Speculation: Claude Giroux and the Colorado Avalanche

[BrindamoursNose]

Not all that much honestly, especially because Giroux usually plays with 2 of the 3 other top forwards on the Flyers. It says to me he's not good enough to lead a top line on a contender, if the last decade wasn't already proof enough. But he can still probably help the second line for a quality team.

Do you know who Giroux's linemates are? And how his numbers fluctuate depending on his linemates?

If you don't know the answer to both of those questions, then you're talking out of your butt.

 

[AvsGuy]

Pass.

That's a pretty good deal, actually. I'm down with that.

Main reason I think this would appeal to Philly is Drew Helleson, he is looking like a really good prospect and is set to be Cam York's D partner for USA

 

[McJedi]

That's like .50 on the dollar. Protection doesn't bother me, retaining on Giroux doesn't bother me, getting JTC doesn't bother me, not getting Byram or Newhook doesn't bother me. The prospect should be one of Helleson, Barron, or Olausson.

If the difference is Helleson vs Behrens, that may be where a deal happens.
Sakic will try to pay less but that may be the cost. You won’t get 2 1sts for 20 games of Giroux. That’s 115 cents on the dollar. Philly doesn’t have that kind of leverage.

2023 1st top 2 protected + JTC + Helleson for Giroux at 50%.

as an Avs fan, I swallow hard and push the yes button.

 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

Really? I dont think I'd be too pumped about this return. Couple meh prospects (am I underrating these guys...dont think Kaut has done much of anything and Helleson is ok?), a late 1st, and a mediocre cap dump. And maybe a late 2nd in a few years. Plus we are giving up a young center when we already have center depth issues. Not a fan.

I don't think Helleson is a 'meh' prospect. He's a fine right handed defenseman with decent skill and some size to boot. I think Kaut needs a change of scenery and he'll get boatloads of time in Philadelphia. Would I love Olausson? Of course, but Colorado isn't moving him. The Flyers might get a late 1st or if the deal, but there's value in that.

Fact is, Giroux is 34 years old and a soon to be UFA. If he agreed to a contract extension, you might get an Olausson in the deal.

I don't like the idea of giving up Frost, but you know Sakic will want some youth back in any deal.

 

[Richard88]

That's like .50 on the dollar. Protection doesn't bother me, retaining on Giroux doesn't bother me, getting JTC doesn't bother me, not getting Byram or Newhook doesn't bother me. The prospect should be one of Helleson, Barron, or Olausson.

Would you care to list the rentals in the last 3 seasons that have involved a 1st + top prospect?

 

[Richard88]

Aside from Colorado, I am quite sure the other Western Contenders will have interest along with teams in the East like Tampa, Florida, and Carolina.

If I'm Giroux I'd only be moving to chase a cup, and that being the case the obvious decision is to go to a team that has the best possible chance of making the final (eg. Vegas or Colorado), as opposed to teams that will have to battle it out with Florida/Tampa/Toronto just to get out of the 1st round.

 

[Adam Warlock]

Flyers should demand Newhook be in the trade and the Avs should happily include him bc theyre getting Claude f***ing Giroux in the deal.

I get that hes not the type of prospect you give up for a rental but Giroux is not your normal rental.

Avs fans are absolutely going to love G. Nothing you give up is going to seem like too much after you see what this guy can do for your team.

 

[John Johnson]

Flyers should demand Newhook be in the trade and the Avs should happily include him bc theyre getting Claude f***ing Giroux in the deal.

I get that hes not the type of prospect you give up for a rental but Giroux is not your normal rental.

Avs fans are absolutely going to love G. Nothing you give up is going to seem like too much after you see what this guy can do for your team.

Avs have too many elite and generational players and prospects. Best they can do is Girard plus a 2nd.

 

[Richard88]

Avs have too many elite and generational players and prospects. Best they can do is Girard plus a 2nd.

Haven't seen anyone offering Girard for Giroux, that would be silly.

 

[HFpapi]

Didn’t read the full thread so apologies if I’m repeating similar sentiments, but I feel like with Philly being well out of a playoff spot, Giroux being a UFA unlikely to resign, and having a NMC, Flyers options are to take something or take nothing.

The only way they choose the latter is if the offers are insultingly bad and they want to save face. I feel like Colorado offering something like Barron + 1st is almost kind of a courtesy that is palpable for both teams.

The idea of the Flyers holding out for Newhook is absurd.

 

[Dooble08]

Would you care to list the rentals in the last 3 seasons that have involved a 1st + top prospect?

Never asked for Newhook or Byram.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Flyers should demand Newhook be in the trade and the Avs should happily include him bc theyre getting Claude f***ing Giroux in the deal.

I get that hes not the type of prospect you give up for a rental but Giroux is not your normal rental.

Avs fans are absolutely going to love G. Nothing you give up is going to seem like too much after you see what this guy can do for your team.

Yeah, that isn't true and isn't happening.


Not a chance in hell are we trading Newhook for any rental of any kind.

 

[captainpaxil]

F Claude Giroux (50% retained)
F Morgan Frost




F JT Compher
F Martin Kaut
D Drew Helleson
1st round draft pick in 2023 (Colorado has the option to defer to 2024)
Conditional 2nd round pick in 2024 (If Colorado reaches the SCF in 2022 and Giroux plays at least 1/2 their playoff games)

This is a full on Fletcher move. Bad value for giroux and the best prospect is going Colorado's way.

1st and Barron is the deal and then sweeteners for cap

 

[BritainStix]

F Claude Giroux (50% retained)
F Morgan Frost




F JT Compher
F Martin Kaut
D Drew Helleson
1st round draft pick in 2023 (Colorado has the option to defer to 2024)
Conditional 2nd round pick in 2024 (If Colorado reaches the SCF in 2022 and Giroux plays at least 1/2 their playoff games)

Tell me you're an avs fan without telling me you're an avs fan.

Would you care to list the rentals in the last 3 seasons that have involved a 1st + top prospect?

When was the last time the 4th highest scorer over the last 15 years went as a rental?

 

[Richard88]

When was the last time the 4th highest scorer over the last 15 years went as a rental?

Never? Still doesn't mean that he'll get a 1st + prospect. Fletcher literally just said that he'll accomodate Giroux, which means that he'll take what he can get from the team Giroux chooses... and this is the GM who effectively traded a 1st + 2 2nd's + Gostisbehere + Hagg (am I missing something?) for 2 years of Rasmus Ristolainen

 

[JoemAvs]

Aren’t those some reasons to make a big move? The team is set to down grade next year. Mackinnon s deal is up soon. I know he said he will take a discount, but who knows with another early exit. I am with you on not “going for it” but the Avs seem to have a little more motivation than the typical contender.

Not at all.
The Avs are already scoring like crazy and adding Giroux won't fix a single flaw that this team has (injuries, goaltending, PK /defensive play of our forwards and potentially a lack of quality on the backend if Byram does not return as the main ones IMO).

Also what Avs fans and others are overlooking is IMO that the West aside from Vegas is in a very bad state. With the Avs core players all being still rather young, it is potentially theirs to win for quite some time if they can get past Vegas. Atleast they should win it a few times in the next 5-6 years if they play their cards right (aka not doing silly stuff at the deadline for example).
Minnesota is doomed after this season due to the recapture for a few years, STL is only getting older and worse, the Canadian teams look like a mess right now (even though Jets and maybe Edmonton might get it together in the next few years but als not likely given the history), Dallas looks old and on their last legs, Vancouver also is in limbo.
The only semi rising teams in the West right that look like a threat down the line are the Kings and maybe the Ducks. And the Kings have Doughty and Kopitar who are also not getting younger.

So why would the Avs push all the chips in the middle at all costs?
Yeah they will probably not get much better in the future as a roster. But they don't have to and there is far from a guarantee that they will be able to overcome Vegas or the multiple juggernauts in the East even if you sacrifice your future for this one run.
So why do it?

 

[Fight4yourRight]

This thread is honestly making me wish G goes to any other team but the Avs. Plenty of low balling and arrogance demonstrated by Avs fans here.

 

[glovesave_35]

I don't know anything about specifics of either team's situation, but on the face of it, Claude Giroux in an Avs uniform makes sense to me.

 

[Richard88]

Not at all.
The Avs are already scoring like crazy and adding Giroux won't fix a single flaw that this team has (injuries, goaltending, PK /defensive play of our forwards and potentially a lack of quality on the backend if Byram does not return as the main ones IMO).

Also what Avs fans and others are overlooking is IMO that the West aside from Vegas is in a very bad state. With the Avs core players all being still rather young, it is potentially theirs to win for quite some time if they can get past Vegas. Atleast they should win it a few times in the next 5-6 years if they play their cards right (aka not doing silly stuff at the deadline for example).
Minnesota is doomed after this season due to the recapture for a few years, STL is only getting older and worse, the Canadian teams look like a mess right now (even though Jets and maybe Edmonton might get it together in the next few years but als not likely given the history), Dallas looks old and on their last legs, Vancouver also is in limbo.
The only semi rising teams in the West right that look like a threat down the line are the Kings and maybe the Ducks. And the Kings have Doughty and Kopitar who are also not getting younger.

So why would the Avs push all the chips in the middle at all costs?
Yeah they will probably not get much better in the future as a roster. But they don't have to and there is far from a guarantee that they will be able to overcome Vegas or the multiple juggernauts in the East even if you sacrifice your future for this one run.
So why do it?

That bolded part is a bit of an exaggeration, at best. Of course Giroux would fix some flaws, to say otherwise is silly.

Avs don't need more scoring, but the 3rd line could absolutely be beefed up a bit. Pushing Nichuskin down to the 3rd line would do a lot to solidify the bottom 6 which has been a bit hit-and-miss at times this season.

Newhook is still a playoff-untested rookie, and Kadri is forever in the DOPS black book. Having another capable top 6 center/forward who can win draws (especially RHS draws) would absolutely fill a need. The team is awful at faceoffs (especially the guys relied on to kill penalties and take defensive draws. Looking at you Compher and Jost).

Giroux is also a great PK'er so could help in that regard as well if Bednar wanted to use him in that capacity. And being a RHS he would slot into the bumper spot on PP1 which would likely improve with him on it in that position.

I'm not saying that he would fix all the problems the Avs have, but he'd definitely make the team considerably better, deeper, and harder to beat. I'm also not really concerned about how good this team is right now in the regular season, but rather, how they match up against teams like Vegas, Tampa, Florida, Carolina when push comes to shove.

I do think you've made some very valid points in the rest of your post though. The West is clearly weak, and several teams are trending downwards while the Avs do still have a relatively young core with a tonne of cap flexibility moving forward.

 

[flyerslducks]

Not at all.
The Avs are already scoring like crazy and adding Giroux won't fix a single flaw that this team has (injuries, goaltending, PK /defensive play of our forwards and potentially a lack of quality on the backend if Byram does not return as the main ones IMO).

Also what Avs fans and others are overlooking is IMO that the West aside from Vegas is in a very bad state. With the Avs core players all being still rather young, it is potentially theirs to win for quite some time if they can get past Vegas. Atleast they should win it a few times in the next 5-6 years if they play their cards right (aka not doing silly stuff at the deadline for example).
Minnesota is doomed after this season due to the recapture for a few years, STL is only getting older and worse, the Canadian teams look like a mess right now (even though Jets and maybe Edmonton might get it together in the next few years but als not likely given the history), Dallas looks old and on their last legs, Vancouver also is in limbo.
The only semi rising teams in the West right that look like a threat down the line are the Kings and maybe the Ducks. And the Kings have Doughty and Kopitar who are also not getting younger.

So why would the Avs push all the chips in the middle at all costs?
Yeah they will probably not get much better in the future as a roster. But they don't have to and there is far from a guarantee that they will be able to overcome Vegas or the multiple juggernauts in the East even if you sacrifice your future for this one run.
So why do it?

G can play pk and will easily be ur best faceoff man

 

[Patagonia]

This thread is honestly making me wish G goes to any other team but the Avs. Plenty of low balling and arrogance demonstrated by Avs fans here.

G would be an excellent addition, with his NMC don’t expect the Flyers to get a large return.

Sakic is well aware Flyers have limited options. AVs are likely signing another G or LHD DMan. Kessal could be another option ousting little in adding more firepower. Don’t believe Sakic would be as desperate in moving another 1st and wouldn’t include a dump ie Compher.

 

[Dooble08]

Never? Still doesn't mean that he'll get a 1st + prospect. Fletcher literally just said that he'll accomodate Giroux, which means that he'll take what he can get from the team Giroux chooses... and this is the GM who effectively traded a 1st + 2 2nd's + Gostisbehere + Hagg (am I missing something?) for 2 years of Rasmus Ristolainen

Right....but at the same time G isn't handcuffing the Flyers either. Nobody here believes that he's going to say "I'm only going to play for Team A." It's more likely that he'll give a list of teams that he'd be willing to go to. Then it's up to the Flyers to extract the best return for Giroux.

I'd also think that Sakic will pay more because (for example) I think he'd rather see Giroux on the Avs instead of him going to the Blues instead.

 

[Hasbro]

Compher with a goal and fight last night. Better buy in while he’s getting hot Fletch!

JTC FOMO NFT.

 

[JoemAvs]

G can play pk and will easily be ur best faceoff man

That bolded part is a bit of an exaggeration, at best. Of course Giroux would fix some flaws, to say otherwise is silly.

Avs don't need more scoring, but the 3rd line could absolutely be beefed up a bit. Pushing Nichuskin down to the 3rd line would do a lot to solidify the bottom 6 which has been a bit hit-and-miss at times this season.

Newhook is still a playoff-untested rookie, and Kadri is forever in the DOPS black book. Having another capable top 6 center/forward who can win draws (especially RHS draws) would absolutely fill a need. The team is awful at faceoffs (especially the guys relied on to kill penalties and take defensive draws. Looking at you Compher and Jost).

Giroux is also a great PK'er so could help in that regard as well if Bednar wanted to use him in that capacity. And being a RHS he would slot into the bumper spot on PP1 which would likely improve with him on it in that position.

I'm not saying that he would fix all the problems the Avs have, but he'd definitely make the team considerably better, deeper, and harder to beat. I'm also not really concerned about how good this team is right now in the regular season, but rather, how they match up against teams like Vegas, Tampa, Florida, Carolina when push comes to shove.

I do think you've made some very valid points in the rest of your post though. The West is clearly weak, and several teams are trending downwards while the Avs do still have a relatively young core with a tonne of cap flexibility moving forward.

Okay I conceed that Giroux can PK (and faceoffs but I am just not sure how much I value them personally. I think you absolutely need one guy that is good at them for key moments but beyond that I am not sure how much stock I put into it).

I also agree that Giroux certainly would make the team better. But I just don't think that he would be worth the asking price considering how the Avs are structured.
If you want to improve your PK or your faceoffs, you bring in a 3rd/4th liner who is good at that. You don't need to spend a 1st ++ on a high level player like Giroux to do that.

I am also not sure about bumping down Nuke. The man wants to get paid and I'd personally rather see how he holds up in the playoffs in a top6 role before I back up the money truck for him.
I'd rather spend a 3rd on a guy like Namestikov (or hopefully someone that is even better defensively and on the PK) instead of bumping Nuke down.

I also don't think that adding Giroux fixes a flaw that is absolutely holding the Avs back and that needs to be fixed if they really want to contend. And that is simply the threshold for me when it comes to giving up major assets (or atleast assets that the Avs can't really afford to lose) at the deadline.

I also only see injuries and goaltending as real flaws that realistically are so big that the Avs couldn't potentially overcome and I don't think that the Avs can do anything about it after investing so much into Kuemper really (and considering that the other options available aren't great either).
Maybe add the PK but that seems more like a scheme thing and also certainly could be adressed at the deadline without having to give up major assets. The rest simply comes down to luck, coaching, chemistry and determination. Not something you can really plan on or count on by going all-in for one season.


Giroux makes more sense to me for a team that is a qualty #2 C away from being a real contender. Maybe the Rangers or Boston?
Not for the Avs IMO.

 

[TheKingPin]

Not at all.
The Avs are already scoring like crazy and adding Giroux won't fix a single flaw that this team has (injuries, goaltending, PK /defensive play of our forwards and potentially a lack of quality on the backend if Byram does not return as the main ones IMO).

Also what Avs fans and others are overlooking is IMO that the West aside from Vegas is in a very bad state. With the Avs core players all being still rather young, it is potentially theirs to win for quite some time if they can get past Vegas. Atleast they should win it a few times in the next 5-6 years if they play their cards right (aka not doing silly stuff at the deadline for example).
Minnesota is doomed after this season due to the recapture for a few years, STL is only getting older and worse, the Canadian teams look like a mess right now (even though Jets and maybe Edmonton might get it together in the next few years but als not likely given the history), Dallas looks old and on their last legs, Vancouver also is in limbo.
The only semi rising teams in the West right that look like a threat down the line are the Kings and maybe the Ducks. And the Kings have Doughty and Kopitar who are also not getting younger.

So why would the Avs push all the chips in the middle at all costs?
Yeah they will probably not get much better in the future as a roster. But they don't have to and there is far from a guarantee that they will be able to overcome Vegas or the multiple juggernauts in the East even if you sacrifice your future for this one run.
So why do it?

I see two major oversights.
G is a great PKer. He has not been used as heavily at certain times bc of how much he is needed elsewhere. He is a top face off man on his side as well.
You don’t win a Cup by just beating west teams. You’ll have to beat the top East team as well. Over that, it’s not just Vegas to beat. Vegas just added a player that rivals and may be better than any on the Avs. They have the ability to shutdown an entire top line. Nevermind the fact that the Avs have lost to a wide variety of west teams over the years well short of the Stanley cup.
I actually don’t exactly see an easy path for the Avs. I think they are great and should go far, but I think you are underplaying things a lot. I could see the flames giving the Avs a run in the first round alone.
I think G offers a lot of balls to be honest. He guts it out and clutch. Something any team needs if there is skill with it but the Avs falling short in some big games seem more so.
And again the Avs are not going to be the same team after this year.