Prospect Info: CBJ Prospect Thread XI

tunnelvision

Registered User
Jul 31, 2021
2,940
3,266
I see it's now trendy to make fun of people who prior to the draft claimed Dumais to be a "bad" skater but let's not pretend either that he was always a fast guy whose funny looking stride just tricked folks into thinking he was slow. Dumais himself has admitted that the critique towards his skating were deserved, at least to some extent. Judging by his own words in the articles below it sounds to me that he's just been very determined to get better at it and now we're seeing the results of his efforts in the offseason.

CHL notebook: Blue Jackets prospect Dumais' confidence, game growing
Dumais was third in the QMJHL last season with 109 points (39 goals, 70 assists) in 68 games. After the Blue Jackets selected him in the third round (No. 96) of the 2022 NHL Draft he said his biggest focus during the offseason was improving his skating.

"Just working on my stride," he said. "I definitely feel better and faster, but it's also from getting bigger in the gym and maturing too."
For Dumais (5-foot-8, 169 pounds), those changes need to be getting stronger to be able to have success in the NHL. It's something he understands, and something the Blue Jackets underlined for him before he left Columbus.

"It's pretty obvious," he said. "My whole life I've been trying to do that anyway ... There's a lot of times during the season just to get better and stronger, make sure you don't waste your time there and try to get bigger, faster, all those things."

Interview at the draft:
The size of Dumais's shoulder pads isn't the only question mark that has been making observers hesitate about him. His skating also raised doubts.

"I think he's a guy with a little different skating," LeBlanc replies. In terms of speed, he's okay, but I think his style can be deceiving. And at its size, if people have doubts about the skate, it can play a role. But to do what he did this year, it takes special talents. It makes you think that every player has weaknesses, but when the strengths are big enough to compensate, I think it's worth it. »

"A little," admitted Dumais when asked if these criticisms were deserved. But I worked on it all summer, I'm still working on it. Two to three times a week, I have a trainer just for skating . All alone on the ice for an hour or two, just working on my stride. I do a lot of work on this. »
 

tunnelvision

Registered User
Jul 31, 2021
2,940
3,266
Out of curiosity, could you add the part about his shoulder pad size??

Like others here, I need to make a fully informed decision on his true NHL potential.

Last two paragraphs of the google translated article before the "shoulder pad" part, to give you more context:
“It wasn't long since I started watching him more closely this year. I thought he showed a big improvement over last year, so right from the start he caught my eye. But at 5-foot-8, we're waiting to see if the production is good enough. It is certain that his greatness hurt him in the draft, but when I watch him play, I see a guy who has an elite sense of the game. I see a guy who fights hard for the puck despite his small frame and who also manages without the puck. He's a guy with a lot of offensive potential. »

“And his size is his size ,” concludes LeBlanc with his Acadian outspokenness. There are small players who are good... and him, in my opinion, he is very good. »
 
  • Like
Reactions: thebus88

thebus88

19/20 Columbus Blue Jackets: "It Is What It Is"
Sep 27, 2017
5,284
2,870
Michigan
Last two paragraphs of the google translated article before the "shoulder pad" part, to give you more context:
Ahh, thanks. I took it much more literal, like he was out there with extremely large pads or something. I wanted to see what was actually said, clicked on the “link” and saw the language. Thanks

While Cam Atkinson never really had great puck skills, 1 thing he was exceptional at was using his skating/agility/quickness and STRENGTH, to get in close to the net to create or improve on his scoring chances.

As a small guy myself, I think this is a very important aspect that almost “makes or breaks” a smaller guys potential impact he can make on the ice, while adapting to whatever league/level. Adequate strength is needed, but, most of the impact comes from speed/timing and “IQ”. May be my “Napoleon complex” coming out, or maybe some of you with “average man syndrome” may disagree, but, having a low center of gravity and lower to the ice is actually an advantage when it comes to ice hockey. These guys aren’t jumping in the air for a ball.

Always hated guys discounted simply for size. Either the motivation/intensity/“aggression” is there, or it’s not. That’s why it’s so disheartening and essentially disrespectful to see “big” players get (extra) credit for having size, when they don’t use it to their advantage in any way, and quite literally bring LESS to a team energy/motivation wise, or even looking at total impact, than many smaller guys.
 
Last edited:

stevo61

Registered User
Jul 5, 2011
11,861
13,477
Canada
Ahh, thanks. I took it much more literal, like he was out there with extremely large pads or something. I wanted to see what was actually said, clicked on the “link” and saw the language. Thanks

While Cam Atkinson never really had great puck skills, 1 think he was exceptional at was using his skating/agility/quickness and STRENGTH, to get in close to the net to create or improve on his scoring chances.

As a small guy myself, I think this is a very important aspect that almost “makes or breaks” a smaller guys potential impact he can make on the ice, while adapting to whatever league/level. Adequate strength is needed, but, most of the impact comes from speed/timing and “IQ”. May be my “Napoleon complex” coming out, or maybe some of you with “average man syndrome” may disagree, but, having a low center of gravity and lower to the ice is actually an advantage when it comes to ice hockey. These guys aren’t jumping in the air for a ball.

Always hated guys discounted simply for size. Either the motivation/intensity/“aggression” is there, or it’s not. That’s why it’s so disheartening and essentially disrespectful to see “big” players get (extra) credit for having size, when they don’t use it to their advantage in any way, and quite literally bring LESS to a team
So what you are saying is, Jordan Dumais will be a star :naughty:

If you are small and dont have skills like elusiveness yoy are going to have injury worries among other things. Anyone being hit by guys 50lbs heavier are gonna come out on the wrong side of things everytime.Taller guys have different leverages, reach and generally strength advantages. Its not a slight at smaller guys, its reality. That cleary doesnt mean its impossible for a small guy to be a star, weve seen many and it also doesnt mean a big guy is safe from injuries we see that all the time too but if you are playing the odds and all things are equal the big guy will always be the choice.
 

thebus88

19/20 Columbus Blue Jackets: "It Is What It Is"
Sep 27, 2017
5,284
2,870
Michigan
So what you are saying is, Jordan Dumais will be a star :naughty:

If you are small and dont have skills like elusiveness yoy are going to have injury worries among other things. Anyone being hit by guys 50lbs heavier are gonna come out on the wrong side of things everytime.Taller guys have different leverages, reach and generally strength advantages. It’s not a slight at smaller guys, it’s reality. That cleary doesnt mean its impossible for a small guy to be a star, weve seen many and it also doesnt mean a big guy is safe from injuries we see that all the time too but if you are playing the odds and all things are equal the big guy will always be the choice.
See, you have what I call “average man syndrome”. The thing is, all things aren’t equal. Does a 6 foot 4 guy vs a 6 foot guy get looked at the same way?? Why isn’t the team built solely on size then?? Again, sure a thing like reach cannot be denied, and there is a weight/strength correlation. What also can’t be denied is a clear speed/agility advantage to the smaller guy in nearly every scenario here. There’s “pros” and “cons” to each body type and individual “player style”.

What also can’t be denied is where the puck is. On the ice. These aren’t football lineman going head to head or a wide receiver/basketball player jumping in the air.

Again, hockey, ice skates. I could make the case every guy 50lbs heavier is going to lose every race to the puck, and being so tall and far from the ice is the reason most of the big boys can’t handle the puck very well, Lumbering Laine being a perfect example.

But I’m not doing that am I??
 

stevo61

Registered User
Jul 5, 2011
11,861
13,477
Canada
See, you have what I call “average man syndrome”. The thing is, all things aren’t equal. Does a 6 foot 4 guy vs a 6 foot guy get looked at the same way?? Why isn’t the team built solely on size then?? Again, sure a thing like reach cannot be denied, and there is a weight/strength correlation. What also can’t be denied is a clear speed/agility advantage to the smaller guy in nearly every scenario here. There’s “pros” and “cons” to each body type and individual “player style”.

What also can’t be denied is where the puck is. On the ice. These aren’t football lineman going head to head or a wide receiver/basketball player jumping in the air.

Again, hockey, ice skates. I could make the case every guy 50lbs heavier is going to lose every race to the puck, and being so tall and far from the ice is the reason most of the big boys can’t handle the puck very well, Lumbering Laine being a perfect example.

But I’m not doing that am I??
I suppose if you want a team of Lady Byng winners than sure. Durability will always be a concern. Gaudreau is an example of a small guy with elite talents and can stay away from the rough stuff, Blankenburg has the heart of a lion and has been injured 3 times already.

You can hand pick cases to fit your opinion and I can just as easily mention guys like McDavid, Ovi, Lemieux, Hedman etc.

When the playoffs role around and the NHL forgets its own rules the speed part of the game balances out and strength advantages begin to shine. We see it every year. What did Tampa do after being swept by Columbus? They didnt go out and sign small heart and soul players, they picked up Coleman, Goodrow and Bogosian.

Skill is skill but to pretend like size doesnt have its own long list of advantages is silly.
 
Last edited:

Double-Shift Lasse

Just post better
Dec 22, 2004
34,677
15,904
Exurban Cbus
1668170679558.jpeg
 

Viqsi

"that chick from Ohio"
Oct 5, 2007
55,893
35,575
40N 83W (approx)
I suppose if you want a team of Lady Byng winners than sure. Durability will always be a concern. Gaudreau is an example of a small guy with elite talents and can stay away from the rough stuff, Blankenburg has the heart of a lion and has been injured 3 times already.

You can hand pick cases to fit your opinion and I can just as easily mention guys like McDavid, Ovi, Lemieux, Hedman etc.

When the playoffs role around and the NHL forgets its own rules the speed part of the game balances out and strength advantages begin to shine. We see it every year. What did Tampa do after being swept by Columbus? They didnt go out and sign small heart and soul players, they picked up Coleman, Goodrow and Bogosian.

Skill is skill but to pretend like size doesnt have its own long list of advantages is silly.
I think the idea that being bigger confers lots of potential advantages is being treated as a given in this debate, and that the point being made is smaller size has its own potential advantages. It's a question of what you do with what you have. Hockey is not necessarily a sport where bigger is automatically better, although the benefits are easy enough to see.
 
  • Like
Reactions: thebus88

stevo61

Registered User
Jul 5, 2011
11,861
13,477
Canada
I think the idea that being bigger confers lots of potential advantages is being treated as a given in this debate, and that the point being made is smaller size has its own potential advantages. It's a question of what you do with what you have. Hockey is not necessarily a sport where bigger is automatically better, although the benefits are easy enough to see.
And like I said, a lot of those advantages go away in the playoffs. Even with the shift in the NHL and how tight they call the game it still goes away in the playoffs. For example many fans had turned on Gaudreau for disappearing in the playoffs. This past playoffs was his 1st at a ppg pace.

Another example on the flipside was Montreals D. A group of big, slow, strong defensemen that in the regular season was a weak group and in the playoffs was the backbone of the team along with Price. It was a team that had no buisness going as far as they did and that run caused them to get a 1st for Chiarot.
 

thebus88

19/20 Columbus Blue Jackets: "It Is What It Is"
Sep 27, 2017
5,284
2,870
Michigan
I suppose if you want a team of Lady Byng winners than sure. Durability will always be a concern. Gaudreau is an example of a small guy with elite talents and can stay away from the rough stuff, Blankenburg has the heart of a lion and has been injured 3 times already.

You can hand pick cases to fit your opinion and I can just as easily mention guys like McDavid, Ovi, Lemieux, Hedman etc.

When the playoffs role around and the NHL forgets its own rules the speed part of the game balances out and strength advantages begin to shine. We see it every year. What did Tampa do after being swept by Columbus? They didnt go out and sign small heart and soul players, they picked up Coleman, Goodrow and Bogosian.

Skill is skill but to pretend like size doesnt have its own long list of advantages is silly.

Lady Byng?? My whole point is it really doesn’t matter the size of a guy, what matters is his mindset and what he ACTUALLY brings to the ice. Blankenburg and Gaudreau are on completely different levels from each other in “intensity” and “aggressiveness”, and no you don’t want Gaudreau to crash and bang like Jenner, but he could easily add more of this to his game and become better. Regarding Blankenburg, he isn’t getting hurt because he’s small, and I don’t know the exact plays where he got hurt, but, his problem is his “recklessness”. Where he could turn it down a bit, Gaudreau could turn it up, and they’d still be fine.

But, it has NOTHING to do with actual physical size. “Bigger”/“taller” guys aren’t more durable, bottom line. They have plenty of injury issues that impact bigger guys more often, look at backs specifically, especially when you want to name drop arguably the best player to ever play in Lemieux, to somehow prove a point that big guys are superior. Hilarious that you throw McDavid in there also, and Ovechkin, as if he’s not a completely unique and extremely stocky build. But, OV and Hedman will have (different) issues with a Gaudreau just as much as he does with them.

Also, it matters how a guy plays. Who uses size and strength to his advantage more, CBJ Laine or old school CBJ Matt Calvert?? f***, Jenner isn’t as big as Laine, and he plays more aggressive and uses his strength, so does Laine get looked at better just because he’s taller and weighs more??

And like I said, a lot of those advantages go away in the playoffs. Even with the shift in the NHL and how tight they call the game it still goes away in the playoffs. For example many fans had turned on Gaudreau for disappearing in the playoffs. This past playoffs was his 1st at a ppg pace.

Another example on the flipside was Montreals D. A group of big, slow, strong defensemen that in the regular season was a weak group and in the playoffs was the backbone of the team along with Price. It was a team that had no buisness going as far as they did and that run caused them to get a 1st for Chiarot.

Both your posts and the playoffs are off, imo. Your list of TB guys quite literally is
“small heart and soul” guys. Bogosion might be hard to consider “small” and plays with more of an edge (and would probably be trashed on this board as much as Gudbranson has), but again, it’s how they all play the game, the 3 of them surely weren’t added for “size” or in any “intimidating” fashion.

You’re stuck on “small” and “big”. Montreals defense (and most successful playoff teams) played hard and had smart guys back there. The difference is most of the time you aren’t going to be able to win playoff games on the powerplay. You still need players that are willing to PLAY HARD. You keep bringing up Gaudreau as if he’s the gold standard. The problem with Gaudreau isn’t because he’s small, it’s that he’s SOFT. It has nothing to do with size, Laine and plenty of bigger guys have the same exact problem, yet people continuously give them credit for the “potential” of what they could be.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Viqsi

stevo61

Registered User
Jul 5, 2011
11,861
13,477
Canada
Finally took some time to watch Dumais and part of a Mooseheads game. I dont think he was at his best when I was watching him and even then you see what makes him special. He almost looks like Gaudreau but a less dynamic skater. Hes one of those guys that when you are on the ice with him you better have your stick on the ice because if he see's the slightest opening he will find you. Could have easily had another assist on the last PP with a beautiful cross ice pass but the reciever was the wrong hand (Kind of like Laine on the right side...) and couldnt get it on net quick enough. He also holds onto the puck on the PP but constantly moves waiting to be engaged and thats when he makes the pass, was fun to watch.
 
  • Like
Reactions: tunnelvision

stevo61

Registered User
Jul 5, 2011
11,861
13,477
Canada
Mateychuk witha beauty shootout winner. Apparently MJ took a penalty with 1:55 left in OT and Mateychuk was 1 of the 3 on the ice for the whole PK and didnt give up too much for chances.
 

MoeBartoli

Checkers-to-Jackets
Sponsor
Jan 12, 2011
14,492
10,917
I don’t watch junior hockey so I enjoy reading the comments of those of you who are paying attention. I don't comment or add “likes” simply because I don’t have that direct knowing, however this is one of my favorite threads for gaining insight through your eyes. So many thanks to those of you sharing.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad