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Player Discussion Christian Dvorak Part 2

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DramaticGloveSave said:
Ideally we can add a winger to pair with Wright/Cooley in the mid first via trade up. Someone like Kulich. They can plug into that Anderson spot and Anderson can replace someone else in the bottom 6.
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I always wonder where Anderson's place will be. I think the 3rd line is best. I wonder if he would play well with Rem Pitlick. The thing is Rem can make plays, but needs someone to make plays with. Not sure he's a fit with anderson.

Perhaps R. Pitlick - Dvorak - Anderson would work, or R. Pitlick - Evans - Anderson. But tend to think I'd prefer Ylonen or someone else.
 
I largely agree with @Spring in Fialta on Dvorak, rebuilding team with Suzuki and then a bunch of depth and prospects are probably going to be pretty interested in holding on to a player like this who clearly demonstrated in the 2nd half away from a historically bad coach that he's a perfectly capable middle six C. That's a nice piece to have when he's got 3 years left at a good number and is only 27, there's a lot of reasons to just keep him around until you're forced to make the decision closer to the end of the current contract.

That being said, it's a bit of a catch-22 for me where I think the fact the Canadiens are perfectly comfortable to keep him also means there's a very solid chance he gets traded. I just think the fact that it's so easy to keep him gives the Canadiens a lot of leverage and this is the kind of player most contending teams are trying to grab (a luxury 3C who can play 2C in a pinch for injuries or when you want your 2C playing wing on the 1st line to brute force tough matchups in the playoffs). He has a ton of value for the Canadiens, but he probably has more to a contender and the fact Montreal is perfectly happy to keep him if they don't get the right deal means I think someone might end up making a really strong offer for him.
 
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Dvorak is a pretty perfect stop-gap 2C if we draft Wright or Cooley this year.

If you think you can sign someone to fill that spot in free agency and get a 1st for Dvorak? I’d be willing to listen to that… but you need someone to play that 2C position for the next 2-3 years.
 
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Dvorak is a good player to keep around for a year or two. Not expensive, decent player and still some room to grow.

Also contrary to video game roster I don't think we will play a lineup full of kids next year even if we draft a center with our 1st pick.
 
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Hughes can also look if the teams that have a relatively high 1st round pick this coming draft would be willing to trade it for Dvorak. Columbus especially since they got 2 1st but also Detroit, the Islanders and Sabres could try to get a C for a playoff push
 
TesseractPrice said:
Hughes can also look if the teams that have a relatively high 1st round pick this coming draft would be willing to trade it for Dvorak. Columbus especially since they got 2 1st but also Detroit, the Islanders and Sabres could try to get a C for a playoff push
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That’s fine, but we need to replace Dvorak as well.

We can’t just put Jake Evans or Poehling at 2nd line C.

Dvorak gives the Habs a competent middle-6 Center they can pair defensively weak wingers with, and helps takes a ton of load off of Suzuki.
 
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Spring in Fialta said:
The picks are definitely not worth more than Dvorak. That's ridiculous.

Also, there is no chance that Dvorak takes you from last to 20th. This is also ridiculous.

It's completely delusional to think that an NHL team will trade a young, performing two-way center that's cost-controlled for a bunch of years in the name of improving their draft positions or a couple of picks. No team would do that unless the player wanted out.
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Young = 27 years old? Come on man your not shooting straight. lol Dvorak has 350-400 games played, played with studs like Keller and always make you think he can do more.

But it’s not coming, he won’t breakout and if someone is willing to give some good pick, he should be traded before that “maybe he breaks out” vanishes for ever.

Habs are better than 32nd, with or without Dvorak.

Picks are worth more than Dvo to the Habs, yes. There is zero point in climbing 10ish spots in the ranking. Dvo can play a part in that. The picks will help build the futur and will let some kid play.


In your response I can see that tu t’enfarges dans les fleurs du tapis mon ami. No plan, no argument just adding that everything is ridiculous and delusional with no argument whatsoever. Cool story bro.
 
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NORiculous said:
Young = 27 years old? Come on man your not shooting straight. lol Dvorak has 350-400 games played, played with studs like Keller and always make you think he can do more.

But it’s not coming, he won’t breakout and if someone is willing to give some good pick, he should be traded before that “maybe he breaks out” vanishes for ever.

Habs are better than 32nd, with or without Dvorak.

Picks are worth more than Dvo to the Habs, yes. There is zero point in climbing 10ish spots in the ranking. Dvo can play a part in that. The picks will help build the futur and will let some kid play.


In your response I can see that tu t’enfarges dans les fleurs du tapis mon ami. No plan, no argument just adding that everything is ridiculous and delusional with no argument whatsoever. Cool story bro.
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I don’t know man. He played at a 63pt pace under MSL, which is more than the center he replaced (who just had a career season at 29). There’s definitely room to grow.
 
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Frankenheimer said:
I don’t know man. He played at a 63pt pace under MSL, which is more than the center he replaced (who just had a career season at 29). There’s definitely room to grow.
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I don’t know that Dvorak grows much, is it possible he has a career year and puts up 50-55 pts? Yeah, I could see that..

His value to us right now is insulating Suzuki from taking the entire load, and should we draft a Center in this draft (which I think we will) then he’s a perfect plug until that Center is ready.

For the right package I would consider moving him though, just need to get an older Center that can fill that spot in the short term.
 
Frankenheimer said:
I don’t know man. He played at a 63pt pace under MSL, which is more than the center he replaced (who just had a career season at 29). There’s definitely room to grow.
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He has been showing/teasing a hidden gear for years… that’s why the Yotes played him with Keller, Kessel, etc. to get him going.

But he is going to turn 27 next season and he has 350-400 games in the NHL. Why would he figure it all out now?

Sometimes big guys breakout at this threshold (because they take longer) but he isn’t a big guy. That’s the last straw to hold on.

Dvo has been hot in the past. It’s all the same.

Scoring is up in the NHL so everything also needs to stay relative.

I mean it could happen, It would be great, but I don’t see it.
 
26Mats said:
I always wonder where Anderson's place will be. I think the 3rd line is best. I wonder if he would play well with Rem Pitlick. The thing is Rem can make plays, but needs someone to make plays with. Not sure he's a fit with anderson.

Perhaps R. Pitlick - Dvorak - Anderson would work, or R. Pitlick - Evans - Anderson. But tend to think I'd prefer Ylonen or someone else.
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I think Anderson is good fit on fit on the 3rd line, able to move to 1st/2nd in rough games. Main issue is that it's also the spot for Gallagher :-/
 
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NORiculous said:
He has been showing/teasing a hidden gear for years… that’s why the Yotes played him with Keller, Kessel, etc. to get him going.

But he is going to turn 27 next season and he has 350-400 games in the NHL. Why would he figure it all out now?

Sometimes big guys breakout at this threshold (because they take longer) but he isn’t a big guy. That’s the last straw to hold on.

Dvo has been hot in the past. It’s all the same.

Scoring is up in the NHL so everything also needs to stay relative.

I mean it could happen, It would be great, but I don’t see it.
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This from a pre season article about DVo:

“Lawson Crouse and Tyler Pitlick were Dvorak's most frequent linemates last season in Arizona, playing together for 107 minutes at even strength.’

Hardly played often with the likes of both Keller and Kessel who played with schmaltz a good portion of the time
 
BaseballCoach said:
Until the final year of his contract, he won't be the kind of player who is moved at the TDL. But he could have value if we wanted to move him for a player in a position of need. Problem is, right now C is one of our positions of need. I'd love to make a "free trade" for Dvorak as a 3C by getting a top-6 guy to complement Suzuki.
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Dvorak would bring a sizable return at trade deadline. A season under MSL. Habs should get another first pick in '23 draft along with a solid prospect. Along with moving 4.5 million in caproom. Very enticing to move Dvorak.

I think they may move either Edmundston or Savard also. At trade deadline of course. Either will bring another first pick plus moves 3.5 million in caproom. With Dvorak's 4.5m makes 8 million in caproom for UFA in 2023 off season. Along with 4 first picks in stacked '23 Draft.

If Habs are out of playoff picture at trade deadline this is. But I can't see them in playoff race. Montreal in tough division and Price has bad knees and three rookies on D? Doesn't sound good for next season.

Some of it will hinge if we get Shane Wright or not also. Along with is Montreal in Bedard sweepstakes at trade deadline? If we do, I see either as #2 center in Montreal as early as '23-24 season
 
Scorey Perry said:
Dvorak would bring a sizable return at trade deadline. A season under MSL. Habs should get another first pick in '23 draft along with a solid prospect. Along with moving 4.5 million in caproom. Very enticing to move Dvorak.

I think they may move either Edmundston or Savard also. At trade deadline of course. Either will bring another first pick plus moves 3.5 million in caproom. With Dvorak's 4.5m makes 8 million in caproom for UFA in 2023 off season. Along with 4 first picks in stacked '23 Draft.

If Habs are out of playoff picture at trade deadline this is. But I can't see them in playoff race. Montreal in tough division and Price has bad knees and three rookies on D? Doesn't sound good for next season.

Some of it will hinge if we get Shane Wright or not also. Along with is Montreal in Bedard sweepstakes at trade deadline? If we do, I see either as #2 center in Montreal as early as '23-24 season
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Savard and Dvorak have three years left on their deals, Edmundson two years. Trades at the TDL of guys like them are very rare, unless they are on below market value contracts like Toffoli.

Cap room for 2023-24 will not be an issue if Price is retired, because the Drouin and Byron contracts will be gone, and those three hits greatly outweigh the Caufield raise.
 
Ghetto Sangria said:
This from a pre season article about DVo:

“Lawson Crouse and Tyler Pitlick were Dvorak's most frequent linemates last season in Arizona, playing together for 107 minutes at even strength.’

Hardly played often with the likes of both Keller and Kessel who played with schmaltz a good portion of the time
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Source?

This is what I can see:
 

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Also, people saying Evans is worse then Dvorak should look at the advanced stats a little more. My eye test didn’t think so either but I’m not a professional scout so I’ll just let the numbers talk instead.

Evans played much tougher opposition (2nd toughest on the team) and drove possession very cleanly. Dvorak did not drive possession against much weaker opposition.
 
CAUFIELD said:
The draft will indicate a lot I think.

If the habs draft a C at this draft (Wright), I could see Dvorak traded in the next 2 years. Dvorak value will probably be high and I think evans is a 3rd line C if he can stay healthy.

In 2 years at C
Suzuki
Wright
Evans

If the Habs draft a Winger (Slaf) or DEfenseman (Nemec,Jiricek)

I could see Dvorak sticking with the team longer because we really have nothing in the pipeline atm.

Suzuki
Dvorak
Evans
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Dvorak should be 3rd

Suzuki
UFA/TRADE
Dvorak
Evans

We need to get a real 2nd line center
 
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Ghetto Sangria said:
It was an Athletic article that claimed it along with an interview by Rick Tocchet saying he formed this line to specifically match up against top competition.

theathletic.com

What the Canadiens should expect from Christian Dvorak: Breaking down his game with former coach Rich Tocchet

Guided by Tocchet, and complemented by our own video observations, let's take a closer look at Dvorak's game.
theathletic.com theathletic.com
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Ok thanks. It was from September 13th 2021 so if you look at what I previously posted, you will see that line (Crouse, Dvo, Pit) in the 1st quarter but it did not hold long.
 
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NORiculous said:
Ok thanks. It was from September 13th 2021 so if you look at what I previously posted, you will see that line (Crouse, Dvo, Pit) in the 1st quarter but it did not hold long.
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September 13 2021 was just before the start of his season with the habs.

In your graph I see a lot of lining up woth Crouse, pitlick or both. Hardly world beaters is what I am saying. He didnt pad his stats with OP linemates and was matched up against the best according to his own coach
 
Rob Sense said:
A 50+ point center who can notch 20 or so goals and be north of 50% on faceoffs has a place on a building team. No question. KK did not come close to that (including this year) and maybe never will.
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There was the possibility that Arizona dropped him to further their tank, but they’d probably have kept him if they saw value, he’s young enough to play post tank. He put up decent offensive numbers this year, but he doesn’t really fit with the habs, either. Maybe there is a fit out there but I don’t see it. KK might put up worse stats so far but he would be more useful for the Canadiens.
 
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