Value of: Carter Hart to Habs

[HabsQC]

yeah, I think the lou to Vancouver is the closest - 5 yrs into his career. 6 I guess he played a part of a season on the Island before they chose DiPietro over him. Great numbers but on a losing team.

If they move him I suspect its a 1st, prospect and a established 1b type goalie type return

What about Schneider for 1st (Horvat)

 

[Qwijibo]

Oh yeah because Romanov who went for 13th overall and Ristolainen who went for 14th and a 2nd are better players than Hart lol.

Goalies don’t get great returns. They tend to be wildly inconsistent and are often a product of the system they’re in.

Look at a guy like Markstrom. Last year he put up career numbers and posted 9 shutouts. This year he can’t stop a beach ball. It’s things like thst that prevent GM’s from drafting goalies with high picks or spending significant assets to acquire them. You can often get a much less heralded guy who will perform just as good if not better for pennys on the dollar.

 

[Chainshot]

What about Schneider for 1st (Horvat)

That was 11 years ago.

 

[Qwijibo]

That was 11 years ago.

And Schneider was coming off a Vezina quality season

 

[JRichard]

And Schneider was coming off a Vezina quality season

Maybe you mean the 15-16 season where he got a few votes but not a single vote for Schneider in 12-13 or year before-after…

 

[Qwijibo]

Maybe you mean the 15-16 season where he got a few votes but not a single vote for Schneider in 12-13 or year before-after…

Regardless. He had a much more established track record and had a .927 save percentage and a 2.11 gaa.

Even in Hart’s best season (5 years ago) he hasn’t come close to that.

 

[JRichard]

Regardless. He had a much more established track record and had a .927 save percentage and a 2.11 gaa.

Even in Hart’s best season (5 years ago) he hasn’t come close to that.

Schneider played 4 po games with the Devils in 7 seasons. As in lost in 4. Thats what happens when you play on a bad team. At least Hart played 14 already. 9 wins .926
Schneider was 27 when traded. Hart is 24 today.
At 24 Schneider had 10 nhl games played. Carter has 200.

 

[captainpaxil]

Regardless. He had a much more established track record and had a .927 save percentage and a 2.11 gaa.

Even in Hart’s best season (5 years ago) he hasn’t come close to that.

At harts age Schneider was a prospect with less pedigree than hart. Hart is a playoff proven starter. Not looking for a repeat of the last time Philly traded a promising young goalie (Bobrovski)

 

[Qwijibo]

Schneider played 4 po games with the Devils in 7 seasons. As in lost in 4. Thats what happens when you play on a bad team. At least Hart played 14 already. 9 wins .926
Schneider was 27 when traded. Hart is 24 today.
At 24 Schneider had 10 nhl games played. Carter has 200.

Schneider’s trsde value was based on what he did in Vancouver. All his poor performance in NJ does is illustrate my point that GM’s are wary of paying a price for a goalie. So the one example of a goalie getting a top 10 pick in the last 11 years is a cautionary tale for GM’s. If you expect a big return for him you’re likely going to be disappointed. Just keep him if you believe he’s such a rste commodity

 

[FlyguyOX]

Goalies don’t get great returns. They tend to be wildly inconsistent and are often a product of the system they’re in.

Look at a guy like Markstrom. Last year he put up career numbers and posted 9 shutouts. This year he can’t stop a beach ball. It’s things like thst that prevent GM’s from drafting goalies with high picks or spending significant assets to acquire them. You can often get a much less heralded guy who will perform just as good if not better for pennys on the dollar.

Idk man or you could be the devils and think “surely one of Blackwood, Vanicek, Schmid or Bernier will be good enough” and yet that be the only position that holds you back in the playoffs. It definitely matters in the playoffs.

 

[CDN24]

What about Schneider for 1st (Horvat)

I forgot about that one

 

[JRichard]

Very few goalies have 200 games at 24. Carey Price comes to mind.
Hart at 24: 196 gp 81 wins 2.96 .906
Price at 24: 198 gp 98 wins 2.63 .915

if one was an all-star goalie, the other has to be at least a number 1 g.

Price improved next 5 years too between 24-28.

 

[Haatley]

Very few goalies have 200 games at 24. Carey Price comes to mind.
Hart at 24: 196 gp 81 wins 2.96 .906
Price at 24: 198 gp 98 wins 2.63 .915

if one was an all-star goalie, the other has to be at least a number 1 g.

Price improved next 5 years too between 24-28.

All players develop exactly the same too.

 

[FlyguyOX]

Very few goalies have 200 games at 24. Carey Price comes to mind.
Hart at 24: 196 gp 81 wins 2.96 .906
Price at 24: 198 gp 98 wins 2.63 .915

if one was an all-star goalie, the other has to be at least a number 1 g.

Price improved next 5 years too between 24-28.

Looking at their GSAx seasons in those ages and they look very similar if you take out Hart's covid-ruined season where the team imploded and he was a young kid struggling with injury and depression from isolation (he toughed through it and didn't enter player assistance programs like other young goalies cough Knight cough).

Very similar goalies by the advanced stats in those ages.

 

[JRichard]

All players develop exactly the same too.

Not saying that. But tell me Hart cant improve… Tell me he isnt a number 1 goalie since he got in the league at 20 yrs old.

Looking at their GSAx seasons in those ages and they look very similar if you take out Hart's covid-ruined season where the team imploded and he was a young kid struggling with injury and depression from isolation (he toughed through it and didn't enter player assistance programs like other young goalies cough Knight cough).

Very similar goalies by the advanced stats in those ages.

View attachment 674444

Gonna get ripped for comparing the 2 but overall point is you dont trade Hart for a second round pick.

 

[FlyguyOX]

Not saying that. But tell me Hart cant improve… Tell me he isnt a number 1 goalie since he got in the league at 20 yrs old.


Gonna get ripped for comparing the 2 but overall point is you dont trade Hart for a second round pick.

U24 playoff performance...

 

[StewieP19]

All depend what will be the plan for the Flyers front office If they trade Hart a lot of players (young core)
Will be traded to restart a new rebuild. But I think Flyers Fans don't want it

 

[JRichard]

All depend what will be the plan for the Flyers front office If they trade Hart a lot of players (young core)
Will be traded to restart a new rebuild. But I think Flyers Fans don't want it

pretty sure most Philly fans would be happy with trading a few of Provorov, Konecny as they know it will take a few years to compete. Hart is a keeper for vast majority at 24. Everyone over 25 should be made available.

trading prime Schenn for 2 firsts (Frost and farabee) was start of the rebuild. Fletcher then made clueless moves.

Cates, Tippett, York already young nhlers. Gauthier seems like cant miss.
Jury still out on next wave Brink, Foerster, Andrae, Zamula, Desnoyers, Ersson.

returns should be a prospects around 20-21 blocked on their contending teams. And 1st picks. Mix and match.

Habs no good trading partners as they should not trade their prospects since they are in same situation.

 

[Qwijibo]

Not saying that. But tell me Hart cant improve… Tell me he isnt a number 1 goalie since he got in the league at 20 yrs old.


Gonna get ripped for comparing the 2 but overall point is you dont trade Hart for a second round pick.

Not saying he can’t improve. But overall he’s been trending in the wrong direction since his rookie season. And my original point holds. GM’s are well aware that goalies are wildly unpredictable and as such they seldom pay big for them in trades. Philly is better off keeping him and hope that he does improve as the team rebuilds

 

[CanuckistanFlyerfan]

Not saying he can’t improve. But overall he’s been trending in the wrong direction since his rookie season.

You have to take into consideration the complete garbage that Fletcher put in front of him. Keith Yandle. Tony Deangelo. Rasmus Ristolainen. I defy you to find a more inept threesome defensively.

And my original point holds. GM’s are well aware that goalies are wildly unpredictable and as such they seldom pay big for them in trades. Philly is better off keeping him and hope that he does improve as the team rebuilds

Goalies certainly don't usually bring in a large return. And I'd prefer to keep him. Cheers.

 

[ole ole]

Looking at their GSAx seasons in those ages and they look very similar if you take out Hart's covid-ruined season where the team imploded and he was a young kid struggling with injury and depression from isolation (he toughed through it and didn't enter player assistance programs like other young goalies cough Knight cough).

Very similar goalies by the advanced stats in those ages.

View attachment 674444

Are you seriously trying to compare Hart to Price.

 

[ML16]

pretty sure most Philly fans would be happy with trading a few of Provorov, Konecny as they know it will take a few years to compete. Hart is a keeper for vast majority at 24. Everyone over 25 should be made available.

trading prime Schenn for 2 firsts (Frost and farabee) was start of the rebuild. Fletcher then made clueless moves.

Cates, Tippett, York already young nhlers. Gauthier seems like cant miss.
Jury still out on next wave Brink, Foerster, Andrae, Zamula, Desnoyers, Ersson.

returns should be a prospects around 20-21 blocked on their contending teams. And 1st picks. Mix and match.

Habs no good trading partners as they should not trade their prospects since they are in same situation.

I think the Habs can definitely afford at this stage to leverage draft and/or prospects capital on a U25G, and Hart seems like a good buy low candidate for them.

Considering the Flyers don’t have their own 2nd and 3rd round picks this summer, nor their 2nd round pick in 2024, and that Ersson shows a lot of promise, would Philadelphia consider: Hart vs Allen + MTL’s 2023 (high) 2nd + COL’s 2024 2nd as a discussion starter?

 

[dirtydanglez]

I think the Habs can definitely afford at this stage to leverage draft and/or prospects capital on a U25G, and Hart seems like a good buy low candidate for them.

Considering the Flyers don’t have their own 2nd and 3rd round picks this summer, nor their 2nd round pick in 2024, and that Ersson shows a lot of promise, would Philadelphia consider: Hart vs Allen + MTL’s 2023 (high) 2nd + COL’s 2024 2nd as a discussion starter?

id imagine another team would beat that.

habs might have to include fla 1st in a trade.

 

[MoneyManny]

I don't see any GM trading a young, potentially very good goalie that's proven himself in the playoffs for a 2nd round pick.



What are even the odds of the 2nd round pick even becoming a regular NHLer? Litterally no incentive to do this.



Value is based on demand and the demand for goalies is sky high in the league right now.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Anderson, Dvorak, Drouin, Armia and a 5th.