Speculation: Claude Giroux and the Colorado Avalanche

[TheKingPin]

Never? Still doesn't mean that he'll get a 1st + prospect. Fletcher literally just said that he'll accomodate Giroux, which means that he'll take what he can get from the team Giroux chooses... and this is the GM who effectively traded a 1st + 2 2nd's + Gostisbehere + Hagg (am I missing something?) for 2 years of Rasmus Ristolainen

You are missing something. It’s for ONE year of Risto. And they want to sign him but he doesn’t want to!

 

[AvsGuy]

This is a full on Fletcher move. Bad value for giroux and the best prospect is going Colorado's way.

1st and Barron is the deal and then sweeteners for cap

I think some would prefer to trade Barron over Helleson, so, yeah I'm fine with that also

I was under the impression Frost was not having a great year so far

Tell me you're an avs fan without telling me you're an avs fan.

I know, my username is pretty ambiguous right

 

[JoemAvs]

I see two major oversights.
G is a great PKer. He has not been used as heavily at certain times bc of how much he is needed elsewhere. He is a top face off man on his side as well.
You don’t win a Cup by just beating west teams. You’ll have to beat the top East team as well. Over that, it’s not just Vegas to beat. Vegas just added a player that rivals and may be better than any on the Avs. They have the ability to shutdown an entire top line. Nevermind the fact that the Avs have lost to a wide variety of west teams over the years well short of the Stanley cup.
I actually don’t exactly see an easy path for the Avs. I think they are great and should go far, but I think you are underplaying things a lot. I could see the flames giving the Avs a run in the first round alone.
I think G offers a lot of balls to be honest. He guts it out and clutch. Something any team needs if there is skill with it but the Avs falling short in some big games seem more so.
And again the Avs are not going to be the same team after this year.

I will conceed that when I think about Giroux, I am not thinking of him as a PK specialist. I know that he is good at it but I was not aware that Flyers fans are so high on his abilities in that regard.

But still. You don't move a ton of assets for Giroux just to fix your PK. Makes way more sense to move a 3rd + a decent prospect for a 3rd/4th liner to adress that issue.

I disagree on the other thing. Before you can win a Stanley Cup, you need to first get there. And winning Stanley Cups is incredibly difficult.
Its way more realistic that you can win a cup if you make it to the Finals 2-3 times (or atleast have a couple of very deep runs) over a longer timeframe than it is by going all-in on one cup run.

Especially considering that even if you go all-in, you are not necessarily a clear favorite against the likes of Tampa (Avs would never be favorites against their curent roster IMO), Carolina, Vegas or Florida. So why would you do it instead of trying to be the best team in the West for the next 4-6 years instead?

At the end of the day a lot of things have to go your way no matter how good your roster looks. Stacking your team for one season only makes sense if this might be your only or last shot IMO or if you can afford to (aka not pay a heavy price in the future for it). The Avs just don't fit that bill at all IMO. They look like they should be in very good shape in the West in the near future but if they mortgage too much this year, they might be left without a real second line next season and no goaltender and no assets to really do anything about that. That could immediately drop them down from the elite in the West.

 

[TheKingPin]

I will conceed that when I think about Giroux, I am not thinking of him as a PK specialist. I know that he is good at it but I was not aware that Flyers fans are so high on his abilities in that regard.

But still. You don't move a ton of assets for Giroux just to fix your PK. Makes way more sense to move a 3rd + a decent prospect for a 3rd/4th liner to adress that issue.

I disagree on the other thing. Before you can win a Stanley Cup, you need to first get there. And winning Stanley Cups is incredibly difficult.
Its way more realistic that you can win a cup if you make it to the Finals 2-3 times (or atleast have a couple of very deep runs) over a longer timeframe than it is by going all-in on one cup run.

Especially considering that even if you go all-in, you are not necessarily a clear favorite against the likes of Tampa (Avs would never be favorites against their curent roster IMO), Carolina, Vegas or Florida. So why would you do it instead of trying to be the best team in the West for the next 4-6 years instead?

At the end of the day a lot of things have to go your way no matter how good your roster looks. Stacking your team for one season only makes sense if this might be your only or last shot IMO or if you can afford to (aka not pay a heavy price in the future for it). The Avs just don't fit that bill at all IMO. They look like they should be in very good shape in the West in the near future but if they mortgage too much this year, they might be left without a real second line next season and no goaltender and no assets to really do anything about that. That could immediately drop them down from the elite in the West.

I usually am not about going all in for the deadline. But Giroux is not the usual player available. Would it change your mind if Vegas added him? They are already added Eichel when they were already a favorite and beat the Avs. They did it to beat the lightening, not not the Avs. The lightening always add deadline players.
It used to be the better 2nd line won in the playoffs. Now it’s the better 3rd line.

 

[Hasbro]

You are missing something. It’s for ONE year of Risto. And they want to sign him but he doesn’t want to!

 

[Richard88]

Right....but at the same time G isn't handcuffing the Flyers either. Nobody here believes that he's going to say "I'm only going to play for Team A." It's more likely that he'll give a list of teams that he'd be willing to go to. Then it's up to the Flyers to extract the best return for Giroux.

I'd also think that Sakic will pay more because (for example) I think he'd rather see Giroux on the Avs instead of him going to the Blues instead.

The only team that Giroux could go to in the west that would worry Sakic is Vegas.

 

[Dooble08]

You are missing something. It’s for ONE year of Risto. And they want to sign him but he doesn’t want to!

Couldn't be a bigger fan of Risto right now. Hopefully he forces their hand to trade him somewhere else.

 

[Richard88]

Compher with a goal and fight last night. Better buy in while he’s getting hot Fletch!

JTC FOMO NFT.

Chicago would be nuts to not buy low on him. He gets a Gordie Howe hattrick every time he plays in Chicago Infront of family and friends

 

[Dooble08]

The only team that Giroux could go to in the west that would worry Sakic is Vegas.

That would be fun to watch. Vegas should keep Eichel on LTIR until the playoffs and trade for Giroux. I hope G has Vegas on his trade list.

 

[flyerslducks]

I see two major oversights.
G is a great PKer. He has not been used as heavily at certain times bc of how much he is needed elsewhere. He is a top face off man on his side as well.
You don’t win a Cup by just beating west teams. You’ll have to beat the top East team as well. Over that, it’s not just Vegas to beat. Vegas just added a player that rivals and may be better than any on the Avs. They have the ability to shutdown an entire top line. Nevermind the fact that the Avs have lost to a wide variety of west teams over the years well short of the Stanley cup.
I actually don’t exactly see an easy path for the Avs. I think they are great and should go far, but I think you are underplaying things a lot. I could see the flames giving the Avs a run in the first round alone.
I think G offers a lot of balls to be honest. He guts it out and clutch. Something any team needs if there is skill with it but the Avs falling short in some big games seem more so.
And again the Avs are not going to be the same team after this year.

Ya I don’t get this whole west sucks thing. Vegas, blues, minny, Calgary..heck even Dallas and edm are really good when they are on. Dallas could surprise

and imagine if giroux goes to minny, Calgary, blues! He instantly makes them a shit ton better which makes it even harder for the avs

 

[Richard88]

Ya I don’t get this whole west sucks thing. Vegas, blues, minny, Calgary..heck even Dallas and edm are really good when they are on. Dallas could surprise

and imagine if giroux goes to minny, Calgary, blues! He instantly makes them a shit ton better which makes it even harder for the avs

Why would Giroux want to go to teams that "make it harder" for the Avs, instead of just joining the Avs powerhouse to give himself the best shot at a cup he can get?

 

[flyerslducks]

Why would Giroux want to go to teams that "make it harder" for the Avs, instead of just joining the Avs powerhouse to give himself the best shot at a cup he can get?

Never said he would do that to make it harder for the avs lol. If the avs don’t pay up, and g is willing to go to the other teams, I was simply stating it could be a big blow to the avs chances (possibly).

as stated earlier, this isn’t the normal rental…g is a f***ing stud. When he is playing the flyers numbers are insane. When he isn’t on the ice, the flyers are one of the worst teams. Not saying he should command newhook but he should go for a 1st and a nice prospect.

 

[TheKingPin]

It’s an absolute motherf***er. Then you learn Ghost is pacing for 50 pts and 14 goals!

 

[Richard88]

Never said he would do that to make it harder for the avs lol. If the avs don’t pay up, and g is willing to go to the other teams, I was simply stating it could be a big blow to the avs chances (possibly).

as stated earlier, this isn’t the normal rental…g is a f***ing stud. When he is playing the flyers numbers are insane. When he isn’t on the ice, the flyers are one of the worst teams. Not saying he should command newhook but he should go for a 1st and a nice prospect.

I'm sure Sakic isn't losing sleep over it. I mean, things could be worse. There could for example be an elite conspiracy to enslave the world and use so-called alien technology to deceive everyone into trusting a one world leader, but let's keep things in perspective now. Colorado will be fine even without Giroux.

 

[JoemAvs]

Ya I don’t get this whole west sucks thing. Vegas, blues, minny, Calgary..heck even Dallas and edm are really good when they are on. Dallas could surprise

and imagine if giroux goes to minny, Calgary, blues! He instantly makes them a shit ton better which makes it even harder for the avs

Congratulations. You just figured out that winning the Stanley Cup is damn hard.
Even if the Avs trade all of their prospects and the next 10 1st rounders to upgrade at the deadline, it is still more likely that they wouldn't win the Stanley Cup this season than that they would.

The West especially in comparison to the East blows right now. Certainly teams like Minny (who will be dangerous this year but will probably get hit very hard by their recapture penalties afterwards for a few years), STL, Dallas, WPG certainly could surprise and beat the Avs. But that can happen anyways. Whether anyone trades for Giroux or not. But the Avs should win against these teams given what we know right now already.

The only teams the Avs should be "scared" right now in the West is Vegas. Everyone else they should be favored to beat regardless of what happens at the deadline.
Getting Giroux only does so much for a team. It still doesn't meant that you can't lose the goaltending duel and get bounced by an "underdog". It still does not mean that you will be resistant to untimely injuries or suspensions (like what happens to the Avs the last 2 years). Or that you won't get bounced by just straight up being unlucky.

I think the West right now looks rather weak for the next few years and the Avs should atleast manage to stay in the Elite group of the conference for these years and should win the conference at least 1-2 times due to that. If they don't, it would have been a failure and nothing to do with Sakic but with the players not stepping up enough/not being able to stay healthy enough in the playoffs.

I don't think there is anything the Avs can do to make them a favorite against Tampa in a possible Stanley Cup matchup this season. I also don't think they can make them the clear favorite against teams like Carolina, Florida or Vegas even if they get Giroux. All of these would be hard fought series that could go either way over 7 games.
IMO the Avs are already there. They are among the elite that can win a cup if things go right for them. Staying in that group of teams for a few years is way more important than trying to all-in for one run. Thats why I want nothing to do with giving up major asset at the deadline after already spending a ton on Kuemper and with all of our 2nd line plus our goaltender hitting UFA in the summer.

 

[flyerslducks]

I'm sure Sakic isn't losing sleep over it. I mean, things could be worse. There could for example be an elite conspiracy to enslave the world and use so-called alien technology to deceive everyone into trusting a one world leader, but let's keep things in perspective now. Colorado will be fine even without Giroux.

No shit they would. They’re an insane team. My point still stands that if the offer is below par then we move on.

 

[Dooble08]

I'm sure Sakic isn't losing sleep over it. I mean, things could be worse. There could for example be an elite conspiracy to enslave the world and use so-called alien technology to deceive everyone into trusting a one world leader, but let's keep things in perspective now. Colorado will be fine even without Giroux.

Correct, Colorado will be fine without Giroux. Probably good enough to get knocked out by Vegas or Tampa or a team like that. Or maybe the other western conference team that may in fact pay the 1st + prospect that is required to get a player of Giroux's caliber.

 

[flyerslducks]

Congratulations. You just figured out that winning the Stanley Cup is damn hard.
Even if the Avs trade all of their prospects and the next 10 1st rounders to upgrade at the deadline, it is still more likely that they wouldn't win the Stanley Cup this season than that they would.

The West especially in comparison to the East blows right now. Certainly teams like Minny (who will be dangerous this year but will probably get hit very hard by their recapture penalties afterwards for a few years), STL, Dallas, WPG certainly could surprise and beat the Avs. But that can happen anyways. Whether anyone trades for Giroux or not. But the Avs should win against these teams given what we know right now already.

The only teams the Avs should be "scared" right now in the West is Vegas. Everyone else they should be favored to beat regardless of what happens at the deadline.
Getting Giroux only does so much for a team. It still doesn't meant that you can't lose the goaltending duel and get bounced by an "underdog". It still does not mean that you will be resistant to untimely injuries or suspensions (like what happens to the Avs the last 2 years). Or that you won't get bounced by just straight up being unlucky.

I think the West right now looks rather weak for the next few years and the Avs should atleast manage to stay in the Elite group of the conference for these years and should win the conference at least 1-2 times due to that. If they don't, it would have been a failure and nothing to do with Sakic but with the players not stepping up enough/not being able to stay healthy enough in the playoffs.

I don't think there is anything the Avs can do to make them a favorite against Tampa in a possible Stanley Cup matchup this season. I also don't think they can make them the clear favorite against teams like Carolina, Florida or Vegas even if they get Giroux. All of these would be hard fought series that could go either way over 7 games.
IMO the Avs are already there. They are among the elite that can win a cup if things go right for them. Staying in that group of teams for a few years is way more important than trying to all-in for one run. Thats why I want nothing to do with giving up major asset at the deadline after already spending a ton on Kuemper and with all of our 2nd line plus our goaltender hitting UFA in the summer.

I agree. Tbh I think the avs should just get Braun for a 3rd or something like that. I think that fits ur team better.

 

[Richard88]

I agree. Tbh I think the avs should just get Braun for a 3rd or something like that. I think that fits ur team better.

Braun for a 3rd and a mid-level prospect for a decent bottom 6 PK'ing forward sounds about right for Sakic at the deadline.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Braun for a 3rd and a mid-level prospect for a decent bottom 6 PK'ing forward sounds about right for Sakic at the deadline.

And maybe an insurance goalie for a late pick (or off waivers).

 

[Richard88]

And maybe an insurance goalie for a late pick (or off waivers).

Hopefully the players acquired actually have a positive impact this time around, unlike Nemeth and Söderberg...

 

[Nihiliste]

This thread is honestly making me wish G goes to any other team but the Avs. Plenty of low balling and arrogance demonstrated by Avs fans here.

Don’t worry, he won’t go to the Avs. Sakic is almost never the highest bidder except for his panic move with Kuemper

 

[captainpaxil]

I think some would prefer to trade Barron over Helleson, so, yeah I'm fine with that also

I was under the impression Frost was not having a great year so far



I know, my username is pretty ambiguous right

I have helleson well below Barron and ollauson so much so that he'd be in the sweetener category. A b level guy for sure. Ollauson doesn't suit a need for Philly so my focus has been on Barron. I feel helleson and Barron might hurt avs organizational depth too much but if ollauson we're the guy hello son could go on top.

 

[Perennial]

I find it hard to envision a team parting with a prospect like Byram or Newhook in a deal for Giroux...

If he's dealt, I suspect the return will be similar to what the Sabres received in the Hall to Boston deal... with the pick being a 1st rather than a 2nd

 

[John Mandalorian]

No shit they would. They’re an insane team. My point still stands that if the offer is below par then we move on.

Move on to what...as if Giroux doesn’t have a say in this.

And if Philadelphia doesn’t trade Giroux and he walks for nothing, Flyers fans would be all over CF for not even getting a first.

Now/before, a first isn’t enough. After CG walks for nothing, a first alone seems pretty good.