Player Discussion Casey Mittelstadt (2017, 8th) #37 - Part III

[K8fool]

you have to think about it terms of his total development curve. rookie year there were high expectations with housley as the new coach, but the roster was still awful and housley was soon revealed as not the right guy.

botteril then brings in kruger who fails spectacularly, especially in developing the young players…. casey gets sent down, people begin to say he’s a bust, etc etc.

the following year is covid. kind of a wash/sea change year for the entire organization. adams comes in, kruger is rightfully canned, granato is now the coach but no one thinks he’s actually the guy.

21-22 is donny’s first full year as coach. our young players begin to really take off. this is casey’s injury problem year.

and now this season, he’s actually getting a real chance. no disgruntled players on the roster, a coach that is actually good, and a whole bunch more talent around.

it’s not a mystery why he has been leaps and bounds better this year in comparison to his earlier years. his entire development was botched by the organization. i honestly think he is going to be a great player for us. it was a winding path, but after this season i think the ship has been righted

It finally slowing down for him . maybe for good . Getting those goals today being in the right place. Not in the wave wash hes been in since getting injured in the first game last year.. Maybe he can break Gallagher s wrist for fun every April.

 

[Dingo44]

 

[joshjull]

I'm thinking it comes down to how other players progress, and the cost to retain him. Krebs for example is a few years younger, but you can see he has similar vision, a willingness to battle for pucks, will forecheck and backcheck, and can play wing or center just like Casey. Casey probably has a better shot right now but Krebs could still improve there. He needs to get stronger to win more of those puck battles also.

Krebs is not a wing. His run there this season was a failed experiment. He needed to get back to center with two minders (KO/Girgs) to get his game back.


At the moment Krebs is a very good grind it out bottom 6 center who plays with a scrappy edge. He needs to keep cleaning up elements of his game as well as keep growing in the areas he has been. If he does that, he has a good chance to become the player you're describing above.

If you end up where you need to pay Casey 5 million per, or Krebs 2.5 million per on a bridge then Krebs obviously provides you more cap flexibility being a lower cost to retain. That's if Krebs continues to improve in the trajectory we've seen from him this season.


Right now however, Casey is an important piece of the team, and should be next season also. After that who knows until the season is played.

I know you’re responding to someone else but I don’t get this mentality.

If Mitts, by your own admission, is an important piece now and will be next season. Then he will be that after next season as well, regardless of what Krebs grows into. Why would they get rid of him?

Don’t say the cap. Teams do whatever they can to manipulate the cap before they resort to trading away key players. We also have a ways to go before we need to worry about being jammed up against the upper limit. Plus a versatile player like Mitts gives more bang for the buck in a cap world.**

**Mitts is a forward who can play in all situations and any of the 9 positions on the top 3 lines. We can certainly debate where he fits best. But thats an incredible amount of versatility. Even if Krebs manages to become a similar palyer. I don‘t see why they wouldn’t want to take advantage of two players like that instead of moving out one. Players with that versatility inherently have more value than more limited players.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

Krebs is not a wing. His run there this season was a failed experiment. He needed to get back to center with two minders (KO/Girgs) to get his game back.


At the moment Krebs is a very good grind it out bottom 6 center who plays with a scrappy edge. He needs to keep cleaning up elements of his game as well as keep growing in the areas he has been. If he does that, he has a good chance to become the player you're describing above.



I know you’re responding to someone else but I don’t get this mentality.

If Mitts, by your own admission, is an important piece now and will be next season. Then he will be that after next season as well, regardless of what Krebs grows into. Why would they get rid of him?

Don’t say the cap. Teams do whatever they can to manipulate the cap before they resort to trading away key players. We also have a ways to go before we need to worry about being jammed up against the upper limit. Plus a versatile player like Mitts gives more bang for the buck in a cap world.**

**Mitts is a forward who can play in all situations and any of the 9 positions on the top 3 lines. We can certainly debate where he fits best. But thats an incredible amount of versatility. Even if Krebs manages to become a similar palyer. I don‘t see why they wouldn’t want to take advantage of two players like that instead of moving out one. Players with that versatility inherently have more value than more limited players.

The best thing that Mitts or Krebs could turn in to is Yanni Gourde 2.0, but I think only Krebs can turn in to that type of player.

Mitts is more of a Charlie Coyle 2.0.

Both those comparisons can play anywhere in the top 9, and the comparison is based on temperament and play style than anything.

 

[Dingo44]

Mitts just needs to look at another American former first round draft pick who was thrown into the NHL, struggled, was sent down to Rochester, started to find his game, was regulated you the taxi squad by Ralph, was on the comeback path but was injured for almost a whole season, played some on the wing, then moved back to center which ended up growing his confidence and had him creating more points by the game. He's in the same locker room.

Could it happen again with Mitts? He may not have the size but I'd argue he has the hands.

 

[Irie]

What do we do with him? Do we extend him? Do we trade him while his value is high? I think he is a good winger on either the 2nd or 3rd line but players like Savoie and Kulich are waiting for their chance, similar to Quinn and JJP last year. This will be a very interesting off season for Casey.

There is a bit of buzz around Mitts due to some good league press, but I still do not think his value is "high".

High value would imply that his trade value is more than his contributing value. His value is definitely higher than it has been in years, but it is still below his on ice value, imo.

Moving him now would still be selling low on the player, especially if he gets a top six opportunity next season. Prorating his points out while playing with Cozens or Tuch this year has him hitting 70pts. No guarantees he will hit those numbers, but it would be a safe bet that he out produces his numbers from this year, further elevating his value.

So I think you definitely hold onto him, and take advantage of his production. If they still decide he isn't in the teams long term plans, play him up the lineup with better linemates and pad his stats and juice his value, then move him for a much better return.

 

[Dingo44]

 

[Dirty Dog]

I mean, the production comparison isn't too far off. I think the big issue is Couterier played a much bigger role as a two way shut down center during that time before his offense really took off. Couterier produced about the same as Mittelstadt has, even though Mittelstadt has been getting heavy offensive zone starts and Couterier got heavy D-zone starts.

I guess I'm looking for a center/forward who was supposed to be this highly skilled offensive player whose production was just terrible and suddenly became a regular contributor or even a top line player.

No I'm genuinely curious because I think Mittelstadt becoming a regular contributor is a long shot. Typically late bloomers will fill another role (Copp/Couterier come to mind) successfully and offense comes later. So they are still contributing even if they aren't racking up points, so they continue to get ice time while that part of their game develops.

I think Mittelstadt will be a pretty rare case if he does work out. An undersized skill guy who isn't producing won't continue to get a roster spot after so long. The only real comp that seems like a real parallel is Josh Bailey. So I guess we'll have to wait and see.

I guess it was unprecedented! Though not really, as everyone said before this season, Mitts’ significant jump was predictable.

Anyways, i think Mitts and Krebs are both really good playmakers and both play with an edge and are striving for a good two-way game. I’d split these two up in you bottom six lines. And both could have a long term home in that type of role

 

[Uberpecker]

How soon can they extend him? Maybe we can land another contract coup à la Thompson and Samuelsson.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

With Mitts everything depends on price imo

 

[Jim Bob]

How soon can they extend him? Maybe we can land another contract coup à la Thompson and Samuelsson.

They can start talking extension with him on the first day of the 2023-24 league year.

But, there are a lot of guys that are like Mitts in that they are entering the last year of their current deals.

Mitts (RFA w arb rights), Krebs (RFA no arb rights), Olofsson (UFA), Dahlin (RFA w arb rights), Lyubushkin (UFA), Jokiharju (RFA w arb rights), Bryson (RFA w arb rights), Stillman (RFA w arb rights), Power (10.2(c) RFA), UPL (RFA w arb rights), and Comrie (UFA) are all up after 2023-24.

 

[Chainshot]

They can start talking extension with him on the first day of the 2023-24 league year.

But, there are a lot of guys that are like Mitts in that they are entering the last year of their current deals.

Mitts (RFA w arb rights), Krebs (RFA no arb rights), Olofsson (UFA), Dahlin (RFA w arb rights), Lyubushkin (UFA), Jokiharju (RFA w arb rights), Bryson (RFA w arb rights), Stillman (RFA w arb rights), Power (10.2(c) RFA), UPL (RFA w arb rights), and Comrie (UFA) are all up after 2023-24.

And the GM has said publicly his top priorities are the extensions on Dahlin and Power. It wouldn't be until after that when any of the other pieces, if any, get his focus.

 

[valet]

And the GM has said publicly his top priorities are the extensions on Dahlin and Power. It wouldn't be until after that when any of the other pieces, if any, get his focus.

i’m willing to bet that the cap numbers for both dahlin and op will be less than market too, so there’s a good chance we can keep all of these guys for at least the next 4-5 years (aka multiple cup runs)

 

[start winnin]

His game has grown so much since the start of the season, it's been pretty tremendous to watch a player grow that much. He's more aggressive and assertive and it has allowed his game to flourish, give him some real linemates like Kulich or Savioe next year instead of Olofsson and he'll pop off. What will he cost to extend? 5-6m?

 

[Dingo44]

 

[nickdawg95]

GIVE THIS MAN THE BAG

 

[Gabrielor]

The man is clutch.

Mayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyybe I'll hear them out of Mitts contract extension talks.

Maybe.

 

[Grinder44]

Boy, I hope the fact that he's stepped up in crunch-time, excelled as the injury-replacement first line center, and has been clutch for weeks with the team's season on the line, will give fans who had given up on him a new perspective on his abilities and value. He's climbed out of the wreckage of his botched development, and the disaster of Ralph, and is finally playing outstanding hockey. No player is perfect, but once the pros begin to outweigh the cons, you should give a kid a chance.

 

[Chainshot]

 

[Genny Screamer]

Mitts went from a bust to busting out!

 

[Dirty Dog]

Can @TehDoak make a big stink about someone else not breaking out for next year? Seemed to work magic for Thompson and then Mitts!

Maybe a few dozen posts about Krebs will do?

 

[EichHart]

Absolutely unreal shootout goal. That move at that speed is ridiculously hard to pull off.

 

[BloFan4Life]

You could pull the threads from every March and April and see the same stuff about Mittelstadt.

The guy starts the seasons so slow. I have my own narratives why, but I'm not extending a guy based upon him playing two months of a season.

We kept all our first round picks all these years to move off and not pay Mittelstadt. I'm trading him for a defenseman like Samuelsson. A 4-5 million dollar D man like Samuelsson, is more valuable than a 4-5 Mittelstadt when you have guy like Ostlund coming up.

 

[Dirty Dog]

You could pull the threads from every March and April and see the same stuff about Mittelstadt.

No you can’t

The guy starts the seasons so slow. I have my own narratives why, but I'm not extending a guy based upon him playing two months of a season.

He played at mostly the same pace all season, and has just increased it very recently.

He had 7 points in 9 games October.

We kept all our first round picks all these years to move off and not pay Mittelstadt. I'm trading him for a defenseman like Samuelsson. A 4-5 million dollar D man like Samuelsson, is more valuable than a 4-5 Mittelstadt when you have guy like Ostlund coming up.

Well, yea. If you can trade Mitts for a player like samuelsson you obviously do it but that’s not an option.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

I'm not trading Mittelstadt even for a RHD Samuelsson clone. Why? Because KA has other assets to make that happen. There really aren't many players like Mittelstadt is becoming around the league - a truly hard working FW in all zones that is now producing in the 50-60 pt range. That's a real accomplishment considering the rag-tag shape of his line during the season. If Greenway reforms himself and Savoie can come into camp and earn a spot, that line is going to be at least as good as the kid line was this season.