Champions Hockey League for 2021/2022

[OskarOskarius]

In earlier, better paid competitions, Swedish teams were nowhere near competitive. It's a financial thing as Swiss teams are operating with about 4 times higher budgets and some KHL teams have even more. Of course priorities are different. The prize money of the current competition may be interesting for Scandinavian teams but it's no more than tips for teams operating with 4 or 5 times higher budgets.

That was a long time ago prior to SHL and the increased budgets that followed including lower tax rates for foreign players. Further on if you look at the final the Swiss team (Lions) they had:

Ari Sulander (Finland)
Radoslav Suchy (Slovakia)
Ryan Gardner (Canada)
Domenico Pittis (Canada)
Jean-Guy Trudel (Canada)
Blain Down (Canada)
Jan Alston (Canada)
Alexei Krytov (Russia)

So half their rooster were foreign players, so different situation compared with today. SHL is stronger than NL due to NL cap on foreign players.

Prize money is tiny for SHL teams as well. Just silly excuse from your part.

 

[OskarOskarius]

I told you already. The top clubs range from 15 to 20+ millions...essentially probably more because most clubs (except Bern) have private investors pumping money into clubs in order to acquire and pay players. There are a few clubs operating with a budget around 10 millions but that usually won't get you very far. I believe in Sweden, top teams are usually still around 5 millions. Correct me if I'm wrong.

It’s higher than that.

Brynäs 103,6 miljoner
Linköping 99,8 miljoner
Växjö 92,7 miljoner
Rögle 85,6 miljoner (2:a plats)
Leksand 83,5 miljoner (3:e plats)
HV71 81,9 miljoner (14:e plats)
Färjestad 80,8 miljoner (8:e plats)
Luleå 79,1 miljoner (5:e plats)
Frölunda 78,6 miljoner (7:e plats)
Djurgården 78,0 miljoner (10:e plats)
Örebro 77,4 miljoner (6:e plats)
Skellefteå 65,7 miljoner (4:e plats)
Malmö 60,4 miljoner (9:e plats)
Oskarshamn 50,3 miljoner (11:e plats)

Så mycket betalade SHL-lagen ut i löner

 

[Hinterland]

It’s higher than that.

Brynäs 103,6 miljoner
Linköping 99,8 miljoner
Växjö 92,7 miljoner
Rögle 85,6 miljoner (2:a plats)
Leksand 83,5 miljoner (3:e plats)
HV71 81,9 miljoner (14:e plats)
Färjestad 80,8 miljoner (8:e plats)
Luleå 79,1 miljoner (5:e plats)
Frölunda 78,6 miljoner (7:e plats)
Djurgården 78,0 miljoner (10:e plats)
Örebro 77,4 miljoner (6:e plats)
Skellefteå 65,7 miljoner (4:e plats)
Malmö 60,4 miljoner (9:e plats)
Oskarshamn 50,3 miljoner (11:e plats)

Så mycket betalade SHL-lagen ut i löner

Still, that's not even half of the NL clubs budget and KHL teams obviously have even more. Again, this explains why SHL teams are more interested in that competition than teams with higher budgets.

 

[Fjorden]

In earlier, better paid competitions, Swedish teams were nowhere near competitive. It's a financial thing as Swiss teams are operating with about 4 times higher budgets and some KHL teams have even more. Of course priorities are different. The prize money of the current competition may be interesting for Scandinavian teams but it's no more than tips for teams operating with 4 or 5 times higher budgets.

Salaries in the Swiss NL is inflated due to the low number of foreign players allowed. Allowing only 4 import players is to few to be comeptitive against SHL teams. Even teams from DEL does better than NL teams as they allow more international players. Swiss NL teams have to pay high salaries for relatively mediocre homegrown players. In SHL they have a much bigger pool of good homegrown players and junior players, and they also allow more imports so they have a higher number of good international players as well

 

[Slimmy]

No. I was talking about NL, not SL. Obviously, SL teams don't play Chl. The numbers I mentioned in my last post already.

SHL. That is the Swedish Hockey League. Pay attention.

 

[Hinterland]

Salaries in the Swiss NL is inflated due to the low number of foreign players allowed. Allowing only 4 import players is to few to be comeptitive against SHL teams. Even teams from DEL does better than NL teams as they allow more international players. Swiss NL teams have to pay high salaries for relatively mediocre homegrown players. In SHL they have a much bigger pool of good homegrown players and junior players, and they also allow more imports so they have a higher number of good international players as well

Even if that were true (I don't think it is) the point remains that it's about money. SHL clubs care about that competition because for them, prize money is interesting while for other teams it's just tips. That competition never got any traction here in Switzerland. Those games never got past exhibition games status. Teams keep on resting their best players and stadiums were empty even pre covid and even if they're sold out for league games. That's just the reality. And the only way to change it is money.

 

[Hinterland]

SHL. That is the Swedish Hockey League. Pay attention.

You were talking about SL, Swiss League.

 

[vorky]

Even if that were true (I don't think it is) the point remains that it's about money. SHL clubs care about that competition because for them, prize money is interesting while for other teams it's just tips. That competition never got any traction here in Switzerland. Those games never got past exhibition games status. Teams keep on resting their best players and stadiums were empty even pre covid and even if they're sold out for league games. That's just the reality. And the only way to change it is money.

Fun fact.

I do not have time to check all details, but guessing the attendance of CHL games in Sweden is even lower than CHL games in Switzerland.

 

[Slimmy]

The only way to get teams interested is to offer more money. Top NL and KHL teams are operating with over four times the budget of the top SHL teams. St.Petersburg has even more. So of course the current tournament isn't interesting for NL teams and KHL doesn't even take part. The old tournament was more attractive because prize money was over three times higher.

You claim top NL teams has 4 times the player budget of top SHL teams. Where are the numbers for this? What are your sources?

 

[Slimmy]

You were talking about SL, Swiss League.

I was talking about the top Swiss league participating in the CHL => NL.

 

[Slimmy]

Even if that were true (I don't think it is) the point remains that it's about money. SHL clubs care about that competition because for them, prize money is interesting while for other teams it's just tips. That competition never got any traction here in Switzerland. Those games never got past exhibition games status. Teams keep on resting their best players and stadiums were empty even pre covid and even if they're sold out for league games. That's just the reality. And the only way to change it is money.

You're talking out of your ass. What are the numbers? Where's your sources?

 

[Elias40]

Fun fact.

I do not have time to check all details, but guessing the attendance of CHL games in Sweden is even lower than CHL games in Switzerland.

In the group stage, the interest of the spectators is small, it is different in the case of the playoffs, which will interest Swedish fans more. There are also more junior players in the group stage, even so it is usually enough to advance from the group.

 

[Hinterland]

You're talking out of your ass. What are the numbers? Where's your sources?

Matches
Matches

Game Center National League

Compare those numbers from knockout CHL games with the regular season attendance
Nobody gives a damn about that competition in Switzerland and it used to be fundamentally different back when there was some money in it.

 

[Elias40]

Even if that were true (I don't think it is) the point remains that it's about money. SHL clubs care about that competition because for them, prize money is interesting while for other teams it's just tips. That competition never got any traction here in Switzerland. Those games never got past exhibition games status. Teams keep on resting their best players and stadiums were empty even pre covid and even if they're sold out for league games. That's just the reality. And the only way to change it is money.

If I understand your view of things as a Swiss, then you don't want to see how your team from your league handles each other in the only possible competition due to confrontation? This then reinforces the impression that Swiss clubs only want to play their competition in order to establish how good it is and how many foreigners from Sweden, Finland or those who fail in the NHL and do not want to play in the AHL. So they go to Switzerland for the money ... and if the Swiss didn't pay so much to foreigners, they would rather choose the KHL and then return north. Frölunda is happy to be able to play against teams from Switzerland, Germany or the Czech Republic, among other things it also helps younger players in their development. Although this is far from the key to their development, they are still happy to have the confrontation.

 

[Slimmy]

Matches
Matches

Game Center National League

Compare those numbers from knockout CHL games with the regular season attendance
Nobody gives a damn about that competition in Switzerland and it used to be fundamentally different back when there was some money in it.

You think attendance for CHL games in Sweden is better than Switzerland? You have this warped view that the tourney is selling out tickets in other poor little backwards hockey countries while Swizz scoff at the tourney. You're an idiot. Where are the hard numbers for the player budgets that you pull out of your ass?

 

[Hinterland]

Fun fact.

I do not have time to check all details, but guessing the attendance of CHL games in Sweden is even lower than CHL games in Switzerland.

Totally. It's not just CHL though. Many of their stadiums are empty for SHL games as well and clubs fail to generate money which is surprising looking at the standing hockey has in the country. It's odd. Swedish hockey federation and clubs are extremely professional on the sports side but they appear to be absolutely horrible on the business side. Attendance and budgets should be way higher.

 

[Hinterland]

If I understand your view of things as a Swiss, then you don't want to see how your team from your league handles each other in the only possible competition due to confrontation? This then reinforces the impression that Swiss clubs only want to play their competition in order to establish how good it is and how many foreigners from Sweden, Finland or those who fail in the NHL and do not want to play in the AHL. So they go to Switzerland for the money ... and if the Swiss didn't pay so much to foreigners, they would rather choose the KHL and then return north. Frölunda is happy to be able to play against teams from Switzerland, Germany or the Czech Republic, among other things it also helps younger players in their development. Although this is far from the key to their development, they are still happy to have the confrontation.

It's about what helps you pay your bills, nothing else. We all wish it would be different but in the end hockey is not just about sport but also about business. If there's significantly less money in the CHL than in your domestic league then why would you invest into that competition? If you invest, there has to be a reward. If the reward isn't worth the trouble, you focus on what actually pays your bills.

Triple the prize money and you get an actual best on best tournament. With the current prize money, it's not gonna happen.

 

[vorky]

You think attendance for CHL games in Sweden is better than Switzerland? You have this warped view that the tourney is selling out tickets in other poor little backwards hockey countries while Swizz scoff at the tourney. You're an idiot. Where are the hard numbers for the player budgets that you pull out of your ass?

Regarding the bold, I found an interview with Peter Zahner (ZSC) to Forbes in 2018. He says, ZSC has a budget of 32 million francs, including all junior & kids teams. ZSC budget for NL team is 22 million francs, that includes around 12 million francs on players salaries. Lowest budget for players salaries in NL is around 6-7 million francs.

 

[Elias40]

It's about what helps you pay your bills, nothing else. We all wish it would be different but in the end hockey is not just about sport but also about business. If there's significantly less money in the CHL than in your domestic league then why would you invest into that competition? If you invest, there has to be a reward. If the reward isn't worth the trouble, you focus on what actually pays your bills.

Triple the prize money and you get an actual best on best tournament. With the current prize money, it's not gonna happen.

But this is badly set up if Swiss clubs are only thinking about how much money they will have from playing CL. There aren't enough of those matches in a season that would significantly disrupt their league program, under normal circumstances, not now because of a pandemic. Swedish clubs work with less money, yet they look at CL in the first place so that they want a confrontation on the ice, it is not primary for them how much prize money they receive. I have the impression that Swiss clubs do not have the same sporting quality as Swedish clubs, and if they drop out, they will say that NL is a priority.

If I'm a real fan of my club, then I want my team to win every match of the season. And it doesn't matter if it's against Lugano, Lulea or Visp.

 

[Hinterland]

Regarding the bold, I found an interview with Peter Zahner (ZSC) to Forbes in 2018. He says, ZSC has a budget of 32 million francs, including all junior & kids teams. ZSC budget for NL team is 22 million francs, that includes around 12 million francs on players salaries. Lowest budget for players salaries in NL is around 6-7 million francs.

Here's a pretty good summary:

Les budgets des clubs de Nationale League (ex-LNA)

Ajoie and SCL Tigers are in that 7 millions area but as you can see looking at the standings, that doesn't get you very far. Davos, Ambri and Rapperswil are operating with around 10 millions. Olten would be somewhere in between should they get promoted. All other teams are usually around 15 millions at least and up to or sometimes even over 20 millions.

 

[Hinterland]

But this is badly set up if Swiss clubs are only thinking about how much money they will have from playing CL. There aren't enough of those matches in a season that would significantly disrupt their league program, under normal circumstances, not now because of a pandemic. Swedish clubs work with less money, yet they look at CL in the first place so that they want a confrontation on the ice, it is not primary for them how much prize money they receive. I have the impression that Swiss clubs do not have the same sporting quality as Swedish clubs, and if they drop out, they will say that NL is a priority.

If I'm a real fan of my club, then I want my team to win every match of the season. And it doesn't matter if it's against Lugano, Lulea or Visp.

It's all about money. Hockey is business. That's why KHL doesn't participate in this one despite dominating previous competitions.

 

[swissdude]

Swiss NL teams have to pay high salaries for relatively mediocre homegrown players. In SHL they have a much bigger pool of good homegrown players and junior players, and they also allow more imports so they have a higher number of good international players as well

WITH REGARD TO THE SL
high salaries for relatively mediocre homegrown players => TRUE
allow more imports so they have a higher number of good international players => AS MEDIOCRE AS THE HOMEGROWN BUT CHEAPER AND CERTAINLY BAD FOR THE DEVELOPMENT OF LOCAL PLAYERS

 

[Elias40]

It's all about money. Hockey is business. That's why KHL doesn't participate in this one despite dominating previous competitions.

Of course, hockey is a business, but I still have the impression from your answer that you live in self-deception about the quality of NL. In the first matches of the group, the Swedes calmly pass the fourth attack from the youngsters, give them time on the ice and let them play for many minutes. The Swiss have a minimum of young men, so they play with most of the best they can. And the signatures of players who no longer want to play the fourth attack in the NHL or just pay a lot more money to the Swedes and Finns in their leagues are to blame. And if the Swiss clubs drop out of the group and don't go to the playoffs, then it's easy to say that the prize money is small and that's why CL is uninteresting, so we'd rather play against Ajoie, Lausanne or Ambri. Taking the competition just according to how much money I get for participation does not seem right to me, but as I wrote, it is a good reason to fail to say that the NL match is more important.

 

[Hinterland]

Of course, hockey is a business, but I still have the impression from your answer that you live in self-deception about the quality of NL. In the first matches of the group, the Swedes calmly pass the fourth attack from the youngsters, give them time on the ice and let them play for many minutes. The Swiss have a minimum of young men, so they play with most of the best they can. And the signatures of players who no longer want to play the fourth attack in the NHL or just pay a lot more money to the Swedes and Finns in their leagues are to blame. And if the Swiss clubs drop out of the group and don't go to the playoffs, then it's easy to say that the prize money is small and that's why CL is uninteresting, so we'd rather play against Ajoie, Lausanne or Ambri. Taking the competition just according to how much money I get for participation does not seem right to me, but as I wrote, it is a good reason to fail to say that the NL match is more important.

Nobody says that. They just can't hide it. You can see that those games are a punishment for them. The top players either get the game off or limited ice time because if they'd get more, they'd half ass it anyway in order not to get hurt or waste too much energy. I don't know about the CHL tv deals but the tv deal with Swiss tv broadcaster mysports is worth 35 millions per year. That's a pretty big window and clubs get 1,6 millions per year. Of course that's their priority. Wes Brot ich ess, des Lied ich sing.

 

[Lambo]

Budget to budget here! Sweden and Finland have such an enormously strong offspring in their leagues that this balances out a lot. Switzerland, on the other hand, has slacked off enormously when it comes to youth work. If I remember correctly, 0 Swiss players were drafted in 2020 and 3 players in 2021. This is nothing. The NL mainly benefits from the foreigners. Below average NHL players who are top players in the NL etc. The budget has little meaning in Europe (outside the KHL).
Especially when it comes to the performance of a league.