Prospect Info: CBJ Prospect Thread VI

[Viqsi]

Nutivaara is a champion. Elite.

No matter how much the untapped potential there might pure age doesn't always work in your favour. What was said of Marko Dano is that some of those guys of his draft class hadn't even played in the men's leagues while he competed at the KHL and World Championship tournament. Dano, albeit 'younger' and raw was nowhere near where Nutivaara leaves Europe. To reach Nutivaara's so far career height point is quite the trick.

Not a single of that list in my estimation has reached Nutivaara's level so far, including Korpisalo and the others with NHL games. And it ain't like Nuti is done. He has only began with the chapter that will tell his NHL tale.

I think it is unwise to turn age against a man who has shown that it ain't the age, it is the play what you draft. You play the game to the last card.

He's done that for one year. And in the SM-liiga. One-hit wonders are common enough at the NHL level; having it in an European league is doubly worrisome.

Nobody here is saying he's doomed or that he has no chance; only that the fact that he has won at that level (which you so frequently cite) is the only reason why he'd be worthy of consideration at all. Make no mistake - he's definitely worthy of strong consideration, and it wouldn't be totally strange if he had some time at the NHL level next season. And if we and he are both quite fortunate, he may go further beyond that. But to insist at this early stage that he's unquestionably going to be one of our top blueliners is more than a little extreme.

 

[Tulipunaruusu*]

Nutivaara was a top-⁴ defenceman for Kärpät before his statistical breakthrough this season. Especially when it mattered the most.

Kärpät ain't just some summer börje organization but the Chicago Blackhawks of Eurasia who have been under world class coaching structure all the time Nuti has spent there. That knowledge goes far beyond what is found in the Americas, with Nutivaara and Marjamäki, future World Cup champions bringing ice hockey to the Americas this Fall. Bringing habit to the ****ing streets.

Aho and Donskoi are examples of the Kärppä elite. Even they need a Leader.

 

[Viqsi]

Nutivaara was a top-⁴ defenceman for Kärpät before his statistical breakthrough this season. Especially when it mattered the most.

Kärpät ain't just some summer börje organization but the Chicago Blackhawks of Eurasia who have been under world class coaching structure all the time Nuti has spent there. That knowledge goes far beyond what is found in the Americas, with Nutivaara and Marjamäki, future World Cup champions bringing ice hockey to the Americas this Fall. Bringing habit to the ****ing streets.

Aho and Donskoi are examples of the Kärppä elite. Even they need a Leader.

Aho is good but he's still a prospect; we'll see how he turns out. Donskoi is very good but he's ultimately a secondary scorer on an already strong Sharks team - 36 points in 76 games.

Again - he's worthy of strong consideration. But you're going too far too fast.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

You would think nutivaara was a 1st round pick, not a 7th. My goodness

 

[Viqsi]

You would think nutivaara was a 1st round pick, not a 7th. My goodness

To be fair, the idea was that we were making sure we got his rights, as otherwise he'd have been a UFA target. So it's probably fairer to compare him to European league UFAs. Some have been really awesome. Most others have been... less so.

 

[Johansen2Foligno]

I can't believe it's not Nuutivara

 

[Tulipunaruusu*]

To be fair, the idea was that we were making sure we got his rights, as otherwise he'd have been a UFA target.

Nuti was a Sm-liiga rookie in his draft year. A late bloomer. I don't know how that affects so much when he is of same age with Korpisalo and Zaar, year younger than Kukan, Hännikäinen and Karlsson. Yet Nuti is far more accomplished player in the global comparison going into his first NHL summer.

Donskoi put the pieces back together a little later and turned out with a fine rookie season. Nutivaara's projection and status in the game deserve a high place, as did his play already in his draft season testify. If someone wants to see it through lists rather than the play that is their loss but the Blue Jackets have acquired Kärpät elite, player far more accomplished.

 

[DarkandStormy]

Nutivaara won't play a single game next season with the CBJ next season. There, I said it.

 

[Viqsi]

Nutivaara won't play a single game next season with the CBJ next season. There, I said it.

...and now we're headed in the direction of the opposite extreme. Hooray for irrational backlash!

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Hooray for irrational backlash!

They were great when I saw them open for Alice in Chains back in the day.

 

[Tulipunaruusu*]

Nutivaara's first full professional season was his draft year. If that fact doesn't tell of talent... nothing does...

There seems to be some confusion with how the European ice hockey hierarchy works. Nutivaara timelined Stoats are at the top of that food chain. Joining an AHL team won't be a challenge.

 

[DarkandStormy]

...and now we're headed in the direction of the opposite extreme. Hooray for irrational backlash!

Fav this tweet

 

[Jackets16]

Nutivaara's first full professional season was his draft year. If that fact doesn't tell of talent... nothing does...

There seems to be some confusion with how the European ice hockey hierarchy works. Nutivaara timelined Stoats are at the top of that food chain. Joining an AHL team won't be a challenge.

I get liking a guy, but you need to take a step back from this. He may be good, he may end up being good for us, he isn't even close to our top prospect.

 

[mikeyp24]

Werenski
Bjorkstrand
Milano
Rychel
Kukan
Gavrikov
Anderson
Carlsson
Kolesar
Heatherington
Merzlikins
Nutivaara
Bittner
Paliotta
Forsberg
Zaar
Vainio
Stenlund
Hannikainen
Maletta



Based on the earlier list of 20 this is how I would have it. Based on the scouting and the videos and games ive seen from Garikov I honestly believe he is going to be our future #4 shut down guy. I think I am the only one on here that might think that haha but I am extremely high on him. Im not going to be crazy like our friend in here talking about Nutivaara and try saying hes our #1 all time best prospect and hes the going to be the defensive Gretzky but I feel strongly in his abilities.

 

[Monk]

Werenski
Bjorkstrand
Milano
Rychel
Kukan
Gavrikov
Anderson
Carlsson
Kolesar
Heatherington
Merzlikins
Nutivaara
Bittner
Paliotta
Forsberg
Zaar
Vainio
Stenlund
Hannikainen
Maletta

I like this list the best so far.

 

[mikeyp24]

Thanks, I appreciate it Monk!!

After this years draft where does everyone think we will be ranked prospect wise? The way our team has drafted since GMJK has been here I have nothing but confidence we will have a great draft. Getting JP along with the high 2nd which I hope turns out to be Bitten or Fox I think puts us in the top 10 conversation minimum.

 

[WannabeFinn]

We're already top 10, we'd be top 5 with the addition of Pulju.

 

[mikeyp24]

I feel we are top 10 but Im always afraid its just team colored glasses you know? I dont like pumping our own tires haha. We do need to draft a good number of F this year for me to feel comfortable though. I feel Milano/Bjorlstrand/Pulju/Anderson could all play next year and hopefully we move Rychel for a pick. At that point we only have Bittner and Kolesar in the system so I really want the 2nd round pick to be a F and hopefully like I said we move up with Rychel and draft one more top level F prospect.

 

[WannabeFinn]

1. Werenski - Can anyone even argue against this?
2. Bjorkstrand - Solid first AHL season with a nice showing in the NHL. Think he can play NHL full time next season.
3. Korpisalo - Amazing first year in North America. Future starting goalie in the NHL.
4. Rychel - He had a poor finish to the season after having a really hot start. His NHL experience and readiness puts him here.
5. Milano - More skill than Rychel, but a raw talent with considerably less professional experience. Tough to project what kind of NHL numbers he'll produce, but my gut says Oshie-like.

after the top 5 is where it gets much murkier..

6. Anderson - NHL ready, having a fantastic postseason. Could see him scoring 30 points right away in the NHL.
7. Kukan - Couple solid years in Sweden followed up by a nice North American debut. #4/5 D who can move the puck effectively.
8. Gavrikov - Good full season in the KHL, played a critical role on his team. Bottom pairing defensive defenseman. I think he's got a low ceiling but a high floor.
9. Heatherington - Good first professional season, showed a little bit of offensive flair despite being pegged as a defensive defenseman. His size is a big bonus. #4/5 defenseman.
10. Nutivaara - A real gem by Jarmo. Thinks the game well and makes smart decisions with the puck. Isn't a hulking defenseman and has yet to prove anything on NA ice but you've gotta love players who think the game like he does.
11. Zaar - Good rookie season in SHL, crosses the pond and leads the Monsters in goals. I view him as a lesser Bjorkstrand.
12. Carlsson - I like his potential a lot but he's still raw and lacking strength. This offseason will be a big one for him.
13. Bittner - Injury plagued him this year and it makes him tough to gauge. His size and skill set still makes him very desirable. I think he's the Zaar to Anderson's Bjorkstrand, for now.
14. Paliotta - Nice size, decent AHL season but his alone NHL game was a disaster. At age 23 he's becoming more of a finished product. With such talented D above him, I can't imagine Paliotta becoming more than a depth defenseman with Columbus.
15. Forsberg - He might not put up Korpisalo's numbers but he gets the job done when called upon.
16. Kolesar - Much improved season, but keep in mind he was benefitting from having Barzal as his center and Bear on the point. I like the way he plays the game but I want to see what he can do next season.
17. Vainio - Not a great rookie season but his team did have some off-ice troubles. Eager to see what he can do with a more stable team. Great offensive skills.
18. Merzlikins - 3 good seasons in the NLA with a great playoffs and good showing at World Championships. I'd like to see him cross the pond soon.
19. Stenlund - Good size and hockey smarts, but an underwhelming rookie season in SHL. Hopefully he can breakout next season.
20. Scott - Did he benefit from his linemates? Clearly. But it's really tough to discount 17 goals in 15 playoff games.

 

[Tulipunaruusu*]

When Midtjylland scouted the giant Tim Sparv they found him from German 2. Bundesliga with his club willing to let go of him despite of the heavy minutes carried. Greuther Furth next season crashed from their previous third place to 14th.

Midtjylland scouts 'moneyball' by ranking all teams in fictional World league standings and acquiring impact players of those teams who rank high on the world-wide list. Similar to for example Leicester City who's signing of N'Golo Kante from French side Caen follows similar principle of identified impact team with impact players.

Then we have Kärpät of Marjamäki. Also we have The Blue Jackets. Another is world class coaching set-up similar to TPS of Jursinov or HIFK coached by Westerlund-Summanen pair of the 90's. Few of the involved in those development cycles:

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Norrena, Nummelin, S. Koivu, Lehtinen, Pirjetä, Berg, Hyvönen, Salo, Timonen, Kiprusoff, Kallio...Five seasons.

Caloun, Jokinen, Timonen, Rafalski, Ruutu, Hagman, Thomas, Lydman, Siren, Bäckström...Two seasons.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Now you maybe get idea of where an European elite team stands in terms of competition even if those names are already in the past. But ain't there more than a few Blue Jackets in there...

Now return to this day. If Kärpät and Blue Jackets of couple recent seasons would have played summit series Kärpät would have conquered. That world-wide ice hockey league standings list goes something along these lines although it is missing few teams:

Kärpät
Blue Jackets

Still there is of course transition period. But Nuti doesn't rise from position of weakness as some of these promising names who haven't played professional ice hockey at the level Nuti does. That level ain't American hockey league.

 

[Jackets16]

When Midtjylland scouted the giant Tim Sparv they found him from German 2. Bundesliga with his club willing to let go of him despite of the heavy minutes carried. Greuther Furth next season crashed from their previous third place to 14th.

Midtjylland scouts 'moneyball' by ranking all teams in fictional World league standings and acquiring impact players of those teams who rank high on the world-wide list. Similar to for example Leicester City who's signing of N'Golo Kante from French side Caen follows similar principle of identified impact team with impact players.

Then we have Kärpät of Marjamäki. Also we have The Blue Jackets. Another is world class coaching set-up similar to TPS of Jursinov or HIFK coached by Westerlund-Summanen pair of the 90's. Few of the involved in those development cycles:

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Norrena, Nummelin, S. Koivu, Lehtinen, Pirjetä, Berg, Hyvönen, Salo, Timonen, Kiprusoff, Kallio...Five seasons.

Caloun, Jokinen, Timonen, Rafalski, Ruutu, Hagman, Thomas, Lydman, Siren, Bäckström...Two seasons.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Now you maybe get idea of where an European elite team stands in terms of competition even if those names are already in the past. But ain't there more than a few Blue Jackets in there...

Now return to this day. If Kärpät and Blue Jackets of couple recent seasons would have played summit series Kärpät would have conquered. That world-wide ice hockey league standings list goes something along these lines although it is missing few teams:

Kärpät
Blue Jackets

Still there is of course transition period. But Nuti doesn't rise from position of weakness as some of these promising names who haven't played professional ice hockey at the level Nuti does. That level ain't American hockey league.

Not saying they aren't good, but there is no way I'd take them to win a series over Columbus.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

I just can't put a guy who was 'good' in like 5-10 games in his NHL career with an OK year in the AHL in the top 10 of our prospects. I get it, Kukan was playing pretty well in a dark time for the team, but is he really going to be an NHLer? I have my doubts.

 

[WannabeFinn]

I just can't put a guy who was 'good' in like 5-10 games in his NHL career with an OK year in the AHL in the top 10 of our prospects. I get it, Kukan was playing pretty well in a dark time for the team, but is he really going to be an NHLer? I have my doubts.

What makes you doubt Kukan's ability more than any of our other defensive prospects with the exception of Werenski? He's got the size, he's got the professional experience, he's got the puck moving ability. There's no reason he can't be an NHL player.


Besides, who bumps him out of the top 10? Zaar? Eh, maybe. But he has no NHL experience. Bittner? Injured virtually all year, no professional track record. Carlsson? Probably higher potential than Kukan but he's like 3 years younger and much more raw.

 

[Tulipunaruusu*]

What makes you doubt Kukan's ability more than any of our other defensive prospects with the exception of Werenski? He's got the size, he's got the professional experience, he's got the puck moving ability. There's no reason he can't be an NHL player.

But-bu-b... he wasn't drafted. He is soon 23. Lifers we used to call 'em.

 

[spintheblackcircle]

The Sharks are making hay by signing Europeans that were either undrafted or were unsigned by the team that drafted them.

Last year, they signed undrafted Melker Karlsson. This year, they signed Florida draftee Joonas Donskoi. They have been HUGE parts of their run this year.

For next year, they already signed Ottawa draftee Marcus Sorensen who was rookie of the year last year and rumor has it that they are going to sign Ducks draftee Tim Heed. Both would be signed with the exception to play with the Sharks next year.

Just because Kukan wasn't drafted doesn't mean he's not an NHL'er. I think the way hockey is developing in Finland and Sweden, there are some gems out there who can help right away AND be a low cost player for a few years.