Value of: Carter Hart to Habs

[Mersss]

Best D prospect in the NHL?

I’d taken any of Edvinsson, Hughes, Nemec, Jiricek and others before that munchkin.

Funny, pretty sure we Just witnessed the munchkin overproducing Hughes while being younger and vs harder comp!

And on a worse team!

 

[JRichard]

Anyone who's seen Foerster absolutely knows he's a lock top 6 winger. Complete player with a lethal shot

Too early for top 6 locked spot. RW is full: Konecny, Atkinson, Tippett already top 6 Players. Allison perfect rw4.
Brink Hobey Baker top 3 in 22 will come knocking for scoring line too.

 

[Thechozen1]

Funny, pretty sure we Just witnessed the munchkin overproducing Hughes while being younger and vs harder comp!

And on a worse team!

WOW! He out produced him by 1 point.

If I had a dollar for each time some player out produced another at one level only to disappoint at the next.

 

[10YearsAfter]

Too early for top 6 locked spot. RW is full: Konecny, Atkinson, Tippett already top 6 Players. Allison perfect rw4.
Brink Hobey Baker top 3 in 22 will come knocking for scoring line too.

If you've seen his 7 game stint and still think this, WOW. TK can play LW, Brink is a long way off, Allison is a bottom 6 and Arkinson is probably done. Foerster is a natural

 

[Michoulicious]

Would you trade Montambeault and roll with Allen-Primeau for a 2nd and a 3rd?

And Montambeault is 2yrs older…

I would certainly trade Montembault for a 2nd and 3rd, especially if it's an early 2nd and an early 3rd.

 

[JRichard]

I would certainly trade Montembault for a 2nd and 3rd, especially if it's an early 2nd and an early 3rd.

Ok then we simply agree to disagree. You dont trade your starting goalie for those picks…

2011-2018 draftees. Top 5 players out of 2nd round who played most NHL games. 40 guys.
you would think more players would come out of the 31st-35th group (early). Well…
31-35: 7 players
36-40: 7 players
41-45: 4 players
46-50: 7
51-55: 7
56-61: 8

so 18 came out of 1st half of drafts, 22 out of later half…

doesnt matter if its an early or late 2nd rounder.

checked 2010: again picks 37, 47, 51, 59 and 38 are top 5 in games played. 2 early, 3 late.

From 11-18 you should remember Collberg picked 33th, De la Rose 34, Fucale 36… and thats the 2nd round

In the 3rd you had the privilege of getting early 3rds Bozon 64, Hillis 66, Walford 68, Bitten 70, Crisp 71, Lernout 73.

you hit on Romanov 38, Lehkonen 55 and Harris 71

 

[Michoulicious]

Ok then we simply agree to disagree. You dont trade your starting goalie for those picks…

2011-2018 draftees. Top 5 players out of 2nd round who played most NHL games. 40 guys.
you would think more players would come out of the 31st-35th group (early). Well…
31-35: 7 players
36-40: 7 players
41-45: 4 players
46-50: 7
51-55: 7
56-61: 8

so 18 came out of 1st half of drafts, 22 out of later half…

doesnt matter if its an early or late 2nd rounder.

checked 2010: again picks 37, 47, 51, 59 and 38 are top 5 in games played. 2 early, 3 late.

From 11-18 you should remember Collberg picked 33th, De la Rose 34, Fucale 36… and thats the 2nd round

In the 3rd you had the privilege of getting early 3rds Bozon 64, Hillis 66, Walford 68, Bitten 70, Crisp 71, Lernout 73.

you hit on Romanov 38, Lehkonen 55 and Harris 71

You can always find Montembault types of goalies on the free agent market or for cheap trades.

Even a real starter like Kuemper was traded for a late 1st + prospect, and everybody agree that Arizona got a lot because Sakic was surprised Grubauer signed with Seattle and didn't have a plan B.

Andersen was traded for a late 1st + 2nd after stellar seasons in Anaheim.

Goalies just don't get big returns.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

I don't see a scenario where the Flyers trade Carter Hart, after decades of looking for a bonafide starting goaltender. Especially given the lack of return goalies get in trade.

 

[JRichard]

You can always find Montembault types of goalies on the free agent market or for cheap trades.

Even a real starter like Kuemper was traded for a late 1st + prospect, and everybody agree that Arizona got a lot because Sakic was surprised Grubauer signed with Seattle and didn't have a plan B.

Andersen was traded for a late 1st + 2nd after stellar seasons in Anaheim.

Goalies just don't get big returns.

mostly agree except Timmins (Healthy scratch or 3rd pair when dressed) and 32nd not « a lot » and Kuemper was 31. Hart is 24.

Andersen was 27.

 

[Flyer lurker]

I don't see a scenario where the Flyers trade Carter Hart, after decades of looking for a bonafide starting goaltender. Especially given the lack of return goalies get in trade.

You would have to know Ersson is the guy for 23-24. Sandstrom is a low 2/high 3 goalie and NOT the guy. It would help if flyers knew Fedotov was coming over Russia. Who knows if that will happen? You would also be starting from scratch and starting over from the beginning. You can make that case that should be the plan. But easier said than done. Its easy to say Flyers should trade Hayes with retention. No kidding. You would think Provorov is available for the right price. But Hart and Konecky are a lot harder calls.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Flyers should just keep Hart and ride him out like most clubs do when they secure that 1G position

 

[JRichard]

I don't see a scenario where the Flyers trade Carter Hart, after decades of looking for a bonafide starting goaltender. Especially given the lack of return goalies get in trade.

Unlikely but here is one:

If Briere believes in Ersson.
If Fedotov comes as expected after his 1yr military service.

both guys are not youngsters: 23 and 26. Young Kolosov already 2yrs KHL early 21 pick.

could also sign a veteran backup.

now the return must be better than 2nd and 3rd. Makes no sense to consider that.

But if he gets 2 very good prospects, i could see it.

a D and a forward. Not even a 1st pick.

Not another team’s cant miss top dog but 2 guys he sees making an impact. LA has been mentioned as fitting partner.

there are holes to fill.

Trade Provorov too.

 

[FerrisRox]

Would you trade Montambeault and roll with Allen-Primeau for a 2nd and a 3rd?

And Montambeault is 2yrs older…

In a heartbeat.

If the Canadiens were offered a 2nd and a 3rd for Montembeault they would have to be fools to pass on that.

 

[pth2]

So a mid 1st and a journeyman backup for a 24 year old starter. You wouldn’t trade your 24 year old starter for that

If I had a better, younger starter coming along and I didn't have much faith in the 24 year old, yes I would. And if Philly hadn't lost faith in Hart, he wouldn't be on the market.

You don't get to ask for the value of a 24 y.o. Carey Price since if you really thought he'd turn into Price, he wouldn't be on the market.

 

[JRichard]

If I had a better, younger starter coming along and I didn't have much faith in the 24 year old, yes I would. And if Philly hadn't lost faith in Hart, he wouldn't be on the market.

You don't get to ask for the value of a 24 y.o. Carey Price since if you really thought he'd turn into Price, he wouldn't be on the market.

Lets not act like Briere is working the phones on week-end to get rid of Hart asap.
The lost faith statement is over the top.

Remember title of thread and OP’s team…

If he had no faith in him, he wouldnt ask, right?
If he had faith in Montambeault, he wouldnt ask, right?

Sometimes too many is too many. I already see 6 dmen, 4 very young. Not even including Joel and Kovacevic. No room for Struble, Hutson, Mailloux. Cant play 6 young guys. Thats 11 bodies. You need 7.

Matheson, Savard, Guhle, Xman i view as safe. Hutson too even if 2 yrs away.

4 names: Harris, Barron, Struble, Mailloux they could dangle one without losing any sleep imo if it helps getting Hart.

i could see Philly being interested.

I’m still not doing Hart for Struble straight up but it would be a nice start.

Forward is crowded too… 11 players back, not counting Monahan, Gurianov. Not including any of Heineman, RHP, Farrell, Ylonen. Thats 17. You need around 13. Imagine trying to play Kidney, Roy, Beck in 2 yrs.

Time for quality over quantity?

Harris, Ylonen and salary dump (Hoffman or Edmundson) for Hart.

 

[HuGo Sham]

Lets not act like Briere is working the phones on week-end to get rid of Hart asap.
The lost faith statement is over the top.

Remember title of thread and OP’s team…

If he had no faith in him, he wouldnt ask, right?
If he had faith in Montambeault, he wouldnt ask, right?

Sometimes too many is too many. I already see 6 dmen, 4 very young. Not even including Joel and Kovacevic. No room for Struble, Hutson, Mailloux. Cant play 6 young guys. Thats 11 bodies. You need 7.

Matheson, Savard, Guhle, Xman i view as safe. Hutson too even if 2 yrs away.

4 names: Harris, Barron, Struble, Mailloux they could dangle one without losing any sleep imo if it helps getting Hart.

i could see Philly being interested.

I’m still not doing Hart for Struble straight up but it would be a nice start.

Forward is crowded too… 11 players back, not counting Monahan, Gurianov. Not including any of Heineman, RHP, Farrell, Ylonen. Thats 17. You need around 13. Imagine trying to play Kidney, Roy, Beck in 2 yrs.

Time for quality over quantity?

Harris, Ylonen and salary dump (Hoffman or Edmundson) for Hart.

that's a reasonable ask, even if Habs are extremely high on Harris. I'd think Philly would also be interested in Primeau even though they have their young goalies.
It will be a challenge for Hughes to trade for both Hart and Dubois this offseason after carefully accumulating a lot of picks and quality prospects the last 18 months

 

[HuGo Sham]

I would certainly trade Montembault for a 2nd and 3rd, especially if it's an early 2nd and an early 3rd.

interesting question. Dikembe holds value because he's still young with a great cap hit.
If they don't acquire a goalie like Hart, I think they trade Allen and roll with a Dikembe / Primeau tandem next year. Assuming they don't trade for Dubois and draft Bedard

 

[SensontheRush]

A 3rd pairing D, a mid-6 prospect, and a salary dump for Hart?

How could you pass that up

 

[JRichard]

A 3rd pairing D, a mid-6 prospect, and a salary dump for Hart?

How could you pass that up

Tbh i expect more nos than yeahs on that ask.
Philly might end up with a 2nd pair dman and a 2nd line winger.
I put many names out there. Mix and match.

 

[Mackiaveli]

Yeah, the Habs are definitely ahead, but still going through those final rebuild year(s), especially with the likes of the Sabres, Senators, and Red Wings also growing and improving, and none of the Bruins/Leafs/Lightning and even Panthers going anywhere.

Buffalo is very close to competing - Levi could be their final missing piece if he is a legitimate NHL-tender.

The Red Wings are sort of in that pretender territory unless they have some young players make the jump like Seider/Raymond have.

The Senators are definitely a lot better with the roster additions they've made; the DeBrincat deal could hamstring them long-term though; their defense is still a bit weak defensively, and their goaltending is a huge area of concern.

The Bruins are still an elite team, and with Lindholm/McAvoy/Pasta and their young goaltenders they should be a playoff contender for the foreseeable future - but the best pieces of their team beyond that; Krejci, Bergeron, Marchand - are all on the way out, with nothing in the pipeline to replace them. Come 2024/25, the Bruins will start missing or being a wild card team.

The Lightning are ... well, they are the back-to-back-to-back SC Finalists. However, their core is undoubtedly aging, and while JB can keep pulling magic tricks to add depth players to help them go on runs, eventually their luck will run out and years of hemorrhaging prospects and draft capital will absolutely catch up to them.

The Panthers are going to just keep being the Panthers. Tkachuk, Barkov, Verhaeghe, Knight and Ekblad mean they will for the foreseeable future have a strong core of players - but for whatever reason Florida perpetually fails to get it done when it matters.

The Leafs are at the end of their window. With Nylander, Matthews and Marner all needing new deals soon, one of them is going to end up wearing a different teams jersey. In the magical event all three get extended, the GM (whether it's Dubas or his successor) is going to have a hell of a time playing cap gymnastics without trading Morgan or Captain PJs, both of which would be a colossal failure.

Montreal is in a great spot but is still treading water. Of all the above teams, Montreal has the most "could be" prospects, from Hutson and Mailloux to Roy, Beck, Mesar, Kidney, Farrell and Slafkovsky. Who Montreal leaves the draft with this year will make a substantial difference; because adding Bedard/Fantilli or Michkov or Reinbacher + PLD could drastically change the dynamic of this team moving forward. Goaltending is another question mark in Montreal, similar to all non-Boston/Tampa teams in the division - but probably the best 'young group' of players in the NHL (Dach, Suzuki, Caufield, Guhle, Xhekaj, Harris, Barron, Slafkovsky) with the potential for that U23 group to get deeper this year.


In terms of "close to playoffs" -> Bruins > Toronto = Tampa > Florida = Buffalo > Sens > Habs = Red Wings

In terms of "likelihood to be an elite team in 3-5 years" -> Buffalo > Montreal > Sens > Detroit as of right now.

 

[General Fanager]

I don't see a scenario where the Flyers trade Carter Hart, after decades of looking for a bonafide starting goaltender. Especially given the lack of return goalies get in trade.

Normally I would agree but rebuilds take 3-5 years at best and he would be 27-29 by then. That's also assuming he would want to stay through a rebuild....

 

[FlyguyOX]

Lets not act like Briere is working the phones on week-end to get rid of Hart asap.
The lost faith statement is over the top.

Remember title of thread and OP’s team…

If he had no faith in him, he wouldnt ask, right?
If he had faith in Montambeault, he wouldnt ask, right?

Sometimes too many is too many. I already see 6 dmen, 4 very young. Not even including Joel and Kovacevic. No room for Struble, Hutson, Mailloux. Cant play 6 young guys. Thats 11 bodies. You need 7.

Matheson, Savard, Guhle, Xman i view as safe. Hutson too even if 2 yrs away.

4 names: Harris, Barron, Struble, Mailloux they could dangle one without losing any sleep imo if it helps getting Hart.

i could see Philly being interested.

I’m still not doing Hart for Struble straight up but it would be a nice start.

Forward is crowded too… 11 players back, not counting Monahan, Gurianov. Not including any of Heineman, RHP, Farrell, Ylonen. Thats 17. You need around 13. Imagine trying to play Kidney, Roy, Beck in 2 yrs.

Time for quality over quantity?

Harris, Ylonen and salary dump (Hoffman or Edmundson) for Hart.

This man said Struble lol.

Harris, a 3rd pair d-man, Ylonen, a C+ bottom 6 prospect and a cap dump for Hart?

Absolutely ridiculous and Briere never picks up the phone again for that offer

Buffalo is very close to competing - Levi could be their final missing piece if he is a legitimate NHL-tender.

The Red Wings are sort of in that pretender territory unless they have some young players make the jump like Seider/Raymond have.

The Senators are definitely a lot better with the roster additions they've made; the DeBrincat deal could hamstring them long-term though; their defense is still a bit weak defensively, and their goaltending is a huge area of concern.

The Bruins are still an elite team, and with Lindholm/McAvoy/Pasta and their young goaltenders they should be a playoff contender for the foreseeable future - but the best pieces of their team beyond that; Krejci, Bergeron, Marchand - are all on the way out, with nothing in the pipeline to replace them. Come 2024/25, the Bruins will start missing or being a wild card team.

The Lightning are ... well, they are the back-to-back-to-back SC Finalists. However, their core is undoubtedly aging, and while JB can keep pulling magic tricks to add depth players to help them go on runs, eventually their luck will run out and years of hemorrhaging prospects and draft capital will absolutely catch up to them.

The Panthers are going to just keep being the Panthers. Tkachuk, Barkov, Verhaeghe, Knight and Ekblad mean they will for the foreseeable future have a strong core of players - but for whatever reason Florida perpetually fails to get it done when it matters.

The Leafs are at the end of their window. With Nylander, Matthews and Marner all needing new deals soon, one of them is going to end up wearing a different teams jersey. In the magical event all three get extended, the GM (whether it's Dubas or his successor) is going to have a hell of a time playing cap gymnastics without trading Morgan or Captain PJs, both of which would be a colossal failure.

Montreal is in a great spot but is still treading water. Of all the above teams, Montreal has the most "could be" prospects, from Hutson and Mailloux to Roy, Beck, Mesar, Kidney, Farrell and Slafkovsky. Who Montreal leaves the draft with this year will make a substantial difference; because adding Bedard/Fantilli or Michkov or Reinbacher + PLD could drastically change the dynamic of this team moving forward. Goaltending is another question mark in Montreal, similar to all non-Boston/Tampa teams in the division - but probably the best 'young group' of players in the NHL (Dach, Suzuki, Caufield, Guhle, Xhekaj, Harris, Barron, Slafkovsky) with the potential for that U23 group to get deeper this year.


In terms of "close to playoffs" -> Bruins > Toronto = Tampa > Florida = Buffalo > Sens > Habs = Red Wings

In terms of "likelihood to be an elite team in 3-5 years" -> Buffalo > Montreal > Sens > Detroit as of right now.

Montreal ahead of sens? What are you smoking

 

[Unbiased Fan]

To repost an image from before:

View attachment 669948

What's he done? More games than any goalie his age ever except Vasi, Mason and Price and he's doing it on piss poor teams too.

He's 24, most goalies are only just hitting the NHL in the first place. People pay a lot for potential in this league.

Him and Mason are extremely comparable

 

[SensontheRush]

Tbh i expect more nos than yeahs on that ask.
Philly might end up with a 2nd pair dman and a 2nd line winger.
I put many names out there. Mix and match.

Haha, I appreciate you putting up with me being crude.

One thing that needs to be said is I think GMs prefer getting draft picks over the already-drafted prospects of another team. Unless they are a can't miss prospect.

There is some massive undervaluing of Hart in this thread as well. Not you per se, but c'mon, Montembeault is nowhere in the same league as Hart.

The package for Hart likely begins with a 1st round pick, with other stuff added in.

Honestly a mid 1st, Ylonen and Harris seems about fair (maybe add a 4th?), but unfortunately MTL isn't that far along their rebuild to be trading away 1sts.

That's me being not much of a fan of Harris though. I don't know how much NHL staying power he has.

Edit: I don't know, I'm flip-flopping, even my counteroffer suggestion seems a little weak. I think to get Hart there needs to be that surefire prospect, to get Philadelphia to listen at least.

 

[ole ole]

Haha, I appreciate you putting up with me being crude.

One thing that needs to be said is I think GMs prefer getting draft picks over the already-drafted prospects of another team. Unless they are a can't miss prospect.

There is some massive undervaluing of Hart in this thread as well. Not you per se, but c'mon, Montembeault is nowhere in the same league as Hart.

The package for Hart likely begins with a 1st round pick, with other stuff added in.

Honestly a mid 1st, Ylonen and Harris seems about fair (maybe add a 4th?), but unfortunately MTL isn't that far along their rebuild to be trading away 1sts.

That's me being not much of a fan of Harris though. I don't know how much NHL staying power he has.

Edit: I don't know, I'm flip-flopping, even my counteroffer suggestion seems a little weak. I think to get Hart there needs to be that surefire prospect, to get Philadelphia to listen at least.

IMO high chance Panthers 1st is involved in a trade for PLD.
That leaves the Habs pick which is as of now the 5th OA. We are not trading that for Carter Hart let alone add.