Classic Wrestling Discussion: Part III & Wrestler Poll

[DitchMarner]

Regal and Billy Gunn's returns were so well worth the wait. Al Snow as European Champion is absolutely hilarious because of how blatantly stupid it is. God I love how WWF of this day refuses to take itself seriously. I love the brew towards a title clash between Regal and Snow. The prim, proper Englishman as a heel role is just too damn good. It's hard to choose which role I like better. Al Snow by a nose right now because Regal retained the gimmick. I'll say this much -he made it work so well he deserves to be in the Hall Of Fame if he didn't make it in already -not that I've checked. What an under-appreciated talent he was.

But at long last I am seeing why WWF 2000 is hailed as such a great year. The last 10 months of THE GAAMMMEEEUHHHHH on my TV with Steph every 28 seconds was utter shit but now that we're freed of that, the whole product is breathing and my God it's amazing. I didn't think I'd care much for HHH's babyface incarnation (not fully sold on this being permanent, he's gotta square up against Rock and Austin somehow) but it works and I'm genuinely enjoying his angles.

Eh, HHH was really good in 2000. Late '99 to whenever he got hurt in '01 is the best period of his career and 2000 is his best year. It's much different than his later reign of terror circa 2003-2005.

 

[These Are The Days]

Eh, HHH was really good in 2000. Late '99 to whenever he got hurt in '01 is the best period of his career and 2000 is his best year. It's much different than his later reign of terror circa 2003-2005.

I've enjoyed this little run of his storyline here. With MY.... MY Olympic Hero as champion now (Oh it's true! It's DAMN true baby!) I'm excited to see where this goes with HHH now. I'm not dumping on the work he did but late '99-summer 2000 is a case study in a very good heel idea done very wrong. I had no problem with what was being done with HHH and the power trip but it was overkill for the sake of it. Like Jericho winning the WWF title just to have it taken? Pass me a barf bag.

The only thing worse was JBL. It was a great idea but it was overkill in context of the duration of Smackdown! having heel champs from summer 2003 to spring 2005 with Eddie's 2-3 months being the only break in between. JBL had no business being champion that long with booking that poor

 

[Unholy Diver]

I've been watching random Royal Rumbles the last few weeks, tonight I landed on the 2000 RR, and the Dudleys and Hardys exchanged some hellacious chair shots to the head in a tables tag match, they were a bit tough to watch at times, I'm amazed skulls weren't fractured

 

[NextBigThing]

This is from years ago, but I still believe this is the most level-headed explanation of the Montreal Screwjob.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

I've enjoyed this little run of his storyline here. With MY.... MY Olympic Hero as champion now (Oh it's true! It's DAMN true baby!) I'm excited to see where this goes with HHH now. I'm not dumping on the work he did but late '99-summer 2000 is a case study in a very good heel idea done very wrong. I had no problem with what was being done with HHH and the power trip but it was overkill for the sake of it. Like Jericho winning the WWF title just to have it taken? Pass me a barf bag.

The only thing worse was JBL. It was a great idea but it was overkill in context of the duration of Smackdown! having heel champs from summer 2003 to spring 2005 with Eddie's 2-3 months being the only break in between. JBL had no business being champion that long with booking that poor

The Jericho win and reversal was a unique situation.

Jericho was pissed about being a mid carder after his debut and was told he was coming over to be a main eventer. This was Vince's way to appease him for the time being as he was threatening to leave the company.

 

[Megahab]

The Jericho win and reversal was a unique situation.

Jericho was pissed about being a mid carder after his debut and was told he was coming over to be a main eventer. This was Vince's way to appease him for the time being as he was threatening to leave the company.

This angle was actually good for Jericho and he was a bigger star at the end of the night. But there was almost zero follow up to it so it was all for nothing.

As great as Jericho's career has been, I think it could have been so much more. He should have been main eventing consistently in 2000.

 

[These Are The Days]

The Jericho win and reversal was a unique situation.

Jericho was pissed about being a mid carder after his debut and was told he was coming over to be a main eventer. This was Vince's way to appease him for the time being as he was threatening to leave the company.

I wasn't a huge fan of his early booking either but that seems out of character even for him. Not to put him down but in my opinion he's not special in that regard. From Fall 1999 to Summer 2000 NO ONE got main event booking, not even Rock and Foley. Once Austin went down it was nothing but 8 straight months of DX/HHH/Anyone Named McMahon occupying the space of 30-40% of WWF's airtime on a given week and whoever the opponent was got a blurb. I know I complained enough on the matter but it was beyond ridiculous. You want main event? Freaking X-Pac and Road Dogg EVERY NIGHT getting over like it's Hogan circa 1988

 

[These Are The Days]

This whole Rikishi/Austin thing is just weird. They've gone at it twice and both times were squash matches. Kane's obsession with Jericho over accidentally having coffee spilled on him is the silliest way I've seen a feud ever start. Where the hell is Big Show? There's no way in hell Taker hasn't attacked Austin backstage either

 

[Megahab]

Today is the 30th anniversary of the greatest royal rumble of all time.

Also the 25th anniversary of RR1997. Not sure what the general opinion of this was, but I have fond childhood memories of this event.

 

[These Are The Days]

Starting the November 9th edition of Smackdown! I guess I was wrong about Taker attacking Austin. It was HHH after all hiring Rikishi to run Austin over. Can't say I'm surprised. That brief run as a tweener/pseudo babyface just didn't seem genuine no differently than McMahon's about a year prior. If my theory of the "rule of 2" is correct, my guess is that Kurt probably turns babyface now but this time for a somewhat more permanent length of time than this was.

 

[TheShape]

Always thought Kane's way of flexing was toying with Taker on that debut tombstone Bad Blood '97. Turns out Glenn Jacobs was so nervous he couldn't find the hard camera.

 

[JackSlater]

Always thought Kane's way of flexing was toying with Taker on that debut tombstone Bad Blood '97. Turns out Glenn Jacobs was so nervous he couldn't find the hard camera.

Two of Kane's main characteristics on display within 20 seconds - Kane is magical and can produce fire from the turnbuckle, Kane is also shy and can forget where the hard camera is.

 

[These Are The Days]

Just finished survivor series 2000. It's nice to leave happy but that was as over the top as it gets. Austin basically trying to kill HHH via vehicular homicide just goes to show how hard WWF worked to constantly put HHH over the whole year Austin was out of action because this seems so easy anyone could do it yet Austin is a genius for finding some way to strike back. Lol good grief. And it looks like DX is done for good. After 3 years and the disgusting amount of overexposure and the worst heel booking imaginable for basically all of fall 1999 to summer 2000, all I can say is "Thank you sweet God. Dreams really do come true"

When you look at how DX started and compare to how it got by 2000 it's like "fall of Rome" stuff. What a sorry shell they turned into and how quickly just for HHH to get pushed to the planet Jupiter because push to the moon and screwing the boss's daughter wasn't enough





Edit: Kurt you magnificent SOB. I love you. Rock and Rikishi had a great match. And you guys were right, RTC is great. I must've missed how often they got clobbered back in the day. At least they're heels who have shit booking but pay for it and are not horrifically overexposed. I can deal just fine every time Steven Richards gets plowed through a table.


PPV delivered where it needed to. easy 4 out of 5 stars for me

 

[These Are The Days]

Gonna start Raw post Survivor Series 2000 here in a second and 2 thoughts

1. If it wasn't for the fact he came out with promos against heels seemingly every week and called fans Jerichoholics, this dude would be a heel for how frequently he attacks people backstage and beats the hell out of them. Even Stone Cold didn't get this bad. He just drove monster trucks and beer trucks etc

2. Where the HELL is Big Show? Like I get Undertaker not being on Raw 2-3 weeks at a time. That was just as much of the get up as it was necessity for his body. But Show? Guy has been basically gone since Summer Slam with the exception of a few apperances to attack Taker. I don't remember the dead man beating him so bad he had to go for a while, even in kayfabe

 

[Megahab]

2. Where the HELL is Big Show? Like I get Undertaker not being on Raw 2-3 weeks at a time. That was just as much of the get up as it was necessity for his body. But Show? Guy has been basically gone since Summer Slam with the exception of a few apperances to attack Taker. I don't remember the dead man beating him so bad he had to go for a while, even in kayfabe

I think that was when he had gained a lot of weight and they sent him back to development to lose it (OVW). But he didn't lose any of it until like 7 years later.

 

[These Are The Days]

I think that was when he had gained a lot of weight and they sent him back to development to lose it (OVW). But he didn't lose any of it until like 7 years later.

That makes a ton of sense actually because the absence is as abrupt as it is notable in Show's case.




Another blurb: never understood why a billion dollar corporation cycles dubbed muisc and canned white into its content. You'll pay to have a working roller coaster assembled at Mania but somehow Kid Rock's royalties to a song that's 22 years old and Demolition coming out to their eponymous music (that might be the best of all time) at Wrestlemania is too expensive. Vince is just freaking weird man. Thankfully "You're gonna pay" slaps harder than daddy's belt and I can pretend I'm hearing a roaring applause for everything Taker does

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Gonna start Raw post Survivor Series 2000 here in a second and 2 thoughts

1. If it wasn't for the fact he came out with promos against heels seemingly every week and called fans Jerichoholics, this dude would be a heel for how frequently he attacks people backstage and beats the hell out of them. Even Stone Cold didn't get this bad. He just drove monster trucks and beer trucks etc

2. Where the HELL is Big Show? Like I get Undertaker not being on Raw 2-3 weeks at a time. That was just as much of the get up as it was necessity for his body. But Show? Guy has been basically gone since Summer Slam with the exception of a few apperances to attack Taker. I don't remember the dead man beating him so bad he had to go for a while, even in kayfabe

This is the time where Show put on way too much sloppy weight and got taken off until he got back in shape

 

[GKJ]

This ain’t that classic but this was done by WWE just 3 years ago

Sasha Banks trains with Charlotte to prepare for Ronda Rousey

 

[These Are The Days]

Just started November 23 Smackdown! Love Billy Gunn and I love the fact he's IC champ now. Great match with Eddie. But his repackaging into "The One" is soooo milquetoast right down to his generic music. I miss The Ass like something fierce right now

 

[JackSlater]

Just started November 23 Smackdown! Love Billy Gunn and I love the fact he's IC champ now. Great match with Eddie. But his repackaging into "The One" is soooo milquetoast right down to his generic music. I miss The Ass like something fierce right now

Say what you will about Gunn or the quality of that gimmick... but damn it that was a good theme song for a shitty mid carder.



Ass Man was also not a bad shitty mid carder theme song.

 

[These Are The Days]

Say what you will about Gunn or the quality of that gimmick... but damn it that was a good theme song for a shitty mid carder.



Ass Man was also not a bad shitty mid carder theme song.

Wait what the hell? This is great. I'm going to blame the fact I can't hear it for more than a few opening bars and the rest I can barely hear over the announce team.

Rikishi's "Bad Man" theme is absolutely incredible but I had to go look that one up because I can never hear it even slightly. And it's not even like the boos are deafening. It's just that quiet

 

[eXile3]

Someone on Instagram posted Armageddon 2000 HIAC match. Why don't they do more than 1 on 1 HIAC anymore? That match was chaos and it was amazing. I guess WWE doesn't want to get too much entertainment in its product.

 

[These Are The Days]

Someone on Instagram posted Armageddon 2000 HIAC match. Why don't they do more than 1 on 1 HIAC anymore? That match was chaos and it was amazing. I guess WWE doesn't want to get too much entertainment in its product.

Speaking of. I'm almost at Armageddon 2000 in my AE watch through. The match just got booked. Not having a clue about any of this is amazing. Life did me a small favor with me missing it all.

I pray Angle retains. I love this goofy SOB as champion. William Regal too.

Marking out HARD for Molly Holly. Good God she can go in the ring. Miss Crash as the hardcore champ though. I don't dislike Blackman, I just loved Crash and how nonsensical his matches were

 

[eXile3]

Speaking of. I'm almost at Armageddon 2000 in my AE watch through. The match just got booked. Not having a clue about any of this is amazing. Life did me a small favor with me missing it all.

I pray Angle retains. I love this goofy SOB as champion. William Regal too.

Marking out HARD for Molly Holly. Good God she can go in the ring. Miss Crash as the hardcore champ though. I don't dislike Blackman, I just loved Crash and how nonsensical his matches were

It is the most Attitude era match I can think of if that makes sense. Once you watch it you'll see what I'm talking about. If you're watching for the first time that's cool. I wish I could take you back to what those times were really like. You looked forward to Mondays to watch RAW. Such a cool time for wrestling.

I feel like that was the final year of it and it started changing slowly after 2000. Might just be my perception though. Was 22 years ago.

 

[These Are The Days]

It is the most Attitude era match I can think of if that makes sense. Once you watch it you'll see what I'm talking about. If you're watching for the first time that's cool. I wish I could take you back to what those times were really like. You looked forward to Mondays to watch RAW. Such a cool time for wrestling.

I feel like that was the final year of it and it started changing slowly after 2000. Might just be my perception though. Was 22 years ago.

I have a feeling I'm not going to be disappointed. I suppose it's a spoiler knowing in 2022 Rikishi was never WWE champion (thus I know he's not gonna win) but so far I've never been so thoroughly entertained in the lead up. If things change I'll surely see what you mean there. But actually feel like WWF has made positive changes already. 1999 was too "sexualized" and after a while the product was just pushing smut. 2000 is finding a nice "medium" for me in the overall product. I must've carried on for 5 pages about how I couldn't stand how poorly booked the McMahon/HHH era was but so far I'm at least in a change I like. At first impression I don't think I'm going to be disappointed. I've still got the Raw before Armageddon to finish and the following Smackdown! before I see the PPV.

Gun to my head I'm going to pick Angle to pull off a miracle and some bullshit bails him out because it's consistent with his booking (huge JBL vibes off him) and the Rumble is a "Big 4" PPV and it would make sense to drop it there. I may actually prefer that as the outcome because he's not an over-the-top heel and his matches are usually the best of the night.



But to carry back to your subject of when the business changed. I started watching Smackdown only (didn't have cable until 2006) sporadically in 2001 (maybe a show every 2-3 months) then around the time Brock broke into the biz I was watching consistently and had been for most of early spring 2002. It was shortly after he left I noticed a change in the consistency of the show. 2004 was pivotal in that regard. Unless John Cena was going nuclear on the mic, the show was more or less milquetoast, the new talent became more gimmicky and it no longer played to the sense of realism that I had become accustomed to. It's not that I needed cuss words and dudes getting hit with chairs every 5 minutes. I simply felt like I was a 15 year old being treated like I was 8 because it was a heel-centric product that was full of ridiculousness that only Vince could think of. By 2005 when Eddie died, John Cena had turned into Commander Fruity Pebbles and stuff the Boogeyman and "Juniors Division" was a thing I said "They've gone back to 1994" and slowly fell out of love.