Player Discussion Christian Dvorak Part 2

[MtlSars]

56.7% in faceoffs win %, good for 17th in the whole league among players who took more than 100 faceoffs.
33 points in 56 games, good for a 48 points pace.
Good size, decent speed, only 26 years old.
Cost controlled.
Can play in all situations and good in all three zones.

Now. Can someone explain me what's the urge in trading this guy? He's the textbook definition of the perfect 3rd line C.

This is ridiculous.

Especially with the current state of the team....makes little sense. Keep him until hes's on his last year and flip him at the TDL sure.

With his point production under MSL last year, he'd get close to 60 pts and thats with Hoffman and Gallagher on the wings poor guy.....

 

[26Mats]

Especially with the current state of the team....makes little sense. Keep him until hes's on his last year and flip him at the TDL sure.

With his point production under MSL last year, he'd get close to 60 pts and thats with Hoffman and Gallagher on the wings poor guy.....

I'm all for seeing more of what we have, especially under MSL and with better linemates.

But if his value ever gets high and HuGo don't see him as part of the future, I'd move him irrespective of whether it makes the team worse short term.

Having said that maybe he'll play really well and become part of the future.

 

[MtlSars]

I'm all for seeing more of what we have, especially under MSL and with better linemates.

But if his value ever gets high and HuGo don't see him as part of the future, I'd move him irrespective of whether it makes the team worse short term.

Having said that maybe he'll play really well and become part of the future.

I mean the guy makes 1 more million than Armia and Byron, signed through 25-26 and currently just 26 years old.

Very decent contract for what he CURRENTLY brings to the table, with still potential for upside. Of the current Stanley cup playoffs teams (eliminated and remaining) not many of them have a better 3rd C.

He can take important faceoffs to ease the pain of having 2 very young Cs at 1 and 2.

Point is.... I don't see him devaluating in the near future either, if anything patience could make his stock rise. There's a lot of ankers and deadwood I'd get rid of before him let's just say.

 

[26Mats]

I mean the guy makes 1 more million than Armia and Byron, signed through 25-26 and currently just 26 years old.

Very decent contract for what he CURRENTLY brings to the table, with still potential for upside. Of the current Stanley cup playoffs teams (eliminated and remaining) not many of them have a better 3rd C.

He can take important faceoffs to ease the pain of having 2 very young Cs at 1 and 2.

Point is.... I don't see him devaluating in the near future either, if anything patience could make his stock rise. There's a lot of ankers and deadwood I'd get rid of before him let's just say.

He's got to show me what he can do over a bigger sample size under MSL to make me a believer...

We have so much unmovable dead weight that we might have to move players like Dvo and Anderson if we want to address certain issues.
We'll see how things shake out. It doesn't look like either of them will be moved this summer. Will be interesting to see what kind of seasons they have next year...

 

[Tetragrammaton]

56.7% in faceoffs win %, good for 17th in the whole league among players who took more than 100 faceoffs.
33 points in 56 games, good for a 48 points pace.
Good size, decent speed, only 26 years old.
Cost controlled.
Can play in all situations and good in all three zones.

Now. Can someone explain me what's the urge in trading this guy? He's the textbook definition of the perfect 3rd line C.

This is ridiculous.

The reason is because he can fetch us a very good return and people are on the selling train right now. We should hold onto him for a bit and see how fast our team can become contenders again.

 

[nhlfan9191]

The reason is because he can fetch us a very good return and people are on the selling train right now. We should hold onto him for a bit and see how fast our team can become contenders again.

He’s under contract for a while. We may as well hang on to him as a warm body for now. His value won’t decrease if we do. If someone makes a good offer, send him off. But I imagine HuGo sees him as a pretty good stop gap given his term and unlikely chance to depreciate.

 

[Kents polished head]

The reason is because he can fetch us a very good return and people are on the selling train right now. We should hold onto him for a bit and see how fast our team can become contenders again.

Yeah, people want to trade him so we get a 30th overall pick and draft a guy like Emerson Etem.

People are so obsessed with the whole rebuilding idea that they're ready to do things that don't make the slightest bit of sense just so they can stockpile low first round picks.

If someone wants to talk me about the merits of trading guys like Petry, Hoffman, Byron, Armia, Price and Gallagher because they don't fit the picture in the context of a rebuild, I'm all ears. But trading a guy who's just as young as Evans and who has been on pace for more than 45 points a season in the past few years, is one of the best in the league for faceoffs and can play in all situations? That doesn't make sense. Most teams spend years trying to get their hands on a piece like this and we'll be in the same situation if we let this guy leave. The gap between Suzuki/Wright and Evans is going to be wayyyy too huge.

In fact I'm starting to get the impression that Evans is severely overrated by most of our fanbase.

 

[JianYang]

56.7% in faceoffs win %, good for 17th in the whole league among players who took more than 100 faceoffs.
33 points in 56 games, good for a 48 points pace.
Good size, decent speed, only 26 years old.
Cost controlled.
Can play in all situations and good in all three zones.

Now. Can someone explain me what's the urge in trading this guy? He's the textbook definition of the perfect 3rd line C.

This is ridiculous.

In addition to this, they just don't have the resources down the middle to afford such a move at this point in time

So any talk of dealing him is moot anyways. They aren't going to slot Evans, or poehling there... And it's too early for Wright.

 

[Kents polished head]

In addition to this, they just don't have the resources down the middle to afford such a move at this point in time

So any talk of dealing him is moot anyways. They aren't going to slot Evans, or poehling there... And it's too early for Wright.

Evans and Poehling are getting so incredibly overrated. Poehling has spent the whole year doing a whole bunch of nothing on the ice, and Evans is what he always was projected to be. A modern days 4th line C.

 

[NORiculous]

56.7% in faceoffs win %, good for 17th in the whole league among players who took more than 100 faceoffs.
33 points in 56 games, good for a 48 points pace.
Good size, decent speed, only 26 years old.
Cost controlled.
Can play in all situations and good in all three zones.

Now. Can someone explain me what's the urge in trading this guy? He's the textbook definition of the perfect 3rd line C.

This is ridiculous.

Is he part of the core that needs to be built to win a Stanley cup or to be a multiple year contender?

If the answer is no he is not in the core, then he is expandable. If he is expendable then the Habs need to maximize his value to get assets that will be part of that core.

Evans and Poehling are getting so incredibly overrated. Poehling has spent the whole year doing a whole bunch of nothing on the ice, and Evans is what he always was projected to be. A modern days 4th line C.

I don’t like Poehling very much. I would trade him if there is a team that sees value in him.

Evans is blossoming into a very solid player that is ready for more. He played the toughest minutes last year and had a very good year.

 

[NORiculous]

I mean the guy makes 1 more million than Armia and Byron, signed through 25-26 and currently just 26 years old.

Very decent contract for what he CURRENTLY brings to the table, with still potential for upside. Of the current Stanley cup playoffs teams (eliminated and remaining) not many of them have a better 3rd C.

He can take important faceoffs to ease the pain of having 2 very young Cs at 1 and 2.

Point is.... I don't see him devaluating in the near future either, if anything patience could make his stock rise. There's a lot of ankers and deadwood I'd get rid of before him let's just say.

A guy with that much experience has very very low probability to reach more upside. He has had the chances and he has played with very good players already.

 

[JoelWarlord]

Now. Can someone explain me what's the urge in trading this guy? He's the textbook definition of the perfect 3rd line C.

This is ridiculous.

Honestly I think the only reason to trade him is exactly because he's a great asset that we should be happy to keep. That might sound like a contradiction but what I mean is the Canadiens have a really strong bargaining position in a potential trade and can afford to tell teams to come with their best offers or don't bother. He's a player the Habs should be thrilled to keep for at least the medium term, but he's also a guy that a team like eg. Calgary might really value as a long term fit as a middle-six C, and in that case he could bring in a strong return because you just need one team to bite and the Habs can just wait for the other team to meet their price.

Otherwise I fullyagree with you, there's really no point trading the guy at the moment unless someone makes an offer we can't refuse. Next offseason if Wright establishes himself there might be more of an argument to trade him and run a cheap veteran as a sheltered all-offence 3C/PP2 guy while Suzuki/Wright as the 1-2 and Evans as the 4C take all the defensive and matchup duties, but right now I think the Habs should (and will) keep him unless they're offered something really enticing in return.

 

[dcyhabs]

Yeah, people want to trade him so we get a 30th overall pick and draft a guy like Emerson Etem.

People are so obsessed with the whole rebuilding idea that they're ready to do things that don't make the slightest bit of sense just so they can stockpile low first round picks.

If someone wants to talk me about the merits of trading guys like Petry, Hoffman, Byron, Armia, Price and Gallagher because they don't fit the picture in the context of a rebuild, I'm all ears. But trading a guy who's just as young as Evans and who has been on pace for more than 45 points a season in the past few years, is one of the best in the league for faceoffs and can play in all situations? That doesn't make sense. Most teams spend years trying to get their hands on a piece like this and we'll be in the same situation if we let this guy leave. The gap between Suzuki/Wright and Evans is going to be wayyyy too huge.

In fact I'm starting to get the impression that Evans is severely overrated by most of our fanbase.

I think it's more that he doesn't fit the team and doesn't really have a role that makes people want to dump him. Plus the fact that he was acquired for picks in MB's tire fire of an off season when, in retrospect, we shouldn't have taken him and we shouldn't have removed him from Arizona to make them worse.

He's fine, but they should have 2 better offensive centers and his D isn't bad but he's not a shutdown player. He's not fast, either, though if he picks up a step he'd probably be able to play shutdown D or second line center. If he puts up 45 points he's a terrible second line center or a high scoring third liner, except he's being compared to other third line guys who have a more defensive role.

If he actually puts up 60 points in a season the discussion will change, and it is certainly possible.

 

[26Mats]

I think it's more that he doesn't fit the team and doesn't really have a role that makes people want to dump him. Plus the fact that he was acquired for picks in MB's tire fire of an off season when, in retrospect, we shouldn't have taken him and we shouldn't have removed him from Arizona to make them worse.

He's fine, but they should have 2 better offensive centers and his D isn't bad but he's not a shutdown player. He's not fast, either, though if he picks up a step he'd probably be able to play shutdown D or second line center. If he puts up 45 points he's a terrible second line center or a high scoring third liner, except he's being compared to other third line guys who have a more defensive role.

If he actually puts up 60 points in a season the discussion will change, and it is certainly possible.

I'm not expecting much either in his performances or the return when he's traded. But hope for the best.

We'll build our team mainly through the draft of early lottery picks. Hopefully hit on a could of late 1sts (from Chiarot, Toffoli, Petry?, Eddy?, Dvorak?, Anderson?).

 

[26Mats]

Evans and Poehling are getting so incredibly overrated. Poehling has spent the whole year doing a whole bunch of nothing on the ice, and Evans is what he always was projected to be. A modern days 4th line C.

Evans played really well with Danault and Gallagher before Scheifele knocked him out.

Don't sleep on him as a role player. He can play any role. He may get 40 points if he's playing with good offensive players.

We'll see what Poehling becomes...

 

[Ezpz]

Evans played really well with Danault and Gallagher before Scheifele knocked him out.

Don't sleep on him as a role player. He can play any role. He may get 40 points if he's playing with good offensive players.

We'll see what Poehling becomes...

If Evans hits 40 next year you trade him to Tampa for a Hagel return.

 

[Dach Vader]

I'd only move Dvorak for an overpay I couldn't refuse.

 

[26Mats]

If Evans hits 40 next year you trade him to Tampa for a Hagel return.

I have no problem with that - if the offer actually gets put on the table.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

We have to give Dvorak a full / near-full season under MSL before truly evaluating his place on the Habs. I never got the feeling that he was 100% until near the end of the season. Can't get a read on his game yet. His numbers are on par with Arizona despite a miserable season. His numbers under MSL are far more productive.

I don't think there is enough data to judge him.

 

[dcyhabs]

Evans played really well with Danault and Gallagher before Scheifele knocked him out.

Don't sleep on him as a role player. He can play any role. He may get 40 points if he's playing with good offensive players.

We'll see what Poehling becomes...

Everyone played well with Danault. I prefer to avoid gooning it up but I was happy that Weber rag dolled Point a couple of times after Point hit Evans in the head during scrums on his return from his concussion. Point should have been thrown out of the series not so much because of the magnitude of his gesture but because of the obvious intent. No respect for Point ever again, he can’t get that one back.

 

[jrom]

Dvorak has a No trade clause that kicks in after next season. Agreed that there is no rush to move him but if he isn’t traded this year his consent will be required to do it eventually.

 

[HuGort]

We have to give Dvorak a full / near-full season under MSL before truly evaluating his place on the Habs. I never got the feeling that he was 100% until near the end of the season. Can't get a read on his game yet. His numbers are on par with Arizona despite a miserable season. His numbers under MSL are far more productive.

I don't think there is enough data to judge him.

Habs going to go want speed thou. Dvorak be gone, trade deadline at latest.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Habs going to go want speed thou. Dvorak be gone, trade deadline at latest.

I agree that speed is the biggest issue with Dvorak. But best to give him a half season at least to up his value before trading him. It also gives us time to ensure Wright is all-right.

Who knows, Dvorak might surprise with a healthy offseason and MSL in place.

 

[NORiculous]

I think it's more that he doesn't fit the team and doesn't really have a role that makes people want to dump him. Plus the fact that he was acquired for picks in MB's tire fire of an off season when, in retrospect, we shouldn't have taken him and we shouldn't have removed him from Arizona to make them worse.

He's fine, but they should have 2 better offensive centers and his D isn't bad but he's not a shutdown player. He's not fast, either, though if he picks up a step he'd probably be able to play shutdown D or second line center. If he puts up 45 points he's a terrible second line center or a high scoring third liner, except he's being compared to other third line guys who have a more defensive role.

If he actually puts up 60 points in a season the discussion will change, and it is certainly possible.

Yes.

He isn’t able to play against tough opposition like good 3rd liners do and he doesn’t produce like good 2nd liners do.

He has value and he needs to be traded this summer for max return.

In any event, he isn’t that more useful in a rebuild compared to other options. He can be replaced easily.

Habs aren’t making the playoffs so what is the point of keeping assets we know aren’t part of the core.

 

[NORiculous]

I agree that speed is the biggest issue with Dvorak. But best to give him a half season at least to up his value before trading him. It also gives us time to ensure Wright is all-right.

Who knows, Dvorak might surprise with a healthy offseason and MSL in place.

Multiple problems with this approach.

1. He could shit the bed.
2. It is much harder to trade in the season compared to the off season.
3. He actually doesn’t need to shit the bed to lose value. All he needs to do is to not keep up the pace he had under MSL (his production). That is very important because he has trouble driving possession against moderately hard opposition. This is a problem if he doesn’t breakout because he then becomes nothing else then a 3rd liner (in production) that needs to be sheltered. (Easier opposition so he can drive possession).

So that is why we need to understand that with the numbers of games he has played and with the quality players he has played, at this point it is very unlikely he breaks out offensively and he won’t magically be able to drive possession against tougher opposition.

Time to trade him is now. There is no other way to maximize his value.

ÉDIT: just want to add that he needs to be sheltered compared to good 3rd liners NOT compared to rookies.