Value of: Carey Price 50% retained to your team

[pth2]

Price obviously has a HoF resume but I don’t see many, if any teams, interested in him until he shows that he’s still a capable starter after his recovery from substance abuse. I’m assuming the Habs are planning to showcase him as soon as he’s fit to go.

To me, it's a given all trades discussed here are conditional on his getting into a few games and showing he's good to go, and that he's willing to lift his NMC to go to wherever, so he's not getting traded somewhere he wouldn't want to go.

 

[BobClarkesfrontteeth]

The guy was on like a run of 27-1 playoff record until the Tampa series while getting 3 goals support. It may not have been exactly 27-1, but something like that. Definitely only 1 loss in twenty something wins woth decent offensive support.

This is on a shit Montreal team. Good teams don’t want to trade middling prospects for a guy with that kind of playoff pedigree. It just doesn’t make any sense to me. I fully believe that if Colorado traded for him 3 years ago, they’d have a Cup by now. That’s the route I’d take, rather than hold onto to hope that some prospect does indeed turn into a top line player (which they already gave plenty of).

LMAO I would love to live in the alternate world some of the Habs fans live in. Carey Price was 13 and 9 in the playoffs. No where close to 20 wins and 1 loss. I think someone slipped something in your drink a La Cage Aux Sport.

 

[koyvoo]

LMAO I would love to live in the alternate world some of the Habs fans live in. Carey Price was 13 and 9 in the playoffs. No where close to 20 wins and 1 loss. I think someone slipped something in your drink a La Cage Aux Sport.

No, they mentioned it during the playoffs more than once. Up until some point in the final, he was on a run of something like 27-1, when getting 3 goals support from his skaters.

For the overwhelming majority of his career, he’s played for mediocre to decent, at best, teams in front of him.

I mentioned the same stat in another thread, and another poster at least did mention that although it may not have been exactly 27-1 (I mentioned in original post it was something along those lines), but indeed it was something obscure like that, which was brought up more than one broadcast during the last playoff run.

 

[BobClarkesfrontteeth]

No, they mentioned it during the playoffs more than once. Up until some point in the final, he was on a run of something like 27-1, when getting 3 goals support from his skaters.

For the overwhelming majority of his career, he’s played for mediocre to decent, at best, teams in front of him.

I mentioned the same stat in another thread, and another poster at least did mention that although it may not have been exactly 27-1 (I mentioned in original post it was something along those lines), but indeed it was something obscure like that, which was brought up more than one broadcast during the last playoff run.

Ahhh ok. I read your first post as he was 27-1 until playing Tampa just for the 2021 playoffs. Makes more sense now. Price is the best goalie on the planet when he is on. The trouble is he is more and more off than on. Add in his no movement clause and the return even at 50% retained is going to be very disappointing.

The really problem that Montreal is going to have is any player that they want to move last season was at the absolute pinnacle for them as a team and individuals. They played so far over their heads. Habs fans see these players with these emotions and think everyone is worth a huge haul while the rest of the league judges these players on their whole career and career trajectories moving forward. Gorton has his work cut out for him. He did a great job in New York so there is hope he can do the same in Montreal. But I think the mess Bergeron left is double what Gorton had to deal with in NY.

 

[McJedi]

Not likely he is being traded this season yes. But things can change from now till March. This Price trade talk is not going away

not from the desperate Habs fan peanut gallery hoping for a windfall trade that won’t materialize.

Your trade talk speculation is likely 0.00% from real NHL GMs that have no interest or intention to trade for that garbage contract and his other baggage.

chiarot is probably the only Habs player drawing legit trade chatter right now.

 

[McJedi]

Ahhh ok. I read your first post as he was 27-1 until playing Tampa just for the 2021 playoffs. Makes more sense now. Price is the best goalie on the planet when he is on. The trouble is he is more and more off than on. Add in his no movement clause and the return even at 50% retained is going to be very disappointing.

The really problem that Montreal is going to have is any player that they want to move last season was at the absolute pinnacle for them as a team and individuals. They played so far over their heads. Habs fans see these players with these emotions and think everyone is worth a huge haul while the rest of the league judges these players on their whole career and career trajectories moving forward. Gorton has his work cut out for him. He did a great job in New York so there is hope he can do the same in Montreal. But I think the mess Bergeron left is double what Gorton had to deal with in NY.

sakic would quickly hang up at an offer of Caufield for Newhook. Habs fans probably think Caufield should net them a top 10 2022 pick + an A prospect. Their sense of Habs player value is routinely an exercise in deciphering gibberish.

 

[glenbuis]

sakic would quickly hang up at an offer of Caufield for Newhook. Habs fans probably think Caufield should net them a top 10 2022 pick + an A prospect. Their sense of Habs player value is routinely an exercise in deciphering gibberish.

i find it odd how those weak hab players could have the ability to take out the vegas golden knights . you know that same vegas team that eliminated your amazing avalanche. it'll be interesting to see how colorado expects to get by vegas this year once eichel gets up to speed . maybe the defense this year will be up to the task

 

[BlueBrunswick]

not from the desperate Habs fan peanut gallery hoping for a windfall trade that won’t materialize.

Your trade talk speculation is likely 0.00% from real NHL GMs that have no interest or intention to trade for that garbage contract and his other baggage.

chiarot is probably the only Habs player drawing legit trade chatter right now.

Edmonton is talking to the Habs, and it's about Chiarot

 

[TBF1972]

The guy was on like a run of 27-1 playoff record until the Tampa series while getting 3 goals support. It may not have been exactly 27-1, but something like that. Definitely only 1 loss in twenty something wins woth decent offensive support.

This is on a shit Montreal team. Good teams don’t want to trade middling prospects for a guy with that kind of playoff pedigree. It just doesn’t make any sense to me. I fully believe that if Colorado traded for him 3 years ago, they’d have a Cup by now. That’s the route I’d take, rather than hold onto to hope that some prospect does indeed turn into a top line player (which they already gave plenty of).

23.05.2021 TOR 5 - MTL 1
25.05.2021 MTL 1 - TOR 2
26.05.2021 MTL 0 - TOR 4

so games against toronto don't count or 'decent offensive support' means, when the offense wins the games, carey price gets recognized for it.

 

[Gaud]

Actually, the best outcome for MTL if not to trade Price but for him to retire or LTIR like Weber. His contract is impossible to trade and retaining in a deal is counter productive on all level. In terms of asset acquisition in a potential trade, the only way he can return something is if MTL retain and again, why would they handcuff themselves that much?

If Price still wants to play and win, his best option is mutual termination of the contract and move on to a cup contender.

I'm of the view that his re-conditioning right now is driven by a potential Olympic spot. I wouldn't be surprised if he call it at the end of the season given all of what he when through in recent years and where his priority may be.

If it was just Price requesting a trade, i may agree with you. In this case, trading price would signal a rebuild IMO. In this optic, the habs woudl be able to trade its assets and retain on some of them (or trade in return for bad contracts) because this would free up some cap. I dont think Mtl can afford to lose Weber and Price for nothing without it meaning that the rebuild takes 5 years or more.

 

[Shane Diesel]

i find it odd how those weak hab players could have the ability to take out the vegas golden knights . you know that same vegas team that eliminated your amazing avalanche. it'll be interesting to see how colorado expects to get by vegas this year once eichel gets up to speed . maybe the defense this year will be up to the task

And where are those mighty Habs now?

 

[McJedi]

i find it odd how those weak hab players could have the ability to take out the vegas golden knights . you know that same vegas team that eliminated your amazing avalanche. it'll be interesting to see how colorado expects to get by vegas this year once eichel gets up to speed . maybe the defense this year will be up to the task

The Habs are the worst NHL team right now. Arizona is purposely tanking so they have an excuse. The Habs are against the cap with a vet heavy lineup wanting to win.

The NHL isn’t going to make up silly rules to get a 12th seed into the playoffs or make up new divisions that also cake walk them into the post season. the league also doesn't suspend their rule book in the regular season so Weber and Co can’t skate around cross checking their opponents into the boards with impunity..

so as of today, it’s a bad bad roster, trying to win and still looking like the 2nd OA pick team it is.

you’ll trade Chiarot for something in the next few weeks and that’s probably the extent of the interesting deals your GM makes before the off-season.

no one is trading the Habs anything interesting for Hoffman, Drouin, Gallagher, Petry, Price or the like. They’ll all continue to ride on the Habs ship for a good long while.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

i find it odd how those weak hab players could have the ability to take out the vegas golden knights . you know that same vegas team that eliminated your amazing avalanche. it'll be interesting to see how colorado expects to get by vegas this year once eichel gets up to speed . maybe the defense this year will be up to the task

There's a long history of people/teams that were huge underdogs still managing to win. Douglas beat Tyson. Columbus swept Tampa. Montreal beat Vegas. The impossible happening is one of the things that makes sports great. But, being able to pull off a huge upset doesn't magically mean that A) you'd ever be able to do it again or B) you were inaccurately/unfairly judged to be the huge underdog in the first place.

Plus, the Avs scored a total of 5 goals in the first 3 losses to Vegas, so I'm still not sure where the idea that it was solely a defensive problem came from. Vegas is a really good team, at both sides of the ice, and made life extremely difficult for the Avs in that series. Just like they have basically every other time we've ever played them and will continue to do in every game in the foreseeable future. So, you're right, they will be difficult to beat. Which is why keeping our good prospects and putting the best possible team on the ice is a much smarter choice than giving up significant assets for the most expensive and risky option in net that may, if we're lucky, give us a slightly better chance at actually winning the Cup.

 

[Boondock]

No, they mentioned it during the playoffs more than once. Up until some point in the final, he was on a run of something like 27-1, when getting 3 goals support from his skaters.

For the overwhelming majority of his career, he’s played for mediocre to decent, at best, teams in front of him.

I mentioned the same stat in another thread, and another poster at least did mention that although it may not have been exactly 27-1 (I mentioned in original post it was something along those lines), but indeed it was something obscure like that, which was brought up more than one broadcast during the last playoff run.

Considering the average goals against in the NHL over the past 5 years has been below 3, doesn't it make sense that most goalies will have a very good record when their team scores 3 or more goals? This seems like one of those stats that sounds really impressive until you look into it a little more.

 

[EquivalentStay]

i find it odd how those weak hab players could have the ability to take out the vegas golden knights . you know that same vegas team that eliminated your amazing avalanche. it'll be interesting to see how colorado expects to get by vegas this year once eichel gets up to speed . maybe the defense this year will be up to the task

So you think the Habs are better than the Avalanche huh? That's some opinion you got there, pal.

 

[Kosseca]

Why would Price throw away 40 million dollars when he’s still capable of playing. The Canadiens signed him to that deal and will have to honor it. It’s always a fans bases dream to make a bad contract disappear but at least when Price is playing he’s worth his money.

Man, this is the kind of post that just detail things:
1. Good for you to think that he capable of playing. Not sure on what basis you can state that given that he's still on LTIR right now. Half of this board is actually arguing that he's done and has no value so... I'm confused by that statement. In reality, until he does return and until he shows that he can still be a no1 G, his fitness to play this year and beyond is questionable. Any GM right now would be foolish to trade for him until they know for sure he can return to a decent level of play. Price has some serious millage on his body, several serious injury and other personal issues.... If he was to retire, nobody would be surprised.
2. Nobody is suggesting that we need to not "honor" that contract. the suggestion here is that the most realistic option for Price to finish his career in another team and get a chance for the cup is the termination of his contract. MTL can't retain, his contract is untradeable so if Price is fit to play, and wants a cup, he's got to make a choice : money or cup.

 

[Kosseca]

If it was just Price requesting a trade, i may agree with you. In this case, trading price would signal a rebuild IMO. In this optic, the habs woudl be able to trade its assets and retain on some of them (or trade in return for bad contracts) because this would free up some cap. I dont think Mtl can afford to lose Weber and Price for nothing without it meaning that the rebuild takes 5 years or more.

Addition by subtraction - you don't get hockey asset, but cap space. His contract is impossible to deal - just too big of a cap hit, and retaining is cap suicide for MTL. It does suck that MTL wont get some asset but that is all on Marc Bergevin bad contract negotiation. This is when the decision to never get something in return was made (indirectly).

 

[LeafGrief]

Hard to see it happening unless the Habs are willing to take a pittance. Even at 50%, Price is not a cheap option in net. I agree with my Habs brethren who say that he can still win series and might take a team to the finals. But at 34 years old, he's not a spring chicken and there is quite a lot of risk that the acquiring team will have to pay to get rid of him in the future. Worthwhile if you win a cup of course, but I think the list of teams willing to go all-in on a 34 year old Carey Price like that is going to be quite short. Teams don't want to pay a fortune for the privilege of putting an end-date on their contending window unless they're already desperate. One or two might bite, but that won't help the cost.

Adding a 3rd team for additional retention is pretty much impossible. The sheer cost of it will be either way too rich for the acquiring team's blood, or dilute the value going to the Habs far too much. And then of course there's just the cost up front. Someone mentioned that teams would sign Price today for 5.25m and give him some term, but that doesn't come with the 1st+prospects that the Habs are going to want. An acquiring team isn't going to want to pay for Price AND extra retention, and the Habs aren't going to trade Price if 75% of the value goes to the middleman.

I believe that Carey Price the goalie is still good enough to win. But I only think a trade happens if the Habs decide they want him gone and are willing to take a surprisingly small return to do it. There just won't be enough suitors who are willing to pay the admission fee and then worry about the years left on the deal.

 

[koyvoo]

Considering the average goals against in the NHL over the past 5 years has been below 3, doesn't it make sense that most goalies will have a very good record when their team scores 3 or more goals? This seems like one of those stats that sounds really impressive until you look into it a little more.

Well, look into deeper still and tell me the run the best goalies went on in a similary vain. I’m expecting a goalie to have a very positive record getting 3 goals support every game, but 27-1 is a bit beyond that still.

Vaz lost this playoff with over 3 goals support. Twice. Hellebuyck, once. With Price it was once since 2011.

 

[The Management]

Not an easy contract to trade, not an easy contract to retain on either.

Price is a world-class athlete, but I think any team is going to want to see if he can return to form first. Is that something Montreal is going to be fine with, even if he plays them up the standings and reduces their odds at the draft lottery?

Love Price, and think Montreal is doing the right thing by embracing the rebuild, but I think they're in a tough spot with this contract. If they can find the right dance partner and recoup the cap space, that alone may be a net positive in the long run.

 

[glenbuis]

And where are those mighty Habs now?

injuries could derail any team in the league . it seems to have put the islanders on the bottom as well . no team can suffer so many injuries and stay competitive

 

[glenbuis]

The Habs are the worst NHL team right now. Arizona is purposely tanking so they have an excuse. The Habs are against the cap with a vet heavy lineup wanting to win.

The NHL isn’t going to make up silly rules to get a 12th seed into the playoffs or make up new divisions that also cake walk them into the post season. the league also doesn't suspend their rule book in the regular season so Weber and Co can’t skate around cross checking their opponents into the boards with impunity..

so as of today, it’s a bad bad roster, trying to win and still looking like the 2nd OA pick team it is.

you’ll trade Chiarot for something in the next few weeks and that’s probably the extent of the interesting deals your GM makes before the off-season.

no one is trading the Habs anything interesting for Hoffman, Drouin, Gallagher, Petry, Price or the like. They’ll all continue to ride on the Habs ship for a good long while.

that is your opinion . forgive us in the peanut gallery if we do not take it as gospel

 

[glenbuis]

There's a long history of people/teams that were huge underdogs still managing to win. Douglas beat Tyson. Columbus swept Tampa. Montreal beat Vegas. The impossible happening is one of the things that makes sports great. But, being able to pull off a huge upset doesn't magically mean that A) you'd ever be able to do it again or B) you were inaccurately/unfairly judged to be the huge underdog in the first place.

Plus, the Avs scored a total of 5 goals in the first 3 losses to Vegas, so I'm still not sure where the idea that it was solely a defensive problem came from. Vegas is a really good team, at both sides of the ice, and made life extremely difficult for the Avs in that series. Just like they have basically every other time we've ever played them and will continue to do in every game in the foreseeable future. So, you're right, they will be difficult to beat. Which is why keeping our good prospects and putting the best possible team on the ice is a much smarter choice than giving up significant assets for the most expensive and risky option in net that may, if we're lucky, give us a slightly better chance at actually winning the Cup.

fair enough

 

[Voight]

Edmonton would be upgrading Smith to Price, right?

If Montreal is eating 50% they will likely ask for a first round draft pick which could be in 2023 or 2024. Montreal wouldn't need it immediately which gives Edmonton some opportunity to move other picks for other assets.

Edmonton has a lot of forwards hitting RFA but Puljujärvi is the only one that's gonna maybe cost them. Does Edmonton want out of the Ceci deal? Cap dumping him to Montreal would free up some space to add Price no problem but would also cost the Oilers more in the return. Maybe Edmonton asks for Kulak in the deal as well to get a UFA defenceman with some versatility.

So you got Price at 50% retained and Kulak
Going back is Smith, Ceci and a package involving picks and prospects that Montreal wants for the return. Lavoie for sure, Broberg or Bourgault in the Montreal package plus a first in 2023.

So Edmonton loses a bunch of their prospect depth but also frees up the Ceci contract, Smith next season, gets Kulak as a rental, and gets Price at an affordable price for the next couple years of playoff runs.

Montreal eats $5M a year but can afford it in a long term rebuild with Weber on LTIR. Ceci can be traded or can just help the Canadiens suck as they eventually move Petry as well and run Ceci and Savard on the right side blowing games for them. But they'd have a couple French Canadian prospects in the bag and a first round pick down the road to look forward to. Smith probably gets moved in the summer as a backup to a contender who can afford him being hurt.

None of this happens until Price returns and shows he can still play, but that's the only way I see this working. Montreal giving up a lot, eating some contracts in return, and Edmonton dumping a bunch of A/B prospects and a later first. Of course this being Hockey's Future I'm sure the idea of losing any prospects for Price is considered heresy but that's how I see this going.

Montreal retaining is to help them get a trade done. Not sure if a team would be willing to give up a 1st given Prices age even if you're getting him at 5.25 - if he doesn't play well theres still a lot of term on his deal. Not saying they would move him for peanuts but it will be a lot easier to tank not having him in net.

 

[McJedi]

that is your opinion . forgive us in the peanut gallery if we do not take it as gospel

It is. Just like Avs fans have to read really stupid hot takes about why we need Price and how goalie play was THE reason why they haven’t won a cup recently when it was injuries and a very good/heavy Vegas (tied Avs in regular season points and was technically the #2 seed in the entire NHL) forecheck that cost them their last two shots at a cup.

Price vs Grubs would have been the same result. Round 2 exit. That Price contract is atrocious. That isn’t an opinion. His value at his AAV is deeply negative.

there are far better shorter term options like MAF or someone from Dallas if the Avs need a backup assuming theirs can’t get or stay healthy.

Avs made their play on Kuemper already. He’s their 1G.