing to offer enough?

 

[Richard88]

I just have more knowledge of Barron being a former 1st. And any ranking I read in August 2021 writings always had Barron well ahead of Helleson. I am not qualified on Helleson analysis as far as being better prospect than Barron. I would say if you trading the face of your franchise and you choose the non first round pick, you better be right else you will be tarred and feathered.

Around the league I think Barron would likely be the higher rated of the two, by a notable margin, though the gap has probably closed more recently due to Helleson's excellent WJC.

The reason why Avs fans are somewhat split on them is mostly due to the fact that with EJ declining hard there's a clear lack of a big defensive Dman in the Avs top 4, both now and in the future. A big, physical, and defensively-sound RHS top 4 Dman like Helleson (if he pans out) is exactly what the Avs need to replace EJ and pair with Girard or Byram. Helleson plays a more matured defensive game that fits what I just described much better than Barron who still has some wrinkles in his game defensively to iron out even if he does have the higher ceiling overall.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

d) and if Eichel plays in the playoffs you may lose.

e) if our goalies get hurt, we may lose.
f) if our offense fails to show up again, we may lose.
g) if the league decides to make an example out of one of our players again, we may lose
h) if we run into a hot goalie, we may lose.

How does Giroux guarantee we'll win in any of these situations?

 

[Flyer lurker]

The entire premise of Giroux being traded is that the face of your franchise and long time captain is requesting a trade to get a shot at the Cup. Are you really going to not trade him if no one is willing to offer enough?

see ray bourque trade colorado made. Amazing how both side agreed to compensation even when Boston was doing Ray a favor.
for Bourque and Dave An.

1
2
young depth player
27 year old Rolston who had a lot of good years in Boston.

 

[Mac Attack]

If you are flyers fans
a) you want legit prospects. Not 2's. Not 3rd liners making 3.5m who are ufa's in a year.
b) So if it between Avs and Flyers G at 50% retained. Barron has to be in the trade a lick of sense. Byram and Newhook are going nowhere. Flyers don't need the goalie prospect with Hart. Avs don't have a 1 or 2 or 4 this year. So if you flyers fan u are asking Barron and 2023 1. If avs fan maybe you offer Barron Jost and 2023 2. At least I am not laughing my backside off. Not excited about pick 60 or Jost but at least I get the logic.
c) But can we agree when fans offer Compher and a 2 or Boston fans offering busted 1's and a 2 there is no shot in hades flyers fans will say I accept and rightly so.

In a thread filled with some ludicrous statements you sir are thinking in the right ball park for asks. Giroux would be a great add for the Avs especially because if his versatility. He's the guy I want us to go after. I'm also ok with scouring the market for whichever really good player can be had for a bargain because I'm guessing it's a buyer's market and we are balanced enough as a team that we could add anywhere. I just don't want this garbage of some of our fans saying we need to target a bottom six guy. Why not get an actual difference maker with the options available this year?

 

[SeanMoneyHands]

Why does a rebuilding team want a 3.5m player who is ufa in 23? Compher makes zero sense for Flyers.

Almost certain that Compher and Jost are the first two names that Sakic is putting on the table for a UFA rental this year. I don't even think Sakic is willing to give up LOC for a rental this year.

 

[Richard88]

see ray bourque trade colorado made. Amazing how both side agreed to compensation even when Boston was doing Ray a favor.
for Bourque and Dave An.

1
2
young depth player
27 year old Rolston who had a lot of good years in Boston.

If you make Rolston roughly equivalent to Andreychuk in value then it's a 1st + 2nd + young depth player for Bourque. By comparison 1st + Helleson (a 2nd round draft pick who's trended very well) + Jost (young depth player) would be pretty similar.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

see ray bourque trade colorado made. Amazing how both side agreed to compensation even when Boston was doing Ray a favor.
for Bourque and Dave An.

1
2
young depth player
27 year old Rolston who had a lot of good years in Boston.

Comparing Claude Giroux to Ray Bourque....


LMAO big yikes.

 

[Richard88]

Almost certain that Compher and Jost are the first two names that Sakic is putting on the table for a UFA rental this year. I don't even think Sakic is willing to give up LOC for a rental this year.

O'Connor is playing at a 3rd line level and is signed for 3 seasons at a $1.05m caphit (starting in 2022/23). He's exactly the sort of contract a contender needs to have in the bottom 6 to stay competitive. Needless to say he's by far the last bottom 6 player (besides Newhook) who Sakic would have on the table in any trade.

 

[Flyer lurker]

e) if our goalies get hurt, we may lose.
f) if our offense fails to show up again, we may lose.
g) if the league decides to make an example out of one of our players again, we may lose
h) if we run into a hot goalie, we may lose.

How does Giroux guarantee we'll win in any of these situations?

1) If the case you want to make is you rather use the cap for Fluery instead of Giroux I get it. Goalie is number 1 decision in Colorado before March.

2) If you rather go for Klingberg on D instead of Giroux. I get it. Legit decision. Do Avs trust Byram to stay healthy for 4 rounds of playoffs when it is only going to get more physical? Legit question.

3) But Giroux on line 2 makes Colorado makes Colorado that much harder to play against. Giroux will eat up bottom 4 d men playing against him. while Mckinnon faces top pairing. Giroux give you a backup plan for Kadri and considering how many times Kadri went full Kadri you better have a backup plan. We know the NHL is watching Kadri's every move in the playoffs.

Did TBL giving up a 1 2 4 for Savard guarantee a cup? No. Could TBL have won without Savard? very possible. Do you think tbl fans give a flying filp if they overpaid. Not at all. But staying still for Colorado when they are this close is just a foolish plan. col car tbl fla should be all in at deadline. Vegas made their move in Eichel.

 

[Flyer lurker]

Comparing Claude Giroux to Ray Bourque....


LMAO big yikes.

Giroux is 5 years younger good point.

 

[Flyer lurker]

If you make Rolston roughly equivalent to Andreychuk in value then it's a 1st + 2nd + young depth player for Bourque. By comparison 1st + Helleson (a 2nd round draft pick who's trended very well) + Jost (young depth player) would be pretty similar.

Rolston was 27 and much better than old Andy. agree to disagree on that one.

 

[FlyerFire]

The entire premise of Giroux being traded is that the face of your franchise and long time captain is requesting a trade to get a shot at the Cup. Are you really going to not trade him if no one is willing to offer enough?

If I have heard anything about G requesting a trade, its news to me. Not sure he even has. All this is speculation to this point I think

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Giroux is 5 years younger good point.

And Ray Bourque finished 2nd in Norris voting in 2001 foe Colorado.


It's an embarrassing take to compare Giroux to one of the best Defenders of all time. Just embarrassing yourself at this point.

 

[Flyer lurker]

And Ray Bourque finished 2nd in Norris voting in 2001 foe Colorado.


It's an embarrassing take to compare Giroux to one of the best Defenders of all time. Just embarrassing yourself at this point.

Do people not remember the situation?
Bourque was fine in Boston but showing slippage. Being traded to Colorado gave Bourque a huge boost.
Just embarrassing yourself how little you remember about the trade.

 

[AvsCOL]

I can't help but think Flyers fans are going to be seriously disappointed in the return. I see a lot of blue chip prospects + 1st round picks going around. Can't see it.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

see ray bourque trade colorado made. Amazing how both side agreed to compensation even when Boston was doing Ray a favor.
for Bourque and Dave An.

1
2
young depth player
27 year old Rolston who had a lot of good years in Boston.

That was back in the LaCroix era when the Avs didn't know what to do with draft picks or prospects, so keeping them had little value and trading them was the only rational choice. Now, we actually have amateur scouts and a functioning prospect pool, so there's no reason to follow that same line of thinking.

And Bourque was still arguably a top 5 D in the NHL, even at that age, and walked onto our top pairing. Giroux might not even be in our top 6, given how the team is currently playing.

Also, the return was 1st + Grenier (1999 2nd rounder) + Pahlsson (1996 7th rounder) + Rolston (who was going to his third team that season). Not exactly a great return for a top 5 D + a veteran forward.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

I can't help but think Flyers fans are going to be seriously disappointed in the return. I see a lot of blue chip prospects + 1st round picks going around. Can't see it.

And we think it's a classic scenario of fans around the league not understanding how good Claude Giroux is and has been. Only reason I feel we'll get less is because Fletcher is a moron.

We'll just see how it plays out.

 

[Flyer lurker]

That was back in the LaCroix era when the Avs didn't know what to do with draft picks or prospects, so keeping them had little value and trading them was the only rational choice. Now, we actually have amateur scouts and a functioning prospect pool, so there's no reason to follow that same line of thinking.

And Bourque was still arguably a top 5 D in the NHL, even at that age, and walked onto our top pairing. Giroux might not even be in our top 6, given how the team is currently playing.

Also, the return was 1st + Grenier (1999 2nd rounder) + Pahlsson (1996 7th rounder) + Rolston (who was going to his third team that season). Not exactly a great return for a top 5 D + a veteran forward.

Ray Bourque was not a top 5 man in Boston that year. He was atop 5 d man when he got to Colorado and got his juices flowing.

 

[Richard88]

Rolston was 27 and much better than old Andy. agree to disagree on that one.

I actually agree with you. I was being pretty loose in the comparison there.

 

[captainpaxil]

I have a country mile between Barron and helleson. Barron is a piece we target helleson is an additional piece that's interesting if we have to take back salary
If this deal were to happen I'd rank them
York
Barron
Zamula
Andrae
Helleson
Hogberg

 

[Starat327]

26 pages in and we still can't come to the realization that there's an entire ocean of value between 1st+Byram+ and "you'll take what we give you and you'll like it."

What a sad state of affairs.

 

[Flyer lurker]

If Colorado fan wants to tell me Klingberg is a better fit than Giroux I can at least nod my head and say I get it.
But when fans are saying Giroux won't play in a team's top 6 stop the nonsense.
And it why you have to love Brisebois as a gm. He saw how close his team was and overpaid to get players to win. Nolan Foote and pick 11 is an overpayment for Coleman. Do you think TBL fans are crying they didn't keep pick 11 after 2 cup wins? 1 2 4 for Savard is an overpayment. Do you think tbl fans are crying they overpaid winning the cup. If you think Giroux puts Colorado over the top you trade Barron and send him a bottle of Dom as you hold the cup.

 

[John Mandalorian]

26 pages in and we still can't come to the realization that there's an entire ocean of value between 1st+Byram+ and "you'll take what we give you and you'll like it."

What a sad state of affairs.

Most of the discussion (at least recently) hasn't been focused on Byram.

The real gulf exists with the default assumptions being made on each side. Avs fans are focused on a scenario where they're on an extremely short list of preferred teams. Flyers fans are (often) assuming the list will be longer and therefore invite more competitive offers.

This is what's causing a majority of the talking in circles.