Value of: Carter Hart to Habs

[Mersss]

those guys might get you a few hockey sticks not a top 6 center in hes prime

Kidney would 100% be in play for Dubois

That top6 C in his prime will sign here at the summer of 2024.

Why are we trading ine of our top prospects for him exactly?? Why try and speed up the rebuild?? Just wait. Draft 2 studs this year, and another one next year, and then we sign him.

 

[alasania94]

We have plenty of #5/6 tweener D-man in our pipeline. It's not a valuable commodity. If Zamula and Attard were in the habs system they both would have had more ice time and points than Harris this year for MTL.

How are you calling Harris a bottom 5-6 tweener when he is pacing for 25 points playing 5th D mins at 22 years old? He is a fantastic prospect, and one you've clearly never seen play based off your assumption above.

 

[QCNords]

We have plenty of #5/6 tweener D-man in our pipeline. It's not a valuable commodity. If Zamula and Attard were in the habs system they both would have had more ice time and points than Harris this year for MTL.

Time will tell i guess. I just dont think Harris is mediocre, is pretty good for is age, promising.

 

[Nico Cauzuki]

That top6 C in his prime will sign here at the summer of 2024.

Why are we trading ine of our top prospects for him exactly?? Why try and speed up the rebuild?? Just wait. Draft 2 studs this year, and another one next year, and then we sign him.

you do not know that for sure we know Dubois would like to play here but he never once said it was ONLY Montreal summer 2024 teams like Boston or Colorado can approach him with offers and a much better team

Remember when we didnt wanna trade our "future superstar" Ryan Poehling for ROR ? yea ill trade Kidney for Dubois anyday of the week and im sure management would also

 

[TS Quint]

Habs ain't trading Kidney for PLD.

2024 top15 cond 1st (slides to 2026 if top15)
Mysak
D prospect not named Mailloux Barron Hutson Engstrom
+ Cap

Is the highest you go

And here I came to laugh at Flyers fans for putting up with nickles and dimes for Hart. But it’s just another thread about nickels and dimes for Dubois.

 

[abo9]

Kidney was the best player in the Q this year. Don't tell me Dumais was. Kidney was a force offensively and defensively.

I have no issue with dealing prospects, but none of our top10 should he traded in a deal where we can just wait til summer 2024 to sign the guy.

Farrell, Dobes, Mailloux, Kidney, Beck, Hutson. Roy, Mesar, Engstrom

Should not be included in any deal. Mysak. struble, kapanen, go for it...

That's cute and all, but at the end of the day, those guys that you're okay to deal, you're okay to deal because they're not that good right now - and other NHL teams would know that and wouldn't want them either. They don't have good trade value.

And you're making a huge assumption in that Dubois will sign here and ignoring 31 NHL teams ready to sign him. A big, second line center who's gonna be only 26? Yeah, he'll have multiple offers and calls around the league.

Just to put it into perspective, Bergevin was once adamant about not trading Ryan Poehling for Ryan O'Reilly. Is Kidney gonna be better than Poehling? I sure hope so, but you're saying no to an actual, established, top 6 NHL center.

From Poehling to Price: why Marc Bergevin's plan must straddle the line between the present and the future

Montreal Canadiens: Saying no to Ryan O’Reilly was the right call by Bergevin

Montreal Canadiens general manager Marc Bergevin refused to include Ryan Poehling in a deal for Ryan O'Reilly which still remains to be a good decision.

awinninghabit.com

 

[Mersss]

you do not know that for sure we know Dubois would like to play here but he never once said it was ONLY Montreal summer 2024 teams like Boston or Colorado can approach him with offers and a much better team

Remember when we didnt wanna trade our "future superstar" Ryan Poehling for ROR ? yea ill trade Kidney for Dubois anyday of the week and im sure management would also

Those team need to have the cap space to do so. COL can't afford another 8M forward. Same goes for BOS.

Fact is, Gabs can just sut tight and still manage very well without Dubois, why trade Kidney for him??

Conditionnal 1st in 2024 (top20 protected)
B prospect (Mysak, Struble, not one of our top10 prospects)
Dvorak / roster player

Is much more than enough for a rental. Cause the other 31 team will see him as a rental.

 

[Mersss]

And here I came to laugh at Flyers fans for putting up with nickles and dimes for Hart. But it’s just another thread about nickels and dimes for Dubois.

We don't need to pay more than nickel and dimes for him.
We either acquire him for nickel and dimes now, gor whatever piece WE want to trade, or for free in 2024 as a UFA
And in the wild event where he's not coming home, it doesn't change anything for us. We'll be drafting top 5-10 for another 2-3 years easilly. Would it be nice to have PLD? Sure. But we don't need him we already have 2 top 6 C in Suzuki and Dach, and that's not counting our top 4 pick this year.
If other teams are willing to pay more than that for a rental. Be my guess.

 

[FlyguyOX]

How are you calling Harris a bottom 5-6 tweener when he is pacing for 25 points playing 5th D mins at 22 years old? He is a fantastic prospect, and one you've clearly never seen play based off your assumption above.

I'm very familiar back to his Northeastern days where was doing great in the postseason, beanpot, etc especially age-adjusted. It still doesn't mean he's shown the potential to be a top 4 player on a good team.

Cayden Primeau was fantastic in college age-adjusted as well.

 

[TS Quint]

We don't need to pay more than nickel and dimes for him.
We either acquire him for nickel and dimes now, gor whatever piece WE want to trade, or for free in 2024 as a UFA
And in the wild event where he's not coming home, it doesn't change anything for us. We'll be drafting top 5-10 for another 2-3 years easilly. Would it be nice to have PLD? Sure. But we don't need him we already have 2 top 6 C in Suzuki and Dach, and that's not counting our top 4 pick this year.
If other teams are willing to pay more than that for a rental. Be my guess.

Blaa bla bla. Same crap in yet another thread. Stay on topic.

 

[alasania94]

I'm very familiar back to his Northeastern days where was doing great in the postseason, beanpot, etc especially age-adjusted. It still doesn't mean he's shown the potential to be a top 4 player on a good team.

Cayden Primeau was fantastic in college age-adjusted as well.

Except Harris has been fantastic THIS year, in the NHL, on a tire fire of a team. He's putting up a 25 point pace playing 3rd line minutes with next to no PP time...oh with Johnathan Kovacevic as his partner, aka a nobody.

He is also very solid defensively. He easily projects as a top 4 defensemen with 2 more seasons under his belt.

You've provided nothing more to back up your statement other than your "opinion"

 

[HabzSauce]

That top6 C in his prime will sign here at the summer of 2024.

Why are we trading ine of our top prospects for him exactly?? Why try and speed up the rebuild?? Just wait. Draft 2 studs this year, and another one next year, and then we sign him.

If we wait he may come at a more expensive price. And if he's more expensive we may not even get him at all.

There are advantages for getting PLD this summer as apposed to waiting for UFA in 2024.

 

[FlyguyOX]

Except Harris has been fantastic THIS year, in the NHL, on a tire fire of a team. He's putting up a 25 point pace playing 3rd line minutes with next to no PP time...oh with Johnathan Kovacevic as his partner, aka a nobody.

He is also very solid defensively. He easily projects as a top 4 defensemen with 2 more seasons under his belt.

You've provided nothing more to back up your statement other than your "opinion"

I'm more optimistic of Kovacevic than Harris being a bonafide top 4 player tbh.

 

[Mersss]

If we wait he may come at a more expensive price. And if he's more expensive we may not even get him at all.

There are advantages for getting PLD this summer as apposed to waiting for UFA in 2024.

What are they? Give him 8x8 instead of 7x9?

Is that worth losing a top prospect and a top pick?

If PLD wants to be here, he'll make it happen, otherwise No reason whatsoever to trade one of our 5 best prospect for him.

We could also just acquire his negotiation rights at the draft in 2024 for a 3rd rd pick and have 1 week to negotiate an 8year deal with him. All while keeping out top prospects and all of our top picks.

 

[HabzSauce]

What are they? Give him 8x8 instead of 7x9?

Is that worth losing a top prospect and a top pick?

If PLD wants to be here, he'll make it happen, otherwise No reason whatsoever to trade one of our 5 best prospect for him.

We could also just acquire his negotiation rights at the draft in 2024 for a 3rd rd pick and have 1 week to negotiate an 8year deal with him. All while keeping out top prospects and all of our top picks.

Yes I'd much rather 8x8 than 7x9. And if we get him this summer that is also a guarantee we have him.

If we decide to wait, nothing is guaranteed. Our offer might be 7x9 but maybe somebody else offers him slightly better and he dips there instead.

Not a risk I'm willing to take. PLD is a solid player. I'd rather trade assets and lock him up for a cheaper term than roll the dice and hope he still wants to sign for a more expensive contract.

This also depends on the assets going back to WPG. I don't think we will have to break the bank here with top prospects + top picks.

PLD is not going to cost that much given WPGs situation. for example I've seen a proposal based around Harris, 2nd, Beck. Something like that I would pull the trigger on.

 

[Mersss]

Yes I'd much rather 8x8 than 7x9. And if we get him this summer that is also a guarantee we have him.

If we decide to wait, nothing is guaranteed. Our offer might be 7x9 but maybe somebody else offers him slightly better and he dips there instead.

Not a risk I'm willing to take. PLD is a solid player. I'd rather trade assets and lock him up for a cheaper term than roll the dice and hope he still wants to sign for a more expensive contract.

This also depends on the assets going back to WPG. I don't think we will have to break the bank here with top prospects + top picks.

PLD is not going to cost that much given WPGs situation. for example I've seen a proposal based around Harris, 2nd, Beck. Something like that I would pull the trigger on.

Beck is off the table as he is a top10 prospect in our system.

Again we can get his rights at the 2024 draft for a 3rd and sign him to an 8x8 extension..no need to send out prime assets for him.

Cond top15 2024 1st
B prospect not in the top10 of our Org (Beck-Mailloux-Roy-Kidney-Engstrom-Dobes-Beck-Hutson-Mesar-Farrell).
Younf Roster player (Harris, Ylonen, Evans,...)
Cap (Hoffman someone like that)
Is the most Habs should give. No need to try hard to get him at the 2023 draft cause it makes our 2024 pick even weaker, and out of the bluechips prospects of 2024

 

[thedjpd]

Yes I'd much rather 8x8 than 7x9. And if we get him this summer that is also a guarantee we have him.

If we decide to wait, nothing is guaranteed. Our offer might be 7x9 but maybe somebody else offers him slightly better and he dips there instead.

Not a risk I'm willing to take. PLD is a solid player. I'd rather trade assets and lock him up for a cheaper term than roll the dice and hope he still wants to sign for a more expensive contract.

This also depends on the assets going back to WPG. I don't think we will have to break the bank here with top prospects + top picks.

PLD is not going to cost that much given WPGs situation. for example I've seen a proposal based around Harris, 2nd, Beck. Something like that I would pull the trigger on.

Finally, a reasonable take.

HFBoards always wants to maximize value on "hope" or what a player could be, assuming that the majority reach their lofty expectations - but most fizzle out. However, here, we don't have to take accountability for "waiting" - because we are fans indefinitely. Championship teams don't try and maximize "value" for every asset - they maximize their chance of "winning" - knowing, better than all of us, that it's still a chance.

Managers and coaches change every few years - due to accountability. We don't have any - as fans - and can wait as long as we want, regardless of outcomes, because we're still fans.

Agree with this poster, and really challenge some of the others on here as to their assessment on value.

PLD is a 26 year old tweener 1C/2C of which 1% of prospects will reach that equivalency - and claiming the "top 10" of prospects in your system are out of bounds for such a player is being out of touch with reality.

Same logic to Carter Hart. A #1 goalie who's 24 and under team control (better case than PLD) - but only offering expendable pieces as if you're doing the Flyers a favor. These trades are made due to an assessment on timing, not value.

If the Habs' position is that a #1 goalie is not needed at the moment, and there's no interest - that's a perfectly valid position to take. But don't degenerate his value in an attempt to "nickel and dime." He is most certainly, a very valuable piece and the price will be something you feel if pursued.

 

[HabzSauce]

Beck is off the table as he is a top10 prospect in our system.

Again we can get his rights at the 2024 draft for a 3rd and sign him to an 8x8 extension..no need to send out prime assets for him.

Cond top15 2024 1st
B prospect not in the top10 of our Org (Beck-Mailloux-Roy-Kidney-Engstrom-Dobes-Beck-Hutson-Mesar-Farrell).
Younf Roster player (Harris, Ylonen, Evans,...)
Cap (Hoffman someone like that)
Is the most Habs should give. No need to try hard to get him at the 2023 draft cause it makes our 2024 pick even weaker, and out of the bluechips prospects of 2024

Trading for his rights would be nice but he would still come at a more expensive price in 2024 compared to this summer in 2023. And what if he has a new career high next year? Even if we trade for his rights he may still want to test the UFA waters to see what other teams are offering. Still too risky for me

I wouldnt say Beck is hands off the table no. You have to give a little to get. Can't expect them to accept a Hoffman/harris/b prospect although it is possible! Really tough to gage how much PLD will cost.

I like Beck alot and id prefer to keep him, but I also don't mind trading him if that's what it took to get PLD. Beck is one of our top prospects but he's not Connor Bedard. And having PLD/Dach/Suzuki that can all play quality C minutes would make a guy like Beck more expandable than say a RD in Mailloux where we are depleted.

We also aren't going to be bottom feeders next year in my honest opinion. I see a very good chance we improve and move into DET/OTT territory so need to worry about ruining our draft position. The rock bottom tank is over after this year. Now focus on improving.

Forgot to mention but another bonus of adding PLD this year is that it's good for development for our younger players. I want Farrell/Slaf/Heineman/Caufield/dach/etc to play with good linemates next season. Forcing them to continue developing with guys like Dvorak and Hoffman for yet another year sounds brutal.

 

[Weltschmerz]

Beck is off the table as he is a top10 prospect in our system.

Again we can get his rights at the 2024 draft for a 3rd and sign him to an 8x8 extension..no need to send out prime assets for him.

Cond top15 2024 1st
B prospect not in the top10 of our Org (Beck-Mailloux-Roy-Kidney-Engstrom-Dobes-Beck-Hutson-Mesar-Farrell).
Younf Roster player (Harris, Ylonen, Evans,...)
Cap (Hoffman someone like that)
Is the most Habs should give. No need to try hard to get him at the 2023 draft cause it makes our 2024 pick even weaker, and out of the bluechips prospects of 2024

For 8 years have to get him before the deadline.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

Again we can get his rights at the 2024 draft for a 3rd and sign him to an 8x8 extension..no need to send out prime assets for him.

Jesus Christ here we go again lol

 

[ole ole]

I never said he was a 1C, I said the Habs would have their 1C, there's a difference.

Who's the #1 C you said the Habs gain?

 

[Hunter368]

Who's the #1 C you said they gain?

Never stated they gain a 1C

 

[ole ole]

Finally, a reasonable take.

HFBoards always wants to maximize value on "hope" or what a player could be, assuming that the majority reach their lofty expectations - but most fizzle out. However, here, we don't have to take accountability for "waiting" - because we are fans indefinitely. Championship teams don't try and maximize "value" for every asset - they maximize their chance of "winning" - knowing, better than all of us, that it's still a chance.

Managers and coaches change every few years - due to accountability. We don't have any - as fans - and can wait as long as we want, regardless of outcomes, because we're still fans.

Agree with this poster, and really challenge some of the others on here as to their assessment on value.

PLD is a 26 year old tweener 1C/2C of which 1% of prospects will reach that equivalency - and claiming the "top 10" of prospects in your system are out of bounds for such a player is being out of touch with reality.

Same logic to Carter Hart. A #1 goalie who's 24 and under team control (better case than PLD) - but only offering expendable pieces as if you're doing the Flyers a favor. These trades are made due to an assessment on timing, not value.

If the Habs' position is that a #1 goalie is not needed at the moment, and there's no interest - that's a perfectly valid position to take. But don't degenerate his value in an attempt to "nickel and dime." He is most certainly, a very valuable piece and the price will be something you feel if pursued.

You just posted ,
Finally, a reasonable take...... on a post where Harris, 2nd, Beck is offered for Dubois. DEAL.

 

[ole ole]

Never stated they gain a 1C

Post 361

Your quote

[ There you go, Habs GAIN their 1G and 1C for a few depth prospects, good deal. Power of positive thinking! ]


Ya you never stated such a thing.
Maybe should get rid of the proof before denying what you stated.

 

[captainpaxil]

Mtl second is a decent sweetener but I'd prefer a 24 first and that's on top of a premium asset. Hart is just entering his prime and the flyers particularly with a rebuild underway should only move him if it makes that seriously closer