Player Discussion Christian Dvorak Part 2

[NORiculous]

September 13 2021 was just before the start of his season with the habs.

In your graph I see a lot of lining up woth Crouse, pitlick or both. Hardly world beaters is what I am saying. He didnt pad his stats with OP linemates and was matched up against the best according to his own coach

The order of the lines matters. The line he played most for the first 3 quarters had either Kessel or Keller.

I went to check his advanced stats of that year (because I could not remember) and he did have tough opposition but did not drive possession (as I would of guessed).

That year, Pitlick actually had tougher opposition and drove possession. So Dvorak probably benefited from his time with Pitlick.

I have been following Dvorak for years because I have had him in a keeper since 2017. I was following what the ARZ fans were saying about him, who were his linemates, what his coache though if his play, etc.

If the Habs can get a good pick for him… it’s a good idea. He can get hot and then people think he can do that for a full year but I don’t think he ever will. Why would that change at 27 and after 350-400 NHL games?

 

[Prairie Habs]

There was the possibility that Arizona dropped him to further their tank, but they’d probably have kept him if they saw value, he’s young enough to play post tank. He put up decent offensive numbers this year, but he doesn’t really fit with the habs, either. Maybe there is a fit out there but I don’t see it. KK might put up worse stats so far but he would be more useful for the Canadiens.

Doesn't the whole Chychrun saga disprove that? They are trading anything with value, regardless of age.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Young = 27 years old? Come on man your not shooting straight. lol Dvorak has 350-400 games played, played with studs like Keller and always make you think he can do more.

But it’s not coming, he won’t breakout and if someone is willing to give some good pick, he should be traded before that “maybe he breaks out” vanishes for ever.

Habs are better than 32nd, with or without Dvorak.

Picks are worth more than Dvo to the Habs, yes. There is zero point in climbing 10ish spots in the ranking. Dvo can play a part in that. The picks will help build the futur and will let some kid play.


In your response I can see that tu t’enfarges dans les fleurs du tapis mon ami. No plan, no argument just adding that everything is ridiculous and delusional with no argument whatsoever. Cool story bro.

Dude, he just turned 26, not 37. He's what, early into his mid-career, at worst? This reads like an HF parody.

And what constitutes a good pick to you? What kind do you think you'll get for Dvorak? Is that pick likely to even just replace what you already have, years down the road? To me, I wouldn't trade him if he even just keeps his current pace, which is .6. Those picks are absolutely not worth more to the Habs or else they'd be a lot of chatter around Dvorak getting traded. There isn't any, you know why? Because management isn't daft enough to let Suzuki sink with an entire load.

You deal Dvorak and you're looking at spending other assets to refill the hole you've just created (because as much as you want to, no NHL team would run with Evans/Poehling as 2C) to scoop up like, a low 1st when you already have a couple of them in the next drafts. You just heard HuGo yesterday - they're not interested in running kids to the ground by giving them all heavy minutes right away. Because they're not pick fetishizers, they're looking to have good veterans around (not stictly placeholders) for their younger players. Dvorak perfectly fills that role and is young enough that him still being an asset when we're winning more games is to be considered. They're not going to give that up to try and game drafting position or a low 1st or whatever. Because it's f***ing stupid.

So, there, here's my reasoning and yes, you post was delusional and ridiculous. No question about it.
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Doesn't the whole Chychrun saga disprove that? They are trading anything with value, regardless of age.

Yes, because the Coyotes are a total trashcan of a franchise.

 

[NORiculous]

Doesn't the whole Chychrun saga disprove that? They are trading anything with value, regardless of age.

Habs should offer something tangible for Keller. The Weber contract should actually be something they are interested in which could be added to a huge package for Keller.

Imagine Wright-Keller and Suzuki-Caufield.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

The order of the lines matters. The line he played most for the first 3 quarters had either Kessel or Keller.

I went to check his advanced stats of that year (because I could not remember) and he did have tough opposition but did not drive possession (as I would of guessed).

That year, Pitlick actually had tougher opposition and drove possession. So Dvorak probably benefited from his time with Pitlick.

I have been following Dvorak for years because I have had him in a keeper since 2017. I was following what the ARZ fans were saying about him, who were his linemates, what his coache though if his play, etc.

If the Habs can get a good pick for him… it’s a good idea. He can get hot and then people think he can do that for a full year but I don’t think he ever will. Why would that change at 27 and after 350-400 NHL games?

If you were following what Coyotes fans were saying about him, you'd know they adored him. They hated the return they got for him and wanted to keep him on the team. I don't think you actually know the player and I don't know how anyone who has seen him play since Ducharme got fired should think the guy should get unloaded. He's the probably the player this board has the worst read on, which is really saying something.

 

[NORiculous]

Dude, he just turned 26, not 37. He's what, early into his mid-career, at best? This reads like an HF parody.

And what constitutes a good pick to you? What kind do you think you'll get for Dvorak? Is that pick likely to even just replace what you already have, years down the road? To me, I wouldn't trade him if he even just keeps his current pace, which is .6. Those picks are absolutely not worth more to the Habs or else they'd be a lot of chatter around Dvorak getting traded. There isn't any, you know why? Because management isn't daft enough to let Suzuki sink with an entire load.

You deal Dvorak and you're looking at spending other assets to refill the hole you've just created (because as much as you want to, no NHL team would run with Evans/Poehling as 2C) to scoop up like, a low 1st when you already have a couple of them in the next drafts. You just heard HuGo yesterday - they're not interested in running kids to the ground by giving them all heavy minutes right away. Because they're not pick fetishizers, they're looking to have good veterans around (not stictly placeholders) for their younger players. Dvorak perfectly fills that role and is young enough that him still being an asset when we're winning more games is to be considered. They're not going to give that up to try and game drafting position. Because it's f***ing stupid.

So, there, here's my reasoning and yes, you post was delusional and ridiculous. No question about it.
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Yes, because the Coyotes are a total trashcan of a franchise.

I said he turns 27 next year where did you read 37? Don’t twist my words.

It seems you need more explanation so here it is: This year he is 26 and next year (when the Habs will play hockey again) he will turn 27.

How may players breakout at 27 with 350-400 NHL games played? Very very few. In those few, MOST of them are very big guys (or very small guys) because the big guys take longer but Dvo isn’t a big guy. So the odds of a Dvorak breakout are very very weak.

Like I said, if Evans can’t play the 3rd line C role, sign an old guy for two years and get value for Dvorak while it’s there. But right now, this past year, he (Evans) had much better advanced stats then Dvorak with tougher opposition. Those are facts and I think Evans can hold that position. You’ve stated lots of option but few solid facts.

When playing for ARZ, Dvorak had hot streaks too. But he had trouble driving play, he depends on his teammates for that. Nothing has changed since he has joined the Habs but if you haven’t followed him for long, you don’t know that.

Hughes said they won’t make a deal that is only good for next year, it has to have more range. If you weight the keep/trade Dvorak, trading him fits better with that mentality. If Habs are ready in 2-3 years Dvo would be 29-30. The pick would be 20-21.

The Habs gave other older guys to keep around. Anderson, Gallagher (not by choice but obligation), etc.

Dvorak won’t have value in one or two years because the “maybe he breaks out” will be completely gone. It’s time to trade him.
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If you were following what Coyotes fans were saying about him, you'd know they adored him. They hated the return they got for him and wanted to keep him on the team. I don't think you actually know the player and I don't know how anyone who has seen him play since Ducharme got fired should think the guy should get unloaded. He's the probably the player this board has the worst read on, which is really saying something.

Yes they liked him because they thought he was miss used and that he had that extra hidden gear.

That is why MB paid for him.

But he has had too much experience, linemates, coachs and chances. Why would he be able to put it together next year when he turns 27 considering all those chances, linemates, coachs, etc.

Odds are slim he can keep it up for a full year.

 

[Habano]

I'd take our picks back in a second but since no one is stupid enough to offer us that, play him on the 4th or maybe 3rd line and trade him if there are any takers.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

I said he turns 27 next year where did you read 37? Don’t twist my words.

It seems you need more explanation so here it is: This year he is 26 and next year (when the Habs will play hockey again) he will turn 27.

How may players breakout at 27 with 350-400 NHL games played? Very very few. In those few, MOST of them are very big guys (or very small guys) because the big guys take longer but Dvo isn’t a big guy. So the odds of a Dvorak breakout are very very weak.

Like I said, if Evans can’t play the 3rd line C role, sign an old guy for two years and get value for Dvorak while it’s there. But right now, this past year, he (Evans) had much better advanced stats then Dvorak with tougher opposition. Those are facts and I think Evans can hold that position. You’ve stated lots of option but few solid facts.

When playing for ARZ, Dvorak had hot streaks too. But he had trouble driving play, he depends on his teammates for that. Nothing has changed since he has joined the Habs but if you haven’t followed him for long, you don’t know that.

Hughes said they won’t make a deal that is only good for next year, it has to have more range. If you weight the keep/trade Dvorak, trading him fits better with that mentality. If Habs are ready in 2-3 years Dvo would be 29-30. The pick would be 20-21.

The Habs gave other older guys to keep around. Anderson, Gallagher (not by choice but obligation), etc.

Dvorak won’t have value in one or two years because the “maybe he breaks out” will be completely gone. It’s time to trade him.
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Yes they liked him because they thought he was miss used and that he had that extra hidden gear.

That is why MB paid for him.

But he has had too much experience, linemates, coachs and chances. Why would he be able to put it together next year when he turns 27 considering all those chances, linemates, coachs, etc.

Odds are slim he can keep it up for a full year.

- If you want to be a stickler about it, he turned 26 last February. He'll be 26 for the majority of the upcoming season
- Stop capping. Coyotes fans did not like him because they thought he was a potential hidden gem. They liked him because of who he already was - though they did think he could also produce more on a team that wasn't a trashcan. I don't blame them and that one is still TBD. Go back and read the threads.
- Who's the guy that you would want to sign? Look at upcoming FAs and let me know.
- Management has already said they need to keep veterans. Under that optic, Dvorak is a prime candidate to stay for a multitude of reasons that have already been stated by multiple posters. It's actually the Gallaghers of the world that we should be trying to unload, not resigning yourself to keeping them because they're paid more.
- Dvorak has value with who he is right now. He doesn't need to 'break out' to have value. How ridiculous.

As an added note: how silly does an opinion have to be to say that he was acquired because he might break out and then proceed to think that this year put that to rest? Dvorak played on the 32nd place team under a coach who had Cole Caufield at one goal in thirty games and Dvorak proceeded to ball under MSL. But now it's too late to say he can't do better? He just did.

Pick fetishizing is a bad strategy. It's time to put down the pipe.

 

[NORiculous]

- If you want to be a stickler about it, he turned 26 last February. He'll be 26 for the majority of the upcoming season
- Stop capping. Coyotes fans did not like him because they thought he was a potential hidden gem. They liked him because of who he already was - though they did think he could also produce more on a team that wasn't a trashcan. I don't blame them and that one is still TBD. Go back and read the threads.
- Who's the guy that you would want to sign? Look at upcoming FAs and let me know.
- Management has already said they need to keep veterans. Under that optic, Dvorak is a prime candidate to stay for a multitude of reasons that have already been stated by multiple posters. It's actually the Gallaghers of the world that we should be trying to unload, not resigning yourself to keeping them because they're paid more.
- Dvorak has value with who he is right now. He doesn't need to 'break out' to have value. How ridiculous.

As an added note: how silly does an opinion have to be to say that he was acquired because he might break out and then proceed to think that this year put that to rest? Dvorak played on the 32nd place team under a coach who had Cole Caufield at one goal in thirty games and Dvorak proceeded to ball under MSL. But now it's too late to say he can't do better? He just did.

Pick fetishizing is a bad strategy. It's time to put down the pipe.

If we can find someone that wants Gallagher, sure, but I would not pay to unload him. Not right now anyway. He is still a vet presence, as is Anderson, Edmundson, etc. Dvo doesn’t bring anything special this team doesn’t already have.

Yotes fans did like him because of what they saw and repeatedly thought the coach was misusing him. When the coach tried him with Keller and Kessel, they were happy but it did not change his game.

Except for the occasional hot streak, nothing has changed since he has entered the league. Nothing and he turns 27 next season. (26-27 of age, what ever dude. He has 350-400 games played next season and very few breakout at that moment. You keep saying that under MSL his pace/production/game is good but that is basing your opinion on a hot streak which won’t hold for a full year because if it did hold, that would be a breakout. )

You are holding onto a hot streak idea that will fade away next year (and his track record + advanced stats + age/games played support this) But once that happens, he current value will be diminished to what it should be. So the Habs lose by not trading him now or ASAP. If you don’t see that, then that is the problem.

Also, Evans is better then Dvorak even when Dvo is “hot”.

My eye told me this but more importantly advanced stats support this. Add to the fact that keeping Dvorak does not help the rebuild, does not provide missing leadership, does not provide offense and he does not provide solidity ( not more then Evans, anyway). It’s good asset management to trade him now.

You can use the words ridiculous/fetichising/etc. But that does not build your argument. Tell me why Evans is worse and prove it with facts, tell me why his play under MSL isn’t a hot streak and brings in numbers to back it up. You haven’t done that because there is nothing solid to backup your opinion.

 

[Prairie Habs]

If we can find someone that wants Gallagher, sure, but I would not pay to unload him. Not right now anyway. He is still a vet presence, as is Anderson, Edmundson, etc. Dvo doesn’t bring anything special this team doesn’t already have.

Yotes fans did like him because of what they saw and repeatedly thought the coach was misusing him. When the coach tried him with Keller and Kessel, they were happy but it did not change his game.

Except for the occasional hot streak, nothing has changed since he has entered the league. Nothing and he turns 27 next season. (26-27 of age, what ever dude. He has 350-400 games played next season and very few breakout at that moment. You keep saying that under MSL his pace/production/game is good but that is basing your opinion on a hot streak which won’t hold for a full year because if it did hold, that would be a breakout. )

You are holding onto a hot streak idea that will fade away next year (and his track record + advanced stats + age/games played support this) But once that happens, he current value will be diminished to what it should be. So the Habs lose by not trading him now or ASAP. If you don’t see that, then that is the problem.

Also, Evans is better then Dvorak even when Dvo is “hot”.

My eye told me this but more importantly advanced stats support this. Add to the fact that keeping Dvorak does not help the rebuild, does not provide missing leadership, does not provide offense and he does not provide solidity ( not more then Evans, anyway). It’s good asset management to trade him now.

You can use the words ridiculous/fetichising/etc. But that does not build your argument. Tell me why Evans is worse and prove it with facts, tell me why his play under MSL isn’t a hot streak and brings in numbers to back it up. You haven’t done that because there is nothing solid to backup your opinion.

I don't know if Dvo stole your girl or something, but even if he is exactly what he has been the last 3 seasons, a guy pacing for 20+ goals and 45+ points and is good defensively is absolutely fine. He paced for 63 points under MSL, but even if you include the time with DD he paced for 49 points on one of the worst offensive teams in the league. Where is the problem?

I like Evans as bottom 6 centre, but he just set a career high at 29 points and he is only 4 months younger than old man Dvorak. I know you do some sort of new math where Dvorak being 26 with 358 games played means he's 27 with 400+ games played because you don't like him and don't think he will play well between now and the arbitrary point that you think we should count as now, but you can't get mad at people when they want to use actual reality instead. I'm not sure why it needs to be one or the other between him and Evans. They can both play centre for us as it stands and if we add someone either guy is capable of switching to the wing and giving us some injury insurance. Maybe you missed the parts of this season where we dressing mostly an AHL team, but its not a bad thing to have more than the absolute minimum at an important position like that.
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I'd take our picks back in a second but since no one is stupid enough to offer us that, play him on the 4th or maybe 3rd line and trade him if there are any takers.

Pretty sure if you hooked Rod Brind'amour up to a lie detector and asked if he would rather have traded that pick for KK or Dvorak you'd see that you're way off base. I understand you're mad we don't have the 30th overall pick in a not that deep draft, but it would be stupid to put a guy who paced for 49 points (63 under MSL) on the fourth line just because some fans are pouting.

Trading him now at any sort of discount would be stupid. A two way 45+ point C at his cap hit and contract is more than worth the 30th overall pick. If we are offered more than that we could look at it, but we'd be further ahead to just hang on to him.

 

[Hoochi Papa]

You can use the words ridiculous/fetichising/etc. But that does not build your argument. Tell me why Evans is worse and prove it with facts, tell me why his play under MSL isn’t a hot streak and brings in numbers to back it up. You haven’t done that because there is nothing solid to backup your opinion.

He completely lacks conversation skills, makes false assumptions and tries roundhouse kick those with his childish bluster. It's like young Marc Bergevin arrived at the midst of his puberty to defend the hiccups of his future self. But the worst part has to be that super cringy quasi-intellectual username. Think I've seen enough, had to ignore young fella.

Yours truly,

If on a Winter's Night a Traveler

 

[The Great Weal]

Unless a team offers like 2 1sts, you keep him. He's not worth 2 1sts, but there's no point in trading him for the same return the Yotes got. I'm expecting us to get Wright/Cooley and/or Bedard/Fantilli/other stud C prospect from this draft and until that young center is ready, we should keep Dvorak. Hell he might even be a good 3C.

Wright/Cooley/Bedard/Fantilli/other center
Suzuki
Dvorak
Evans

Would be the strongest center core we have had in decades.

 

[dcyhabs]

Doesn't the whole Chychrun saga disprove that? They are trading anything with value, regardless of age.

I suppose so. Burning it to the ground and tanking for years. They finished strong but they probably plan to tank for a few more seasons. I suppose it doesn't really make a difference in a 5K arena.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

If we can find someone that wants Gallagher, sure, but I would not pay to unload him. Not right now anyway. He is still a vet presence, as is Anderson, Edmundson, etc. Dvo doesn’t bring anything special this team doesn’t already have.

Yotes fans did like him because of what they saw and repeatedly thought the coach was misusing him. When the coach tried him with Keller and Kessel, they were happy but it did not change his game.

Except for the occasional hot streak, nothing has changed since he has entered the league. Nothing and he turns 27 next season. (26-27 of age, what ever dude. He has 350-400 games played next season and very few breakout at that moment. You keep saying that under MSL his pace/production/game is good but that is basing your opinion on a hot streak which won’t hold for a full year because if it did hold, that would be a breakout. )

You are holding onto a hot streak idea that will fade away next year (and his track record + advanced stats + age/games played support this) But once that happens, he current value will be diminished to what it should be. So the Habs lose by not trading him now or ASAP. If you don’t see that, then that is the problem.

Also, Evans is better then Dvorak even when Dvo is “hot”.

My eye told me this but more importantly advanced stats support this. Add to the fact that keeping Dvorak does not help the rebuild, does not provide missing leadership, does not provide offense and he does not provide solidity ( not more then Evans, anyway). It’s good asset management to trade him now.

You can use the words ridiculous/fetichising/etc. But that does not build your argument. Tell me why Evans is worse and prove it with facts, tell me why his play under MSL isn’t a hot streak and brings in numbers to back it up. You haven’t done that because there is nothing solid to backup your opinion.

This is hilarious. I think advanced stats are useful, but even the initial viewing of stats kills your UsE Da NuUmberS. Christian Dvorak has:

- The better point, goals and assist percentage and totals
- Shooting percentage
- Faceoff percentage (by something ridiculous like 8%)

And he's largely played with humps all year. All this while we all acknowledged that he's a two-way player who contributes defensively as well and engages physically and is a great forechecker and net presence offensively.

I'm 99% sure you didn't look this up because you're still bringing up age/games played, but Dvorak and Evans are born 4 months apart ( ) so I'm not sure why you're bringing up their respective age. I don't know why Dvorak having played more games should be held against him. He's been a contributor for longer.

It's also funny to say that Dvorak doesn't bring anything else that this team doesn't already have. Without him, our only center who can score above .5 becomes Nick Suzuki. I'd argue that someone like Dvorak is far more crucial that someone like Edmundson when taking into account position and scarcity in the lineup.

I have no idea why you're trying to die on this hill, but it's obvious considering the multiple responses from different posters you've received in this thread it's time to take the L and move on.
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It's honestly baffling that we still have posters who would rather have like the 30th overall pick ahead of Dvorak. There is no rational argument in which the former is more valuable than the latter and the idea would get laughed at in any serious conversation.
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He completely lacks conversation skills, makes false assumptions and tries roundhouse kick those with his childish bluster. It's like young Marc Bergevin arrived at the midst of his puberty to defend the hiccups of his future self. But the worst part has to be that super cringy quasi-intellectual username. Think I've seen enough, had to ignore young fella.

Yours truly,

If on a Winter's Night a Traveler

The username is just the title of a short story that I like. It's hilarious that you went out of your way to dunk on yourself and just proudly boast about your ignorance. My username is literally just the title of a story. There is nothing intellectual about it - only insecurity could bring about that assumption, let alone the need to voice it. I am genuinely sorry I couldn't think of something as compelling and not to mention, classy, as Hoochi Papa.

That's without getting into the Bergevin Derangement Syndrome considering I've called Bergevin a terrible GM multiple times and and largely hate his body of work (or lack thereof, as his lack of vision and inability to make the right move at the right time sunk us). Your issue is that you think anything other than criticizing every single move he's done/be against scorched earth means you like the guy. In the kindest of terms, it's an incredibly immature position.

 

[Hoochi Papa]

"The username is just the title of a short story that I like. It's hilarious that you went out of your way to dunk on yourself and just proudly boast about your ignorance. My username is literally just the title of a story. There is nothing intellectual about it - only insecurity could bring about that assumption, let alone the need to voice it. I am genuinely sorry I couldn't think of something as compelling and not to mention, classy, as Hoochi Papa.

You actually thought I wouldn't know it was a short story? Check out the beautiful little hint after "Yours truly". Yet again your pretentious little ass led you to another false assumption.

That's without getting into the Bergevin Derangement Syndrome considering I've called Bergevin a terrible GM multiple times and and largely hate his body of work (or lack thereof, as his lack of vision and inability to make the right move at the right time sunk us). Your issue is that you think anything other than criticizing every single move he's done/be against scorched earth means you like the guy. In the kindest of terms, it's an incredibly immature position.

Maybe so in your polemic black and white world. But you do share Marc's mindset what comes to lackluster 30 point scoring machines.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

You actually thought I wouldn't know it was a short story? Check out the beautiful little hint after "Yours truly". Yet again your pretentious little ass led you to another false assumption.

I thought you had me on ignore. What happened to that?

Also, if you knew it was a short story, you're more than welcome to explain what your 'hint' has to do with the piece. And I'd also love for you to explain what intellectualism has to do with Spring in Fialta. I'll wait.

Seems like I really hurt your feelings in the tank thread. I can throw you a bone if it'll make you feel better and post about how I hope we go 0-82 for the next four years and how Bergevin stole my ice cream.

 

[NORiculous]

This is hilarious. I think advanced stats are useful, but even the initial viewing of stats kills your UsE Da NuUmberS. Christian Dvorak has:

- The better point, goals and assist percentage and totals
- Shooting percentage
- Faceoff percentage (by something ridiculous like 8%)

And he's largely played with humps all year. All this while we all acknowledged that he's a two-way player who contributes defensively as well and engages physically and is a great forechecker and net presence offensively.

I'm 99% sure you didn't look this up because you're still bringing up age/games played, but Dvorak and Evans are born 4 months apart ( ) so I'm not sure why you're bringing up their respective age. I don't know why Dvorak having played more games should be held against him. He's been a contributor for longer.

It's also funny to say that Dvorak doesn't bring anything else that this team doesn't already have. Without him, our only center who can score above .5 becomes Nick Suzuki. I'd argue that someone like Dvorak is far more crucial that someone like Edmundson when taking into account position and scarcity in the lineup.

I have no idea why you're trying to die on this hill, but it's obvious considering the multiple responses from different posters you've received in this thread it's time to take the L and move on.
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It's honestly baffling that we still have posters who would rather have like the 30th overall pick ahead of Dvorak. There is no rational argument in which the former is more valuable than the latter and the idea would get laughed at in any serious conversation.
[automerge]1651432576[/automerge]


The username is just the title of a short story that I like. It's hilarious that you went out of your way to dunk on yourself and just proudly boast about your ignorance. My username is literally just the title of a story. There is nothing intellectual about it - only insecurity could bring about that assumption, let alone the need to voice it. I am genuinely sorry I couldn't think of something as compelling and not to mention, classy, as Hoochi Papa.

That's without getting into the Bergevin Derangement Syndrome considering I've called Bergevin a terrible GM multiple times and and largely hate his body of work (or lack thereof, as his lack of vision and inability to make the right move at the right time sunk us). Your issue is that you think anything other than criticizing every single move he's done/be against scorched earth means you like the guy. In the kindest of terms, it's an incredibly immature position.

Evans played tougher opposition then Dvorak and clearly drove play, which is something Dvorak has never done.

That is why his 350-400 games played is negative, because we know Dvorak won’t get better and he never will drive possession like Evans is currently doing against tougher opposition then what Dvorak has faced.

Give Evans a little easier opposition and a little more offence zone starts (not even as good and easy that Dvorak got) and he will produce better numbers or at least equal to what Dvorak is doing + Evans will drive possession.

You clearly do not understand advanced stats and how to apply them. This is again confirmed when you say Evans played with humps all year since he faced tougher opposition and less offensive zone starts then Dvorak.

The fact that Evans has played less just leaves room for progress. It might not come but it could. This is similar to what Dvorak has shown in past years but it is becoming less and less likely because players normally don’t find that extra gear after 350-400 games played. It comes sooner.

So we will know if Evans takes this step forward by giving him room and opportunity. He has shown he is ready for more, very ready. That is another sign that says it could be time to trade Dvorak and maximize on his perceived IMO pumped value to give room to Evansville.

You have brought zero serious facts and no logic with condescending attitude in multiple messages. I won’t even start with your shooting percentage argument.

Have a good one. Cheers,

 

[CAUFIELD]

Dvorak should be 3rd

Suzuki
UFA/TRADE
Dvorak
Evans

We need to get a real 2nd line center

Bedard next year hopefully !!

 

[Matthew McConaughay]

I would keep Dvo, he's a great third center for us.

 

[Mandala]

We should keep Dvorak until a better option. No need to trade him next year.

 

[jrom]

Next year is his last year before his NTC (no trade) kicks in for the last 2 years of his contract.

He might be moved next year because of that.

 

[Tetragrammaton]

Bedard next year hopefully !!

That’s gonna be extremely unlikely but anything can happen.

 

[Matthew McConaughay]

Bedard next year hopefully !!

If we get Wright or Cooley, we won't need Bedard.

 

[Habano]

I don't know if Dvo stole your girl or something, but even if he is exactly what he has been the last 3 seasons, a guy pacing for 20+ goals and 45+ points and is good defensively is absolutely fine. He paced for 63 points under MSL, but even if you include the time with DD he paced for 49 points on one of the worst offensive teams in the league. Where is the problem?

I like Evans as bottom 6 centre, but he just set a career high at 29 points and he is only 4 months younger than old man Dvorak. I know you do some sort of new math where Dvorak being 26 with 358 games played means he's 27 with 400+ games played because you don't like him and don't think he will play well between now and the arbitrary point that you think we should count as now, but you can't get mad at people when they want to use actual reality instead. I'm not sure why it needs to be one or the other between him and Evans. They can both play centre for us as it stands and if we add someone either guy is capable of switching to the wing and giving us some injury insurance. Maybe you missed the parts of this season where we dressing mostly an AHL team, but its not a bad thing to have more than the absolute minimum at an important position like that.
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Pretty sure if you hooked Rod Brind'amour up to a lie detector and asked if he would rather have traded that pick for KK or Dvorak you'd see that you're way off base. I understand you're mad we don't have the 30th overall pick in a not that deep draft, but it would be stupid to put a guy who paced for 49 points (63 under MSL) on the fourth line just because some fans are pouting.

Trading him now at any sort of discount would be stupid. A two way 45+ point C at his cap hit and contract is more than worth the 30th overall pick. If we are offered more than that we could look at it, but we'd be further ahead to just hang on to him.

He needs to go. Both Evans and Poehling are miles ahead in skating and they can hold their own defensively. Ability in the F/O circle can be taught and acquired by practice but you can't become a good skater at 27.

The 2 kids earn less than 25% of what Dvorak earns. Why, because he wins face-offs?

I don't know what KK has to do with discussion but I'd take him any day over Dvorak. Younger tougher and he was over 51% in the F/O circle. As much as we laughed about him falling often, he's still a better skater than Dvorak. As far as the Canes go, I don't think they would have signed KK to an 8 year extension if they didn't want him.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Evans played tougher opposition then Dvorak and clearly drove play, which is something Dvorak has never done.

That is why his 350-400 games played is negative, because we know Dvorak won’t get better and he never will drive possession like Evans is currently doing against tougher opposition then what Dvorak has faced.

Give Evans a little easier opposition and a little more offence zone starts (not even as good and easy that Dvorak got) and he will produce better numbers or at least equal to what Dvorak is doing + Evans will drive possession.

You clearly do not understand advanced stats and how to apply them. This is again confirmed when you say Evans played with humps all year since he faced tougher opposition and less offensive zone starts then Dvorak.

The fact that Evans has played less just leaves room for progress. It might not come but it could. This is similar to what Dvorak has shown in past years but it is becoming less and less likely because players normally don’t find that extra gear after 350-400 games played. It comes sooner.

So we will know if Evans takes this step forward by giving him room and opportunity. He has shown he is ready for more, very ready. That is another sign that says it could be time to trade Dvorak and maximize on his perceived IMO pumped value to give room to Evansville.

You have brought zero serious facts and no logic with condescending attitude in multiple messages. I won’t even start with your shooting percentage argument.

Have a good one. Cheers,

This is now the second time you've had trouble with reading comprehension, the first being when you thought I'd said you said Dvorak was 37. Christ. I meant that Dvorak played with humps on his wing all year. Anyways. I gave you number, you haven't and a couple of advanced stat won't prove the obviously stupid idea that Jake Evans is a better player than Christian Dvorak, who for some reason, all his positive play you want to attribute to a hot streak (one that Evans has never achieved) and which doesn't hold up statistically and especially not to the eye test.
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He needs to go. Both Evans and Poehling are miles ahead in skating and they can hold their own defensively. Ability in the F/O circle can be taught and acquired by practice but you can't become a good skater at 27.

The 2 kids earn less than 25% of what Dvorak earns. Why, because he wins face-offs?

I don't know what KK has to do with discussion but I'd take him any day over Dvorak. Younger tougher and he was over 51% in the F/O circle. As much as we laughed about him falling often, he's still a better skater than Dvorak. As far as the Canes go, I don't think they would have signed KK to an 8 year extension if they didn't want him.

Kotkaniemi is most definitely not a better player than Dvorak at this point in time. I like KK but that's a farcical take.