Player Discussion Christian Dvorak Part 2

Evans and Poehling are getting so incredibly overrated. Poehling has spent the whole year doing a whole bunch of nothing on the ice, and Evans is what he always was projected to be. A modern days 4th line C.

I actually like Evans, but there's still big question marks over his durability, and while I think he is better than your typical 4C, you shouldn't slot him as your 2C either.
 
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I actually like Evans, but there's still big question marks over his durability, and while I think he is better than your typical 4C, you shouldn't slot him as your 2C either.
Obviously don’t give him 2C but he is ready for more compared to last year.

I’m curious to see him play with better linemates. Give him a couple of shifts with Suzuki/Caufield of the first PP. I mean… it might not lead to anything, because he doesn’t have the history, but he had a very good season and it actually could happen.
 
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56.7% in faceoffs win %, good for 17th in the whole league among players who took more than 100 faceoffs.
33 points in 56 games, good for a 48 points pace.
Good size, decent speed, only 26 years old.
Cost controlled.
Can play in all situations and good in all three zones.

Now. Can someone explain me what's the urge in trading this guy? He's the textbook definition of the perfect 3rd line C.

This is ridiculous.
He won't put up those type of points when used on the 3rd line as opposed to the 2nd line. He likely doesn't want to be a 3rd line C so much like Danault if that looks to be in the cards he will want to move on. And finally 4.5m for a 3rd line C is very expensive.

We don't need to trade him immediately but he doesn't have much of a future with us, and it's probably better to move on sooner rather then later, because if he's 3rd line C next year and puts up 30 points as a result there won't be much of a market for him.
 
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He won't put up those type of points when used on the 3rd line as opposed to the 2nd line. He likely doesn't want to be a 3rd line C so much like Danault if that looks to be in the cards he will want to move on. And finally 4.5m for a 3rd line C is very expensive.

We don't need to trade him immediately but he doesn't have much of a future with us, and it's probably better to move on sooner rather then later, because if he's 3rd line C next year and puts up 30 points as a result there won't be much of a market for him.
4.5M for a third-line center is perfectly fine if your second-line center makes 900K for the next 3 years.

There's absolutely no rush to trade Dvorak.
 
4.5M for a third-line center is perfectly fine if your second-line center makes 900K for the next 3 years.

There's absolutely no rush to trade Dvorak.
There is no rush if you don’t mind losing on his current value.

I rather get an asset that will have a chance to join the core.
 
He's 26 years old! He's your core!
I don’t agree.

When Suzuki/Caufield/Wright hit their prime he will be 30ish. He is already a slower player and will have slowed down even more.

He doesn’t produce enough to be a good #2 and he isn’t solid enough against tougher opposition to be a good #3.

He needs good players around him to be somewhat effective. Habs aren’t going to compete so keeping him is a waste.

Next year is a do or die year in terms of ceiling. Chances are he resumes his 40ish pace with some ups and downs. I’d much rather get a young asset that would grow with the core.
 
I don’t agree.

When Suzuki/Caufield/Wright hit their prime he will be 30ish. He is already a slower player and will have slowed down even more.

He doesn’t produce enough to be a good #2 and he isn’t solid enough against tougher opposition to be a good #3.

He needs good players around him to be somewhat effective. Habs aren’t going to compete so keeping him is a waste.

Next year is a do or die year in terms of ceiling. Chances are he resumes his 40ish pace with some ups and downs. I’d much rather get a young asset that would grow with the core.
No rush to move him though. Give him a shot to see if hne comes close to the 60 point pace under MSL.

Even 50 points with his face-off prowess means he is easily earning his contract. He will be in his twenties this entire contract, stop calling him old!
 
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No rush to move him though. Give him a shot to see if hne comes close to the 60 point pace under MSL.

Even 50 points with his face-off prowess means he is easily earning his contract. He will be in his twenties this entire contract, stop calling him old!
You are aiming for a breakout after already playing 350-400 games. He has been in the NHL for 6 years. He will turn 27 this year. Breakouts that happen with these criterias are slim to none. These type of breakouts normally happen with bigger guys (6’3’’ +) because these players need time to fill their bodies.

Dvorak has played with very good players already (Keller, Kessel) He has had multiple chances already. He played on the PP. He has passed through a couple of coaches already.

He can’t face tougher opposition because he has trouble driving possession.

I don’t see a breakout. The chances are very very slim. It is wishful thinking at this point. Let some other team wish he can be better and make them pay for it.

The Habs aren’t going to be competing for a playoff spot. What good does keeping him do if he scores 5 more goals (it might not be that much) then a cheaper UFA we can sign for free? That UFA could also be able to play tougher minutes then him.

Trading him now is just good asset management.
 
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I agree that speed is the biggest issue with Dvorak. But best to give him a half season at least to up his value before trading him. It also gives us time to ensure Wright is all-right.

Who knows, Dvorak might surprise with a healthy offseason and MSL in place.
Dvorak gone by trade deadline. He maybe gone this summer, Habs probably listening in him. Him and Petry both. Habs Could stack first round '23 Draft. Both of them free up extra 11 million. UFA market next summer several top names available. If Price goes on long term could jump to 21 million.
 
I don’t agree.

When Suzuki/Caufield/Wright hit their prime he will be 30ish. He is already a slower player and will have slowed down even more.

He doesn’t produce enough to be a good #2 and he isn’t solid enough against tougher opposition to be a good #3.

He needs good players around him to be somewhat effective. Habs aren’t going to compete so keeping him is a waste.

Next year is a do or die year in terms of ceiling. Chances are he resumes his 40ish pace with some ups and downs. I’d much rather get a young asset that would grow with the core.
That's up to the habs, though. Tampa absolutely wanted to move on from Drouin, but did they bash him in the media, limit his ice time, and tank his career? They showcased him, gave him good linemates, pumped his playoff performance and suckered MB into giving up a good player for him.

Play Dvorak as second line center with good linemates this year. Give him power play time even if he isn't effective. Somehow try to prevent the hideous Montreal media from sabotaging his value. Then trade him for a player who fits the habs needs better or for picks.

There is always the chance that with some coaching Dvorak can get a little faster, too. It's pretty late in his career to make changes but if he does he could be very useful.
 
That's up to the habs, though. Tampa absolutely wanted to move on from Drouin, but did they bash him in the media, limit his ice time, and tank his career? They showcased him, gave him good linemates, pumped his playoff performance and suckered MB into giving up a good player for him.

Play Dvorak as second line center with good linemates this year. Give him power play time even if he isn't effective. Somehow try to prevent the hideous Montreal media from sabotaging his value. Then trade him for a player who fits the habs needs better or for picks.

There is always the chance that with some coaching Dvorak can get a little faster, too. It's pretty late in his career to make changes but if he does he could be very useful.
Yeah. Now what you mention it, I think that is what they tried last year.

I’m hopeful someone will bite this summer because things get much more complicated if they need to play him and then trade him. (Other team’s cap, he needs to start with a strong performance, etc. )

I really doubt he can get better after 350+ games of trying. He is inconsistent and that shouldn’t magically change because of MSL. Maybe if MSL would have coached him when he was 19-22 but not at 26-27.
 
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4.5M for a third-line center is perfectly fine if your second-line center makes 900K for the next 3 years.

There's absolutely no rush to trade Dvorak.
It's still better to use Evans as 3rd line center and spend that 3m on upgrading a different part of the lineup like the wingers so your 1st OA pick has someone actually good to play with, buyout Gallagher trade Dvorak and you have 8-9m to get a winger whose actually good to play with Wright. That's a far better use of cap space then spending 11m for a 3rd line of Dvorak-Gallagher.

And again, what happens when Dvorak doesn't like being 3rd line center with little to no PP time, mostly defensive zone faceoffs, and wingers of dubious quality? Because chances are he'll demand a trade which lowers his potential return. It's better to head off those situations by making the move beforehand.

Now we don't have to trade Dvorak this summer, but chances are we will want to do it sometime this year, or next summer. The earlier it happens the more value we will likely get in return.

That's up to the habs, though. Tampa absolutely wanted to move on from Drouin, but did they bash him in the media, limit his ice time, and tank his career? They showcased him, gave him good linemates, pumped his playoff performance and suckered MB into giving up a good player for him.

Play Dvorak as second line center with good linemates this year. Give him power play time even if he isn't effective. Somehow try to prevent the hideous Montreal media from sabotaging his value. Then trade him for a player who fits the habs needs better or for picks.

There is always the chance that with some coaching Dvorak can get a little faster, too. It's pretty late in his career to make changes but if he does he could be very useful.
He won't get faster but you can hope with a better coaching he can do better positioning wise which often makes a player look faster then they really are.
 
Just realized he was in the same draft as Scherbak, Dvorak was drafted 3rd last in the 2nd round.

I remember HFHabs were looking at Scherbak, Barbashev, Kempe and Lemieux with our late 1st iirc.

Why was his stock so low? Skating issues? That was the year before he put up 100pts with Marner.

Fun fact, the Habs' 2nd pick that year was traded to the Wild for Vanek. That pick was traded again to Tampa and they selected Brayden Point.

  1. The Montreal Canadiens' second-round pick went to the Tampa Bay Lightning as the result of a trade on June 27, 2014 that sent the Rangers first-round pick in 2014 (28th overall) to the New York Islanders in exchange for the Islanders second-round pick in 2014 (35th overall) and this pick.[14]The Islanders previously acquired this pick as the result of a trade on March 5, 2014 that sent Thomas Vanek and a conditional fifth-round pick in 2014 to Montreal in exchange for Sebastian Collberg and this pick (being conditional at the time of the trade).[34] The condition – New York will receive a second-round pick in 2014 if Montreal qualifies for the 2014 Stanley Cup playoffs – was converted on April 1, 2014.[35]

In retrospect, Bergevin' best trade turned out to shit LOL

fq81KAntlkl7B6jJ.jpg
 
He's still a capable center and a better player than many think. I'd think carefully before trading him away. The team needs depth at center even if does draft Wright.
 
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Dvorak gone by trade deadline. He maybe gone this summer, Habs probably listening in him. Him and Petry both. Habs Could stack first round '23 Draft. Both of them free up extra 11 million. UFA market next summer several top names available. If Price goes on long term could jump to 21 million.
While this is off topic, having both Weber and Price on LTIR (isn’t official until the beginning of the season or around there) is that their caps count against the cap up until that point.

So in reality, the Habs lose cap space to sign free agents. They are allowed to go over the cap by 10% (8M) but Weber and Price account for 18M, which means the Habs have 10M dead cap space until they get on LTIR.
 
Just realized he was in the same draft as Scherbak, Dvorak was drafted 3rd last in the 2nd round.

I remember HFHabs were looking at Scherbak, Barbashev, Kempe and Lemieux with our late 1st iirc.

Why was his stock so low? Skating issues? That was the year before he put up 100pts with Marner.

Fun fact, the Habs' 2nd pick that year was traded to the Wild for Vanek. That pick was traded again to Tampa and they selected Brayden Point.



In retrospect, Bergevin' best trade turned out to shit LOL

fq81KAntlkl7B6jJ.jpg
Point was a 3rd round pick. The lightning moved up 1 spot to get him I believe.

That is the only time Bergevin traded up and he traded up and grabbed
...


Brett Lernout.
 
Just realized he was in the same draft as Scherbak, Dvorak was drafted 3rd last in the 2nd round.

I remember HFHabs were looking at Scherbak, Barbashev, Kempe and Lemieux with our late 1st iirc.

Why was his stock so low? Skating issues? That was the year before he put up 100pts with Marner.

Fun fact, the Habs' 2nd pick that year was traded to the Wild for Vanek. That pick was traded again to Tampa and they selected Brayden Point.



In retrospect, Bergevin' best trade turned out to shit LOL

fq81KAntlkl7B6jJ.jpg
Point was a 3rd round pick. The lightning moved up 1 spot to get him I believe.

That is the only time Bergevin traded up and he traded up and grabbed
...


Brett Lernout.
 
He won't put up those type of points when used on the 3rd line as opposed to the 2nd line. He likely doesn't want to be a 3rd line C so much like Danault if that looks to be in the cards he will want to move on. And finally 4.5m for a 3rd line C is very expensive.

We don't need to trade him immediately but he doesn't have much of a future with us, and it's probably better to move on sooner rather then later, because if he's 3rd line C next year and puts up 30 points as a result there won't be much of a market for him.
A 82 millions dollars cap means that the "average player" on a cap team earns 3.56M$.

4.5 ain't what it used to be. It's not "very expensive" as the center line is probably the most important position in modern hockey.
 
Yeah, people want to trade him so we get a 30th overall pick and draft a guy like Emerson Etem.

People are so obsessed with the whole rebuilding idea that they're ready to do things that don't make the slightest bit of sense just so they can stockpile low first round picks.

I fully agree with your entire post but want to underline this. It's a really rotten mentality that's taken hold of fandom due to vocal, compulsive posters and internet culture.

Trading Dvorak for a low 1st would be a ridiculously stupid idea and Bergevin did well by making the trade.
 
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Trade Dvorak at deadline we gain a first pick in '23 draft.. Probably more than that. Either a former first pick or early 2nd. Take the money and sign a UFA in summer. Watching the Rangers game other night, player caliber of Strome be good fit. He looked fast, relentless worker. Give you 50 points then flip him in 3-4 years get another first. Won't be him as he is UFA this summer but that kind of player.

It's a couple of free firsts.

This is ridiculous and total wishful thinking for very obvious reasons.
 
I fully agree with your entire post but want to underline this. It's a really rotten mentality that's taken hold of fandom due to vocal, compulsive posters and internet culture.

Trading Dvorak for a low 1st would be a ridiculously stupid idea and Bergevin did well by making the trade.

When you draft a guy at the end of the first, unless you're winning the lottery like the Bruins did with Pastrnak, the best case scenario for your pick is pretty much getting a guy like Dvorak.

I would understand the point if he was over 30 and on the decline. But right now, it would be a terrible idea to trade him. There's absolutely nothing in the pipeline to take his spot. And don't tell me Wright. Wright is a needed addition to our top-6 with Suzuki and Dvorak already in place. Not a replacement of any kind.
 

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