Player Discussion Chris Kreider: Part III

[Leonardo87]

See, now I don't.

That 7x7 figure has been floated out there for a long time.

If anything, I think there was some people who didn't think it was that, but now are slowly coming around to it.

In other words, it didn't "rise" to 7x7, it was probably always 7x7.

Which is an important aspect to consider in all of this. Nothing's actually changed --- there's just less time on the clock.

There's very little reason for the Rangers to wait until the 11th hour, let alone not even touch base with Kreider's people, if they were just going to sign him for the same deal they could've had a year ago.

It's the typical game between an agent and GM. We really don't know what the asking price is, and what he'd settle for when all is said and done. If you put yourself in CK's shoes this will be his last time to cash in on a big contract.

To add, if he truly wants to stay in NY, he'll have to compromise. There is no question about that.

 

[Edge]

It's the typical game between an agent and GM. We really don't know what the asking price is, and what he'd settle for when all is said and done. If you put yourself in CK's shoes this will be his last time to cash in on a big contract.

To add, if he truly wants to stay in NY, he'll have to compromise. There is no question about that.

You're right, we really don't know. But I do think we have a pretty good idea on what the market price is likely to be. And that market price hasn't seen any significant changes.

So again, I don't think it's Gorton's style to drag this out, only to get sign what he could've signed a year ago. Typically, if it gets to this point, there's a gap there. And that gap, more likely than not, is about dollars and years. Not leadership, or appreciation, or even trade value --- it's probably about a gap that is fairly significant. So either they close that gap, or they don't.

But I think it's important to understand that the gap we're talking about might not be insignificant. I think there are some who might think it's only a couple of hundred thousand. I suspect it could very well be several million. And the difference in those extremes has a tremendous impact on how likely compromise actually is.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

You're right, we really don't know. But I do think we have a pretty good idea on what the market price is likely to be. And that market price hasn't seen any significant changes.

So again, I don't think it's Gorton's style to drag this out, only to get sign what he could've signed a year ago. Typically, if it gets to this point, there's a gap there. And that gap, more likely than not, is about dollars and years. Not leadership, or appreciation, or even trade value --- it's probably about a gap that is fairly significant. So either they close that gap, or they don't.

But I think it's important to understand that the gap we're talking about might not be insignificant. I think there are some who might think it's only a couple of hundred thousand. I suspect it could very well be several million. And the difference in those extremes has a tremendous impact on how likely compromise actually is.

Could Gorton be holding out because he's waiting for some team to come in with an offer he can't refuse? I don't think it matters if he's signed today or ten minutes before the deadline ends. If I were Gorton, I'd wait it out for as long as possible. But if I were Gorton I would have engaged his agent by now. So, what the hell do I know?

I also can't imagine they're more than 1m a year apart. Which is a lot, but hardly insurmountable if Kreider wants to take less to stay.

 

[MetalJaws]

7 and 7, Limited NTC in the final two years.

I agree he'll be just fine into his early 30's and can slot in 3rd line as his contract ages but 7 and 7 is a bit crazy. If the Rangers offered him that and he said no I'd show him the door.

I like Kreider as much as most here and would like him to be a Ranger for a while. I don't think the Rangers have cap issues after next year. Lots of relief upcoming and seemingly a bunch of 2 or 3 year bridges are likely. Plenty to go around.

I'm hoping the offer to keep him looks something like $6.25 x 6. For the full term $5.5 x 7 full NMC.

He's likely to get a stupid deal elsewhere, but he won't be a Ranger. See how much he wants to be here. If he wants to chase cash so be it. I'm sure his agent knows exactly where they need to be to make it happen.

Bright side if he splits is Chytil and Kakko will likely take another step.

Kravtsov could change everything.

It'll be fun to watch.

 

[Crease]

Bright side if he splits is Chytil and Kakko will likely take another step.

Kravtsov could change everything.

It'll be fun to watch.

I'm torn because I expect the team to be worse next year without Kreider. Chytil, Kakko, and Kravstov have tons of potential, yes. But it took Chytil about 100 games just to become a net positive player. I don't expect any of them to replace Kreider's production next year. And if the goal is to be more competitive the Rangers should be trying to add not replace.

 

[Edge]

Could Gorton be holding out because he's waiting for some team to come in with an offer he can't refuse? I don't think it matters if he's signed today or ten minutes before the deadline ends. If I were Gorton, I'd wait it out for as long as possible. But if I were Gorton I would have engaged his agent by now. So, what the hell do I know?

I also can't imagine they're more than 1m a year apart. Which is a lot, but hardly insurmountable if Kreider wants to take less to stay.

I think if that were the case, my gut says there's at least some dialogue back and forth between camps --- which you touched on. Taking out my preferences, and going solely off numbers that are out there, Gorton's history, comments of people closer to the situation, and the approach that's been reported thus far, it definitely paints a picture that would at least indicate that they may not be close.

As for as how close, I would agree that's it's probably not more than a million dollar difference. But it could be up to a million, and that's assuming they are in agreement about years --- which adds another wrinkle.

So let's even say it's 7x7 vs. 6.5 x 6.

You read that and it really doesn't look like much. Your gut reaction is to say, "Yeah, they can probably bridge that."

But then you realize that difference is actually a $10 million dollar difference, when you factor in $500k over 6 six years, and a missing 7th year at $7 million.

Now you start getting into some serious gaps. And that's really my only point here --- acknowledging that what seems like a small gap on the surface, could actually be pretty big. So we just need to consider that when we use the word "compromise." It might not be as easy as we hope.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

I think if that were the case, my gut says there's at least some dialogue back and forth between camps --- which you touched on. Taking out my preferences, and going solely off numbers that are out there, Gorton's history, comments of people closer to the situation, and the approach that's been reported thus far, it definitely paints a picture that would at least indicate that they may not be close.

As for as how close, I would agree that's it's probably not more than a million dollar difference. But it could be up to a million, and that's assuming they are in agreement about years --- which adds another wrinkle.

So let's even say it's 7x7 vs. 6.5 x 6.

You read that and it really doesn't look like much. Your gut reaction is to say, "Yeah, they can probably bridge that."

But then you realize that difference is actually a $10 million dollar difference, when you factor in $500k over 6 six years, and a missing 7th year at $7 million.

Now you start getting into some serious gaps. And that's really my only point here --- acknowledging that what seems like a small gap on the surface, could actually be pretty big. So we just need to consider that when we use the word "compromise." It might not be as easy as we hope.

One million a year over 7 years does seem like a lot. But he's already made like 20+ million from his last two deals? 40 something million plus his previous contracts puts him at around 65m over the course of his career. That's is an outrageous amount of money for one person. For me, if he wants to stay it's going to be on him. Wanna stay? We can pay you 42m and make you a Ranger lifer, you want 7, you can go play in front of the retired Ranger fans down in Sunrise. He doesn't strike me as the kind of guy that won't take a penny less to stay in a place where he seems, by all accounts, pretty happy.

 

[Edge]

One million a year over 7 years does seem like a lot. But he's already made like 20+ million from his last two deals? 40 something million plus his previous contracts puts him at around 65m over the course of his career. That's is an outrageous amount of money for one person. For me, if he wants to stay it's going to be on him. Wanna stay? We can pay you 42m and make you a Ranger lifer, you want 7, you can go play in front of the retired Ranger fans down in Sunrise. He doesn't strike me as the kind of guy that won't take a penny less to stay in a place where he seems, by all accounts, pretty happy.

And he very well could.

Likewise, for all we know, the Rangers might not want to go above $36-$40 on the deal, and so that gap could be $9 million.

I went with 6x6.5 vs 7x7 becuase one represents a number that doesn't seem insanely low, and the other the suspected market price.

But, be it $7 million, $10 million, whatever, that's a lot of money to leave on the table.

I wouldn't hold it against Kreider if he felt that was too much compromise on his end. Likewise, I wouldn't fault the Rangers if they didn't want to go above $36-$42 million.

 

[leetch99]

Going to go with the assumption that players that are considered second line players on good teams are not going be considered as being THE prize as the TDL is closing in.

Brian Burke gave his opinion on CK last night on Sportsnet before the game and he said Kreider was the best practice player out there[sarcastically I should add] ....and that he would not be the most sought after UFA at the trade deadline .

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

And he very well could.

Likewise, for all we know, the Rangers might not want to go above $36-$40 on the deal, and so that gap could be $9 million.

I went with 6x6.5 vs 7x7 becuase one represents a number that doesn't seem insanely low, and the other the suspected market price.

But, be it $7 million, $10 million, whatever, that's a lot of money to leave on the table.

I wouldn't hold it against Kreider if he felt that was too much compromise on his end. Likewise, I wouldn't fault the Rangers if they didn't want to go above $36-$42 million.

For sure. But just looking around the league and at his point production, you have to figure the agent is looking for 7 and the Rangers are looking around 6. Anything more or less from either side is unreasonable. Again, if they want the massive payday, they won't get here. But he won't be playing here.

 

[Edge]

Again, if they want the massive payday, they won't get here. But he won't be playing here.

^^^ This^^^

Kreider's attributes are important. And debating what this team looks like is important. All of the points people have said on behalf of Kreider make sense.

But ultimately, it is quite probable that this decision will come down to the money and term. I do not think the Rangers want to go to $7 million or $49 million.

If I had to guess, I'm going to say their line is at $40 million-$42 million.

That is my best guess on the gap right now. If I'm right, it's going to be hard to bridge. If I'm wrong, I would be somewhat surprised because I think it would've resolved by now.

So that's where I'm at, from a neutral standpoint that doesn't advocate for or against signing him.

 

[MetalJaws]

I'm torn because I expect the team to be worse next year without Kreider. Chytil, Kakko, and Kravstov have tons of potential, yes. But it took Chytil about 100 games just to become a net positive player. I don't expect any of them to replace Kreider's production next year. And if the goal is to be more competitive the Rangers should be trying to add not replace.

I'm hoping any trade involving Kreider would return something like a mid 6 winger at least, among other things.

It's possible that Kakko can replace Kreiders 50pts next year just himself. It's more of that Speed and size/net front presence that'll suck to be without.

Should be a wild 3 weeks.

 

[NYRangers0723]

I'm hoping any trade involving Kreider would return something like a mid 6 winger at least, among other things.

It's possible that Kakko can replace Kreiders 50pts next year just himself. It's more of that Speed and size/net front presence that'll suck to be without.

Should be a wild 3 weeks.

nobody is trading a top 6 winger for a rental. That’s why I keep saying the return you get will never replace CK. You are gonna get a late first and an ok prospect maybe. If Gorton could fine a way to get a decent return THEN resign Jreider then it’s a big win but losing Kreider is gonna leave a big hole in our lineup

 

[IronBloodedLion]

I’m going to be so sad when/if Kreider is traded. I know it’s the right thing to do for the future of the franchise, but man I just love the way he plays the game.

 

[ThirdEye]

He's been an absolute beast lately. Unfortunately we're all aware of his disappearing act.

I think on a team like Boston though he'll absolutely flourish. Especially since he's a MA kid. To me he's a much better add than Hayes at the deadline

 

[The Crypto Guy]

He's been an absolute beast lately. Unfortunately we're all aware of his disappearing act.

I think on a team like Boston though he'll absolutely flourish. Especially since he's a MA kid. To me he's a much better add than Hayes at the deadline

By reading this thread, it would be apparent a handful of posters have totally forgotten about it. He's one of the most frustrating players to watch when he's in his weeks long disappearing acts.

Not surprising he's playing balls to the wall every game now that he's up for a huge payday in a few months. This is his one and only chance to really cash in on a monster contract, and other people think he will take some ridiculous hometown discount? C'on.

 

[Harbour Dog]

By reading this thread, it would be apparent a handful of posters have totally forgotten about it. He's one of the most frustrating players to watch when he's in his weeks long disappearing acts.

Not surprising he's playing balls to the wall every game now that he's up for a huge payday in a few months. This is his one and only chance to really cash in on a monster contract, and other people think he will take some ridiculous hometown discount? C'on.

To be fair, I do think that he will come down a fair bit below market price in order to stay here.

But I'd still trade him at the deadline anyway.

 

[broadwayblue]

To be fair, I do think that he will come down a fair bit below market price in order to stay here.

But I'd still trade him at the deadline anyway.

I don't know. I'm as big a proponent of trading him as anyone...but if he wants to sign for 6 x 6 I'll be fine with it.

 

[Uncle Dru]

nobody is trading a top 6 winger for a rental. That’s why I keep saying the return you get will never replace CK. You are gonna get a late first and an ok prospect maybe. If Gorton could fine a way to get a decent return THEN resign Jreider then it’s a big win but losing Kreider is gonna leave a big hole in our lineup

Ideal scenario, the KZB line has been driving play for 4 years now. It's worth the overpay to keep Kreider here IMO but getting some assets in the meantime would be phenomenal.

 

[Harbour Dog]

I don't know. I'm as big a proponent of trading him as anyone...but if he wants to sign for 6 x 6 I'll be fine with it.

My thing is that if he is willing to come down that much, why wouldn't he also make that deal on July 1st?

Signing him before the deadline also forfeits the return we would of got for him, and I don't see why he would change his price to be signed right now versus signed as a free agent. Security in case he gets injured in the last 30 games? Just doesn't make sense to hold onto him at the deadline to me.

 

[Calad]

Love that Larry complains that Trouba or Panarin wasn't asked to take a discount o. Their contract so why should Kreider, ignoring the fact that Panarin left millions on the table to come here, aka A DISCOUNT.

You're a hack, Larry

 

[broadwayblue]

My thing is that if he is willing to come down that much, why wouldn't he also make that deal on July 1st?

Signing him before the deadline also forfeits the return we would of got for him, and I don't see why he would change his price to be signed right now versus signed as a free agent. Security in case he gets injured in the last 30 games? Just doesn't make sense to hold onto him at the deadline to me.

Just to be clear, if he doesn't sign that deal in the next two weeks I'm dealing him at the deadline. No way I'm keeping him for a meaningless quarter of the season just to risk losing him for nothing.

 

[Sayba]

I’m going to be so sad when/if Kreider is traded. I know it’s the right thing to do for the future of the franchise, but man I just love the way he plays the game.

Is it the right thing? He is pretty much the same age as Panarin, we've seen no indication of drop in play. He was the 3rd fastest skater in the all Star game and probably 30lbs heavier than the guys who were faster.

 

[Leonardo87]

Is it the right thing? He is pretty much the same age as Panarin, we've seen no indication of drop in play. He was the 3rd fastest skater in the all Star game and probably 30lbs heavier than the guys who were faster.

This is some of the reasons why the decision is not just a no brainer to trade him as some people are making it out to be.

 

[ohbaby]

I can't take all this trade deadline drama. I will stay away from this board until next month and just enjoy CK while it lasts. Later....

 

[ecemleafs]

When hes on hes incredible. Totally tilts the ice in your favor. I'd trade him at the deadline because I really do think wed get a kings ransom at this point but I'd definitely let him know we are interested in resigning him in july. Hes a 1st line LW and is playing better now than he ever has.