Value of: Carter Hart to Habs

[Qwijibo]

Mtl second is a decent sweetener but I'd prefer a 24 first and that's on top of a premium asset. Hart is just entering his prime and the flyers particularly with a rebuild underway should only move him if it makes that seriously closer

What has Hart done in the past few years to justify that kind of return? Montembeault’s stats are very similar (in fact his goals saved above expected per 60 is better than Hart’s) and they got him off waivers. I’d just as soon run with Allen and Montembeault again rather than give up two very valuable assets for a guy who , at the moment, is only a slight upgrade on Montembeault

 

[Flyer lurker]

And if Philly hadn't lost faith in Hart, he wouldn't be on the market.

Every flyer is on the market because its time to rebuild.

The flyers strongest positions in the organization are g and rw

Ersson is a legit goalie (whether a 1,1a, or 2 is to be seen) and Fedotov IF he comes over is a legit prospect at g.

If you don't want Hart its your opinion. But don't be a liar to make yourself look better.

 

[pth2]

Every flyer is on the market because its time to rebuild.

The flyers strongest positions in the organization are g and rw

Ersson is a legit goalie (whether a 1,1a, or 2 is to be seen) and Fedotov IF he comes over is a legit prospect at g.

If you don't want Hart its your opinion. But don't be a liar to make yourself look better.

How am I lying ? You're putting a young goalie on the market when the other prospects haven't proven much of anything. Clearly, you've lost faith. Teams with young goalies don't put them on the market until the upcoming goalie has shown he can take over the role... and often it's the kid that's dealt since teams hang onto #1's.

 

[Flyer lurker]

How am I lying ? You're putting a young goalie on the market when the other prospects haven't proven much of anything. Clearly, you've lost faith. Teams with young goalies don't put them on the market until the upcoming goalie has shown he can take over the role... and often it's the kid that's dealt since teams hang onto #1's.

Putting a player on the market is not losing faith. Nonsensical statement.

In the off season Scott Laughton should be on the trade market. Should he on the market because he isn't good? Nonsense. He should he on the market because a rebuilding team should listen to what value a 29 year old .5 ppg 2 way player making 3m is worth.

Romanov is good example. Did habs put Romanov of the market because they were disappointed? NO. They put him of the market because pick 13 is just too good to pass up on.

Not every player teams are looking to trade are disappointing.

EVERY FLYER IS AVAILABLE. Even Konecky.

Some players are flawed like Hayes that need to go. That is the case sometimes.
This isn't a sign of flaws in Hart, Konecky, etc. It is a sign of how much of a bozo Flusher is/was.

 

[pth2]

Not every player teams are looking to trade are disappointing.

When a rebuilding team moves a young player, it's not a good look.

Goalies are a rare breed. You really need a good one, and they are unpredictable, so when you have a good one, you hang onto him.

When's the last time a team moved a young goalie without having a better alternative with enough of a track record to know they weren't leaping into the unknown ?

My point remains - Philly can't ask for the return on a young Carey Price when their moving Hart shows they don't think he's actually a young Carey Price.

 

[Flyer lurker]

When a rebuilding team moves a young player, it's not a good look.

So when habs traded Romanov it wasn't about getting the right trade value but the look of Romanov?

When stars trades a 1 for Lundkvist its because Lundkvist didn't look good?

Fiala was traded because he didn't look good?

Its really is ok to trade young players and both teams win

 

[Flyer lurker]

When's the last time a team moved a young goalie without having a better alternative with enough of a track record to know they weren't leaping into the unknown ?

The dumbest thing the ducks didn't do was trade Gibson 5 years ago. They would have got a truck load of picks and prospects. Instead they kept him, overplayed him in front of a horrible d and he is toast.

 

[pth2]

So when habs traded Romanov it wasn't about getting the right trade value but the look of Romanov?

When stars trades a 1 for Lundkvist its because Lundkvist didn't look good?

Fiala was traded because he didn't look good?

Its really is ok to trade young players and both teams win

Goalies are a special breed. My post explained this.

 

[Flyer lurker]

Goalies are a special breed. My post explained this.

And its this line of thinking that has the ducks 3 years away from being 3 years away

 

[ole ole]

And its this line of thinking that has the ducks 3 years away from being 3 years away

Well than we don't want to end up being like the Ducks so we shouldn't be trading for Hart.

 

[captainpaxil]

With a gergorin cup and a spectacular Olympics I'm very confident in fedotov. Ersson is 22 and also looking promising. So between them the flyers could solidify the position after trading their best player.
The only reason you move hart is because he'd justifiably return a haul so that the next guy didn't have the same crap in front of him. Otherwise I wait and deal the prospects for lesser assets as they come along

 

[JRichard]

With a gergorin cup and a spectacular Olympics I'm very confident in fedotov. Ersson is 22 and also looking promising. So between them the flyers could solidify the position after trading their best player.
The only reason you move hart is because he'd justifiably return a haul so that the next guy didn't have the same crap in front of him. Otherwise I wait and deal the prospects for lesser assets as they come along

Ersson 23 and 6 months but mostly agree.

 

[Flyer lurker]

Well than we don't want to end up being like the Ducks so we shouldn't be trading for Hart.

If you are not ready to compete for a playoff run(not appearance run) the habs should not be trading for Hart. 100% agree.

The sabers are a goalie away from being a 95-100 point team. They should be all in. You put Hart in Buffalo they are a fascinating team

But habs? They have another year to try and find another goalie. It you get fortunate you find Jack Campbell 21-22. If you are unfortunate you get Jack Campbell 22-23.

 

[JRichard]

If you are not ready to compete for a playoff run(not appearance run) the habs should not be trading for Hart. 100% agree.

The sabers are a goalie away from being a 95-100 point team. They should be all in. You put Hart in Buffalo they are a fascinating team

But habs? They have another year to try and find another goalie. It you get fortunate you find Jack Campbell 21-22. If you are unfortunate you get Jack Campbell 22-23.

Thing is Sabres are (very) patient and they have their own goalies coming in Levi and Portillo.
Many Habs fans believe they are ahead of Buffalo.
And its Habs fans asking for Hart, not Sabres.

It also makes for interesting convos when their older Sam M is having a great year (.906 3.29 36 g) but the 2 yr younger Hart is meh (.909 2.90 52 g).

 

[Flyer lurker]

Thing is Sabres are (very) patient and they have their own goalies coming in Levi and Portillo.
Many Habs fans believe they are ahead of Buffalo.
And its Habs fans asking for Hart, not Sabres.

It also makes for interesting convos when their older Sam M is having a great year (.906 3.29 36 g) but the 2 yr younger Hart is meh (.909 2.90 52 g).

Hart was 1 sv expected percentage 1st month of year and got overplayed because Torts didn't want to play a backup with 2 win out of 20+ games.

Then ADA got paired with Sanheim and wrecked Sanheim's progress over the last 2 years.

But keep telling yourself Hart is mediocre LOL

 

[Flyer lurker]

For those that don't get Carter Hart's level let review flyers 22-23
Carter Hart player out of his mind first 30 days.
Torts has a backup that has is lifetime 2-15-4. So he overused Carter Hart badly.
Provorov ada pairing was a mess.
So flyers moved ada with Sanheim and Sanheim had his worst 40 game stretch in 5 years because ada is that bad. When ada has rankings at a 1 its not because is at norris level.
Torts sent down York early because York had a bad camp and Torts wanted to show of his 2 inches.
Flyers from game 1-45 were brutal outside of Hart and Konecky. How Hayes made all star team over Konecky shows the collective stupidity of people voting.
Torts going full torts jerking around farabee, frost, sanheim and others for 45 games.
Without Hart the flyers would have been easily worse than the ducks

Is Hart a 60 game Vazy? no He is a 50-32/47-35 split goalie. really good player. Yes its takes a coach to not be a buffoon to play his every day out of camp. Yes it takes more than Seeler being the only d guy to play to his capabilities (and wiith Seeler that sure ain't much).

 

[TBF1972]

How am I lying ? You're putting a young goalie on the market when the other prospects haven't proven much of anything. Clearly, you've lost faith. Teams with young goalies don't put them on the market until the upcoming goalie has shown he can take over the role... and often it's the kid that's dealt since teams hang onto #1's.

so all those price trade proposals were made by none montreal fans.

 

[Flyer lurker]

so all those price trade proposals were made by none montreal fans.

Drouin is still really good and has trade value pairing with Mckinnon I think I have heard for 3 years. Every body has their hometown favs I get it and I sure am entertained. But when only your players are good and everyone's elses are mediocre u just have to chuckle.

 

[Qwijibo]

For those that don't get Carter Hart's level let review flyers 22-23
Carter Hart player out of his mind first 30 days.
Torts has a backup that has is lifetime 2-15-4. So he overused Carter Hart badly.
Provorov ada pairing was a mess.
So flyers moved ada with Sanheim and Sanheim had his worst 40 game stretch in 5 years because ada is that bad. When ada has rankings at a 1 its not because is at norris level.
Torts sent down York early because York had a bad camp and Torts wanted to show of his 2 inches.
Flyers from game 1-45 were brutal outside of Hart and Konecky. How Hayes made all star team over Konecky shows the collective stupidity of people voting.
Torts going full torts jerking around farabee, frost, sanheim and others for 45 games.
Without Hart the flyers would have been easily worse than the ducks

Is Hart a 60 game Vazy? no He is a 50-32/47-35 split goalie. really good player. Yes its takes a coach to not be a buffoon to play his every day out of camp. Yes it takes more than Seeler being the only d guy to play to his capabilities (and wiith Seeler that sure ain't much).

You can find whatever excuses you like to pump up his value. But his stats all say the same thing. He’s a slightly above average starter. Even his goals saved above expected per 60 (which factors on shot quality, and by extension, the weakness of the team in front of him) has him ranked at 14 amount goalies with 30+ starts. (By comparison Montembeault is 11th).

It’s not that we don’t think he’s a good goalie. We just don’t think he’s worth giving up a kings ransom to get.

 

[Mersss]

For those that don't get Carter Hart's level let review flyers 22-23
Carter Hart player out of his mind first 30 days.
Torts has a backup that has is lifetime 2-15-4. So he overused Carter Hart badly.
Provorov ada pairing was a mess.
So flyers moved ada with Sanheim and Sanheim had his worst 40 game stretch in 5 years because ada is that bad. When ada has rankings at a 1 its not because is at norris level.
Torts sent down York early because York had a bad camp and Torts wanted to show of his 2 inches.
Flyers from game 1-45 were brutal outside of Hart and Konecky. How Hayes made all star team over Konecky shows the collective stupidity of people voting.
Torts going full torts jerking around farabee, frost, sanheim and others for 45 games.
Without Hart the flyers would have been easily worse than the ducks

Is Hart a 60 game Vazy? no He is a 50-32/47-35 split goalie. really good player. Yes its takes a coach to not be a buffoon to play his every day out of camp. Yes it takes more than Seeler being the only d guy to play to his capabilities (and wiith Seeler that sure ain't much).

So what you are saying is, unless Hart has a good team in in front of him, he's an average goalie that can't play more than 50games...

Yet, Flyers want a top15 pick for that Goalie...

Funnt Prive had terrible teams in front of him for his entire career, playing only one season with a player close to PPG, and yet Habs were always contending for the playoffs.

If Hart had that kind of potential / talent, Flyer would be in the playoffs cause their team isn't nearly as bad as others, they have a decent top6 with a good top3 on D.

Fact is Hart hasn't lived up to expectation and, as of now, is nothing more than a 20-30 #1G right now.

Hell even Sam Montembeault has better stats then him playing in IMO one of the 3 worse team in the NHL. Yet he's not worth a top15 pick

 

[Flyer lurker]

You can find whatever excuses you like to pump up his value. But his stats all say the same thing. He’s a slightly above average starter. Even his goals saved above expected per 60 (which factors on shot quality, and by extension, the weakness of the team in front of him) has him ranked at 14 amount goalies with 30+ starts. (By comparison Montembeault is 11th).

It’s not that we don’t think he’s a good goalie. We just don’t think he’s worth giving up a kings ransom to get.

I said the habs shouldn't give up the kings ransom. QW I think we are pretty close to same thinking. good goalie but not Vazy elite level. Habs aren't winning next year and should try young goalies one more year. Maybe take a shot on Blackwood and hope you can repair him. Now Sabers with a goalie are legit 100 point team next year. Unless they are convinced Levi is ready next year they should be listening. Its when people say Hart is mediocre and I busting out laughing.

So what you are saying is, unless Hart has a good team in in front of him, he's an average goalie that can't play more than 50games...

Yet, Flyers want a top15 pick for that Goalie...

Funnt Prive had terrible teams in front of him for his entire career, playing only one season with a player close to PPG, and yet Habs were always contending for the playoffs.

If Hart had that kind of potential / talent, Flyer would be in the playoffs cause their team isn't nearly as bad as others, they have a decent top6 with a good top3 on D.

Fact is Hart hasn't lived up to expectation and, as of now, is nothing more than a 20-30 #1G right now.

Hell even Sam Montembeault has better stats then him playing in IMO one of the 3 worse team in the NHL. Yet he's not worth a top15 pick

I am saying Patrick Roy in his prime couldn't make ada look good.

 

[Flyer lurker]

There is no goalie on God's green earth that could geta 920 sv% with
ada
risto
seeler
braun

on your defense.

Is it really that hard to understand?

 

[Flyer lurker]

now if u wants a reporter's viewpoint Hart is ranked 11th 22/23

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thehockeywriters.com

Not elite.
but very good

 

[Gabrielor]

Putting a player on the market is not losing faith. Nonsensical statement.

Example: 2014 TDL: Ryan Miller

 

[Mersss]

I said the habs shouldn't give up the kings ransom. QW I think we are pretty close to same thinking. good goalie but not Vazy elite level. Habs aren't winning next year and should try young goalies one more year. Maybe take a shot on Blackwood and hope you can repair him. Now Sabers with a goalie are legit 100 point team next year. Unless they are convinced Levi is ready next year they should be listening. Its when people say Hart is mediocre and I busting out laughing.


I am saying Patrick Roy in his prime couldn't make ada look good.

ADA is ONE player. Fact is, the Flyers aren't a team as bad as you make it sound, and Hart, if he played like an elite #1 like you seem to try to picture him like, they would be in playoff contention.

The last goalie traded for a top15 pick had a Vezina year calibre the year he was traded (Schneider). Until Hart reaches such standards, he's not worth a top15 pick, even less in a draft this good.