Player Discussion Christian Dvorak Part 2

[Vachon23]

Don't forget that Dvo is our only center who can win face-off more then 50% of the time (16th in the league)

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Don't forget that Dvo is our only center who can win face-off more then 50% of the time (16th in the league)

I prefer Danault but the narrative around Dvorak on this board is starting to become very similar. People don't learn.

 

[Habano]

This is now the second time you've had trouble with reading comprehension, the first being when you thought I'd said you said Dvorak was 37. Christ. I meant that Dvorak played with humps on his wing all year. Anyways. I gave you number, you haven't and a couple of advanced stat won't prove the obviously stupid idea that Jake Evans is a better player than Christian Dvorak, who for some reason, all his positive play you want to attribute to a hot streak (one that Evans has never achieved) and which doesn't hold up statistically and especially not to the eye test.

Post automatically merged: May 2, 2022

Kotkaniemi is most definitely not a better player than Dvorak at this point in time. I like KK but that's a farcical take.

You're entitled to your opinion as am I to mine. All I said was that I would take KK over Dvorak. He's young and fits MSL's "concept" better than Dvorak. We can revisit my opinion in a couple of years and see who's better.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Love me some DVO. Decent player.

 

[Habano]

Don't forget that Dvo is our only center who can win face-off more then 50% of the time (16th in the league)

Yes he's good in the circle but Evans is basically at 50% (49.78) and is a much better and faster skater. He also goes into the corners and is very responsible defensively. If Dvo was putting up 55-60 points a year I'd be ok with it because he'd bring something to the team that Evans doesn't. I don't think he's worth 3.7 mil. more than Evans because he wins one extra face off out of every 15 draws.

Call me crazy but that's way too much money for a career 30-35 point guy.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Yes he's good in the circle but Evans is basically at 50% (49.78) and is a much better and faster skater. He also goes into the corners and is very responsible defensively. If Dvo was putting up 55-60 points a year I'd be ok with it because he'd bring something to the team that Evans doesn't. I don't think he's worth 3.7 mil. more than Evans because he wins one extra face off out of every 15 draws.

Call me crazy but that's way too much money for a career 30-35 point guy.

Dvorak was on a 48 point pace for all games played and over 60 points under MSL.

Evans is a SLIGHTLY better skater and will be making $1.7M the next 3 years, so the difference in salary is $1M less than you said.

Meanwhile Evans is about the same age as Dvorak, and has 48 points in 145 NHL games.

Dvorak has 82 points in his last 145 games. That is not a 30-35 point guy, and is not even CLOSE to Evans. Your skewing of each fact reveals your biases.

 

[26Mats]

Dvorak was on a 48 point pace for all games played and over 60 points under MSL.

Evans is a SLIGHTLY better skater and will be making $1.7M the next 3 years, so the difference in salary is $1M less than you said.

Meanwhile Evans is about the same age as Dvorak, and has 48 points in 145 NHL games.

Dvorak has 82 points in his last 145 games. That is not a 30-35 point guy, and is not even CLOSE to Evans. Your skewing of each fact reveals your biases.

I would like one of Evan's or Dvo to play wing onnthe top if we get a legit 2c.

But we have so many mediocre contracts taking up space onnthe wing innthe middle six, sigh...

 

[Habano]

Dvorak was on a 48 point pace for all games played and over 60 points under MSL.

Evans is a SLIGHTLY better skater and will be making $1.7M the next 3 years, so the difference in salary is $1M less than you said.

Meanwhile Evans is about the same age as Dvorak, and has 48 points in 145 NHL games.

Dvorak has 82 points in his last 145 games. That is not a 30-35 point guy, and is not even CLOSE to Evans. Your skewing of each fact reveals your biases.

Like I said, the stats are there. He's a 30-35 point guy and that's all he is until he proves otherwise. CC was at close to a 50 goal pace under MSL. Are you calling him a 50 goal scorer? Massaging and extrapolating are speculation until the player actually attains those numbers. Caufield is right now a 20-30 goal scorer just like Dvorak is a 30-35 point guy.

You talk about skewing stats lol. In which NHL has Evans played 145 games? He has 45 points in 132 games. Dvorak averaged out to 51 points in his first 132 games. If those extra 6 points, over the better part of 2 seasons, are worth 3mil. (2.75mil to be exact) a year, would you be willing to sign a player who gives you 3-5 points a season for 2.75mil. a year? I know I wouldn't.

If you think Evans is only a SLIGHTLY better skater, either you have never skated or, maybe it's your biases you should be concerned with.

 

[Vachon23]

Yes he's good in the circle but Evans is basically at 50% (49.78) and is a much better and faster skater. He also goes into the corners and is very responsible defensively. If Dvo was putting up 55-60 points a year I'd be ok with it because he'd bring something to the team that Evans doesn't. I don't think he's worth 3.7 mil. more than Evans because he wins one extra face off out of every 15 draws.

Call me crazy but that's way too much money for a career 30-35 point guy.

Dvorak is a way better player then Evans though, the only part of the game that Evans is better, it’s the skating. I don’t see Evans being more then a 4th line C on a good team à la Torrey Mitchell

 

[Wats]

Pipe dream that Dvorak+Anderson ends up being trade chip that lands a young high upside guy like Lafreniere.

 

[Habano]

Dvorak is a way better player then Evans though, the only part of the game that Evans is better, it’s the skating. I don’t see Evans being more then a 4th line C on a good team à la Torrey Mitchell

I don't know about that. I see Dvorak as a 3rd line centre on our crappy team so, where would that put him on a good team? On the 3rd or 4th line just like Evans.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Like I said, the stats are there. He's a 30-35 point guy and that's all he is until he proves otherwise. CC was at close to a 50 goal pace under MSL. Are you calling him a 50 goal scorer? Massaging and extrapolating are speculation until the player actually attains those numbers. Caufield is right now a 20-30 goal scorer just like Dvorak is a 30-35 point guy.

You talk about skewing stats lol. In which NHL has Evans played 145 games? He has 45 points in 132 games. Dvorak averaged out to 51 points in his first 132 games. If those extra 6 points, over the better part of 2 seasons, are worth 3mil. (2.75mil to be exact) a year, would you be willing to sign a player who gives you 3-5 points a season for 2.75mil. a year? I know I wouldn't.

If you think Evans is only a SLIGHTLY better skater, either you have never skated or, maybe it's your biases you should be concerned with.

Dvorak has 82 points in his last 145 games, that is not a 30-35 point player. Stop it.

Why would you compare Dvorak's FIRST 132 Games to Evans MOST RECENT 132 games when Dvorak played those much younger???

In their last 145 games (Evans total includes playoffs) Dvorak has averaged 71% more points per game than Evans. That's a big difference.

I like Evans but he is not a middle-6 C like Dvorak, he is a bottom-6C.

Evans can be a 4th line C on my team anytime. He can even be ok as a 3C, but Dvorak is clearly, clearly better and our respective subjective opinions about their skating is less important than results.

You ar eright that cherry-picking stats is not fair, but to pro-rata to 82 games when your sample size is 60 games or more is fair.

So Caufield is a 28 goal scorer over 82 games based on all his games this year, and Dvorak is a 46 point player over 82 games based on his last 145 games (not cherry-picking), and Evans is a 27 point player over 82 games based on the same number of recent games as Dvorak.

 

[NORiculous]

Dvorak was on a 48 point pace for all games played and over 60 points under MSL.

Evans is a SLIGHTLY better skater and will be making $1.7M the next 3 years, so the difference in salary is $1M less than you said.

Meanwhile Evans is about the same age as Dvorak, and has 48 points in 145 NHL games.

Dvorak has 82 points in his last 145 games. That is not a 30-35 point guy, and is not even CLOSE to Evans. Your skewing of each fact reveals your biases.

You can’t really compare points like that because, for example, Dvorak played PP and Evans hasn’t.

You can however compare how each player drives possession vs. toughness of opposition and zone starts. When looking at those, Evans blows Dvorak out of the water.
That could mean that if you change the ice time and PP time from Dvorak to Evans and from Evans to Dvorak, the Habs are most probably a better team since Dvorak depends on good linemates but Evans doesn’t.

 

[BaseballCoach]

You can’t really compare points like that because, for example, Dvorak played PP and Evans hasn’t.

You can however compare how each player drives possession vs. toughness of opposition and zone starts. When looking at those, Evans blows Dvorak out of the water.
That could mean that if you change the ice time and PP time from Dvorak to Evans and from Evans to Dvorak, the Habs are most probably a better team since Dvorak depends on good linemates but Evans doesn’t.

There is a reason Evans does not play the PP. He is not a good enough point producer.

There is a reason why Dvorak played on a line with Mitch Marner in junior and kept up with Marner, scoring about 115 points per year for two years.

There is a reason why Dvorak went straight to the NHL from junior at age 20 while Evans had to play 118 games in the AHL even at age 22-23.

They are not comparable players offensively.

 

[Habano]

Dvorak has 82 points in his last 145 games, that is not a 30-35 point player. Stop it.

Why would you compare Dvorak's FIRST 132 Games to Evans MOST RECENT 132 games when Dvorak played those much younger???

In their last 145 games (Evans total includes playoffs) Dvorak has averaged 71% more points per game than Evans. That's a big difference.

I like Evans but he is not a middle-6 C like Dvorak, he is a bottom-6C.

Evans can be a 4th line C on my team anytime. He can even be ok as a 3C, but Dvorak is clearly, clearly better and our respective subjective opinions about their skating is less important than results.

You ar eright that cherry-picking stats is not fair, but to pro-rata to 82 games when your sample size is 60 games or more is fair.

So Caufield is a 28 goal scorer over 82 games based on all his games this year, and Dvorak is a 46 point player over 82 games based on his last 145 games (not cherry-picking), and Evans is a 27 point player over 82 games based on the same number of recent games as Dvorak.

Look, I respect your opinion and your passion for Dvorak. I just happen to disagree with your viewpoint and I think Evans can be every bit as effective as Dvorak, given the same opportunities ie. pp time, TOI and line mates, at a much lower cost. We'll agree to disagree on this one. Cheers.

 

[Nedved]

Great player. A #3 on a stanley cup contender. Can fill in when there are injuries and play a number 2 role too. I like him. I hope he likes it in MTL. I want him here when we draft Wright.

 

[Vachon23]

Look, I respect your opinion and your passion for Dvorak. I just happen to disagree with your viewpoint and I think Evans can be every bit as effective as Dvorak, given the same opportunities ie. pp time, TOI and line mates, at a much lower cost. We'll agree to disagree on this one. Cheers.

I don't think it's his passion about Dvorak, it's just easy to see that Dvorak is a way better player then Evans and it's not really comparable. It's not about Dvorak being that special but his top 9 C, it's more about Evans being nothing more then a 4 line C

 

[Ghetto Sangria]

I don't think it's his passion about Dvorak, it's just easy to see that Dvorak is a way better player then Evans and it's not really comparable. It's not about Dvorak being that special but his top 9 C, it's more about Evans being nothing more then a 4 line C

Was going to post the same thing. It’s just not really solid to compare the two based on past accomplishments. DVo is ahead in every category except for skating.

That being said, I think we can all agree on Evans just seems to continue improving year after year. There’s no reason to doubt he can continue developing into a DVo level player with better skating. He just hasn’t shown that capability yet.

 

[Habano]

I don't think it's his passion about Dvorak, it's just easy to see that Dvorak is a way better player then Evans and it's not really comparable. It's not about Dvorak being that special but his top 9 C, it's more about Evans being nothing more then a 4 line C

Like I told the other poster, we'll agree to disagree.

For me he's not a way better player as you suggest. Give Evans the same opportunities as Dvorak and then we can compare. Until then, I still hold my opinion that skating can't be taught at 27 years old. Everything else can be.

We should not be paying a 3rd line C that kind of money.

 

[Vachon23]

Was going to post the same thing. It’s just not really solid to compare the two based on past accomplishments. DVo is ahead in every category except for skating.

That being said, I think we can all agree on Evans just seems to continue improving year after year. There’s no reason to doubt he can continue developing into a DVo level player with better skating. He just hasn’t shown that capability yet.

The thing though is that both have the same age and where drafted the same year (2014), so same can be said about Dvorak.

Like I told the other poster, we'll agree to disagree.

For me he's not a way better player as you suggest. Give Evans the same opportunities as Dvorak and then we can compare. Until then, I still hold my opinion that skating can't be taught at 27 years old. Everything else can be.

We should not be paying a 3rd line C that kind of money.

Evans doesn't have any tools to play on the PP though and hockey sense can't be taught either and even more that skating what Evans doesn't have.

 

[Habano]

The thing though is that both have the same age and where drafted the same year (2014), so same can be said about Dvorak.


Evans doesn't have any tools to play on the PP though and hockey sense can't be taught either and even more that skating what Evans doesn't have.

What tools does Dvorak have that get him those impressive 30-35 points a year. Hockey IQ, skating, shot, grittiness? Yeah, I don't think so lol.

 

[Vachon23]

What tools does Dvorak have that get him those impressive 30-35 points a year. Hockey IQ, skating, shot, grittiness? Yeah, I don't think so lol.

He's averaging 45 pts per season the past 3 seasons, so he's not really a 30-35 pts per year player.

Good IQ, quick release

 

[TomKosto]

Lets keep him unless someone offer a 1st+ ?

 

[Habano]

.

 

[Habano]

He's averaging 45 pts per season the past 3 seasons, so he's not really a 30-35 pts per year player.

Good IQ, quick release

You can't look at the games he didn't play and assume he would've gotten those points. If Matthews had been injured during practice after his 1st NHL game, would your average say he would've gotten 328 goals that season?

I know it's a stupid example but all I'm saying is, he hasn't done it in the 6 years he's been in the NHL. I'll be a believer and, he'll earn his salary when I see him put up close to 60 points in a full season.

Danault had seasons of 47 and 53 points while being paid 3mil. (I could be wrong on the salary) here and everyone used to shit on him. Dvorak doesn't get a free pass with less points and at 1.5 times Danault's salary.

Anyhow, it's been fun debating with you but I'm done here. Gonna watch some playoff hockey. Ciao.