Value of: Carey Price 50% retained to your team

[vokiel]

I have a question about this: Is salary retention actual salary retention or just the cap hit? Or can a team pay him the whole contract but only the cap hit is split? I mean, technically, the cap hit is all that matters.

It's both the salary and the cap hit. A team can retain a maximum of 50% of a contract for the rest of the traded contract's duration.

There are also maximums per team iirc.

 

[Habs Halifax]

When I've been saying the same things for years, I'm not sure where you think you hear back peddling. The reason you've heard it all before is because nothing has changed since I first made these arguments and the only thing that you seem to have to counter them is excuses and irrelevant "context".

And, it's great that you have blind faith in Price's ability. And, I will definitely question why your faith in the unprovable matters anywhere near as much as fact based evidence that we can all look at, thank you very much.

I also agree with your valuation for Price at 50%. But, something not being unreasonable doesn't mean that it's not a bad idea. I can make a lot of reasonable arguments for banning dihydrogen monoxide, but doing it would probably kill us all.

I have the same faith in Price's ability (when healthy) as team Canada does. As far as the long term (4+ years from 34-38), there are questions to ponder about yes. But if there wasn't any, my asking price would be higher.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I have a question about this: Is salary retention actual salary retention or just the cap hit? Or can a team pay him the whole contract but only the cap hit is split? I mean, technically, the cap hit is all that matters.

Prices AAV and Salary structure if traded with 50% retention (See Below): 50% retention is applied to both cap hit and salary equally. As well as signing bonus money. But for this current season, the signing bonus money was already paid. If Price is traded this summer, the $6.75M payment could be paid by the Habs and then he is traded after that. Then the remaining money to be paid after 50% retention is like $12.25M spread over 4 seasons.

Age 34 (this season if traded at the deadline):
* $11M signing bonus already paid by the Habs last July
* $2M base salary prorated would be about $500k
* 50% retention ($5.25M) prorated would be about $1M Cap Hit for his new team

Age 35:
* $3.375M signing bonus to be paid summer of 22 (both the Habs and his new team)
* $500k base salary for the rest of that season (both the Habs and his new team)
* 50% retention ($5.25M) Cap Hit for both team (both the Habs and his new team)

Age 36:
* $3.25M signing bonus to be paid summer of 23 (both the Habs and his new team)
* $1M base salary for the rest of that season (both the Habs and his new team)
* 50% retention ($5.25M) Cap Hit (both the Habs and his new team)

Age 37 & 38:
* $2.75M signing bonus to be paid summer of 24 and 25 (both the Habs and his new team)
* $1M base salary for the rest of that season (both the Habs and his new team)
* 50% retention ($5.25M) Cap Hit (both the Habs and his new team)

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

I have the same faith in Price's ability (when healthy) as team Canada does. As far as the long term (4+ years from 34-38), there are questions to ponder about yes. But if there wasn't any, my asking price would be higher.

So, you want to make sure he's healthy before committing to him, just like Team Canada? Or are they just trying to devalue him by wanting evidence?

 

[Habs Halifax]

So, you want to make sure he's healthy before committing to him, just like Team Canada? Or are they just trying to devalue him by wanting evidence?

Yes, I have said 100 times Price has to get healthy first.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Yes, I have said 100 times Price has to get healthy first.

And when exactly will that happen? Are we imagining again?

 

[Habs Halifax]

And when exactly will that happen? Are we imagining again?

Before he is possibly traded or plays for Canada if they go to the Olympics. It's not complicated and I know you get it but your in belittle mode

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Before he is possibly traded or plays for Canada if they go to the Olympics. It's not complicated and I know you get it but your in belittle mode

Asking for a specific time frame for when this hypothetical trade might go down also isn't complicated, yet you can't even provide a straight answer. I apparently need to pick the right time from some point over the next 4 years when he potentially gets traded, assuming he possibly plays for Team Canada this year, which isn't guaranteed because he's not healthy right now, and then I can pretend to know what he might say to the press, and pretend it's going to be anything other than the meaningless drivel that hockey players say in front of cameras, and you want me to tell you whether I'd believe what imaginary Price might say? And that explains how MacKinnon relates to it?

 

[ole ole]

Or, it's because his talent level is superior IF he's healthy (notice that Team Canada is waiting until they know for sure?), AND they don't have to deal with any of the things that make him risky to acquire at the NHL level. You know, like I actually said. But, why argue in good faith when you can build strawmen, right?

How can his talent level be superior when you claimed he sucked for the last 4 seasons?
Which is it?

 

[ole ole]

You pretend that you have not tried to use Price's regular season stats in attempts to devalue him into a meh goalie at this stage of his career. We bring up the Team Canada will have him in net if healthy and then you spin it and talk about other things like his contract is too risky to acquire at the NHL level. You're an expert at moving goal posts in attempts to save grace on previous flawed posting. Quite a vicious circle this is

Lets refocus:
* Price at full cap hit is almost impossible to move. I think we all agree on that.
* Price took the Habs on a run to the cup finals at age 33 (coming off an injury too ). I don't remember who said what but I'm pretty sure you were on the bandwagon that said... "The only reason why you are in the finals is because of Price".
* Price's regular season stats are meh and you compare his regular season stats to other goalies in attempts to say he is not that good at this stage of his career. We bring up Grubauer's stats with the Avs on a contender vs his stats on Seattle and you completely ignore it and call it a rant. This coming after last year, you were pumping up Grubauer as your guy in net who is just as good or better than Price and you used his "regular season" stats.

Price at 50% retention is a game changer. His value is way more than what you and others are trying to say it is. He's worth every penny of a $5.25M cap hit when healthy.

You nailed it.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

How can his talent level be superior when you claimed he sucked for the last 4 seasons?
Which is it?

Because those two statements are in no way mutually exclusive. One is potential, the other is practical application. Price has the talent to be one of the best goalies in the league, but despite having that talent, he also hasn't been able to outperform Devan Dubnyk over the last 4 regular seasons, so there's serious questions about how he's putting his talent to use.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

Neutral fan.

Too many negatives, even @50% to net anything of substance.

Age
+ declining reg. season stats
+ injury history
+ cap hit /salary ($5m+) (on mid 30's G...Oooofff !!)
& 4y Term (on mid 30's G...also Ooooff !!)
+ "substance abuse/alcohol/mental state"
+ new team likely having to move pieces (i.e. sell low, if not dump other players for pennies on the $)
+ cost of acquisition?

= Mtl. paying/adding to dump contract.

Very few teams Could+would+should risk all that, for a very small% that things maybe break in their favor (potential deep playoff run).

Not worth the gamble. Risk vs. Reward Ratio is Way Out of Whack.

This was a Bad contract before the ink was dry. I said it then & I stand by that statement & look at that, here we are (no surprise, rolls eyes).

It's Whacked.

I do hope for Price's sake he can heal (physically & mentally) & I do hope he gets another shot at a Cup somewhere. I just don't see ANY team paying, if anything, I see: Mtl. paying Price @50% + '22/'23 1st (1OA protected) + decent (not BlueChip) prospect for a 3rd & small/short term cap dump& then a team May bite.

 

[ole ole]

Neutral fan.

Too many negatives, even @50% to net anything of substance.

Age
+ declining reg. season stats
+ injury history
+ cap hit /salary ($5m+) (on mid 30's G...Oooofff !!)
& 4y Term (on mid 30's G...also OUCH!!)
+ "substance abuse/alcohol/mental state"
+ new team likely having to move pieces (i.e. sell low, if not dump other players for pennies on the $)
+ cost of acquisition?

= Mtl. paying/adding to dump contract.

Very few teams Could+would+should risk all that, for a very small% that things maybe break in their favor (potential deep playoff run).

Not worth the gamble. Risk vs. Reward Ratio is Way Out of Whack.

This was a Bad contract before the ink was dry. I said it then & I stand by that statement & look at that, here we are (no surprise, rolls eyes).

It's Whacked.

I do hope for Price's sake he can heal (physically & mentally) & I do hope he gets another shot at a Cup somewhere. I just don't see ANY team paying, if anything, I see: Mtl. paying Price @50% + '22/'23 1st (1OA protected) + decent (not BlueChip) prospect for a 3rd & small/short term cap dump& then a team May bite.

Oh God no. Be serious. That's not near enough. We would have to eat 50 % of his cap and than throw in our 1st[unprotected] and 3rd and add at least caufield and Suzuki while taking back at least 2 cap dumps for a starting point to get some teams interested.

 

[Omar]

Nobody wants the contract. Let’s not be disingenuous. If Price had a 5-6 million cap hit there would absolutely be a market

Sorry I didn’t realize salary retention was not allowed any longer

 

[JoemAvs]

Nobody is giving up the kind of return the Habs would require to retain 50 % of Prices ugly contract over the next 4 years.

Price is going to be a Hab till he retires or atleast go on longterm LTIR till his contract is up.

 

[BLNY]

Montreal isn't retaining half the contract.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Montreal isn't retaining half the contract.

Easier said that done. If the Habs decide to rebuild, Price will want out. Then you got to see how many teams he waives his NMC for. Then you got to see if those teams are interested. Then you got to work out how to make it work for their cap structure.

So yeah, if the Habs move Price, they will have to consider substantial retention. No doubt about it, it would be a historic move to retain that much and for that long. However, if the Habs want to trade Price and get fair value back, we have to consider substantial retention. What you worried about? We had $8M - $10M of unused cap space for 2+ years when we were a bubble team and let Markov and Radulov walk.

What's your plan? Don't retain or if we retain, retail little? Then what do you do if there are no takers? Keep a disgruntled Price during rebuild years which is a distraction? Explain your reasoning?

 

[Habs Halifax]

Nobody is giving up the kind of return the Habs would require to retain 50 % of Prices ugly contract over the next 4 years.

Price is going to be a Hab till he retires or atleast go on longterm LTIR till his contract is up.

Price's contract is not ugly after 50% retention. Far from it and we will get phone calls about it. What would be the return? It's not a bag of pucks like you think it is. A late 1st, Grade A, and Grade B not turned pro yet is not an unreasonable ask if the Habs retain 50% and also take back a 1/2 cap dump. But you can continue on thinking he not worth much even after 50% retention.

If the Habs rebuild, Price will want out. Reality

What's interesting to me is how many Avs fans are commenting about this. You probably would value Price at 50% retention very much but won't admit it cause then you got to pay to get. Personally, I rather see Price in a Oilers jersey and they can knock out the Avs in the playoffs on their way to cup.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Nobody is giving up the kind of return the Habs would require to retain 50 % of Prices ugly contract over the next 4 years.

Price is going to be a Hab till he retires or atleast go on longterm LTIR till his contract is up.

If Price returns healthy and plays decently well for a full season or two, there could plausibly be a market for him with ~2 years left on his contract. At that point, the retention wouldn't be quite as ugly, which should bring the cost down, and he'd have addressed the issues around his inconsistent regular season play. Plus, it would only be ~2 years of hoping his age/injuries don't catch up to him, instead of 4+ at this point. They still wouldn't get much in return, because goalies simply don't have significant value, but there is at least a path to being able to move him.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Neutral fan.

Too many negatives, even @50% to net anything of substance.

Age
+ declining reg. season stats
+ injury history
+ cap hit /salary ($5m+) (on mid 30's G...Oooofff !!)
& 4y Term (on mid 30's G...also Ooooff !!)
+ "substance abuse/alcohol/mental state"
+ new team likely having to move pieces (i.e. sell low, if not dump other players for pennies on the $)
+ cost of acquisition?

= Mtl. paying/adding to dump contract.

Very few teams Could+would+should risk all that, for a very small% that things maybe break in their favor (potential deep playoff run).

Not worth the gamble. Risk vs. Reward Ratio is Way Out of Whack.

This was a Bad contract before the ink was dry. I said it then & I stand by that statement & look at that, here we are (no surprise, rolls eyes).

It's Whacked.

I do hope for Price's sake he can heal (physically & mentally) & I do hope he gets another shot at a Cup somewhere. I just don't see ANY team paying, if anything, I see: Mtl. paying Price @50% + '22/'23 1st (1OA protected) + decent (not BlueChip) prospect for a 3rd & small/short term cap dump& then a team May bite.

You bookmark my posts and I'll bookmark this one. Lets see how this ages

You think the Habs are going to retain 50% and then add a 1st and prospect in order to move him? That's comical.

 

[JoemAvs]

Price's contract is not ugly after 50% retention. Far from it and we will get phone calls about it. What would be the return? It's not a bag of pucks like you think it is. A late 1st, Grade A, and Grade B not turned pro yet is not an unreasonable ask if the Habs retain 50% and also take back a 1/2 cap dump. But you can continue on thinking he not worth much even after 50% retention.

If the Habs rebuild, Price will want out. Reality

What's interesting to me is how many Avs fans are commenting about this. You probably would value Price at 50% retention very much but won't admit it cause then you got to pay to get. Personally, I rather see Price in a Oilers jersey and they can knock out the Avs in the playoffs on their way to cup.

The number of Avs fans commenting has more to do with Habs fans always trying to rope the Avs into any Price threads. I don't think any Avs fan is really interested in the player.

For me personally I want absolutely nothing to do with him. Not at 100% of his contract and not at 50 % of his contract. Because a 34 year old goalie with injury and off the field issues on a 4+ year deal even @5.25M is of no interest at all to me. Thats still really ugly and way too risky in a flat cap world to trade for. Let alone give up the type of return the Habs would want.

I also realize that Molson is not going to retain 20m+ on his "franchise goalie" over 4+ years without gaining significant assets in return. And I really don't think anyone is willing to give up that type of return for a 34 year old goalie with injury issues on a 4 year deal @ 5.25m. Least of all the Avs.

Thats why I think Price is basically untradeable.

IMO the only scenario would be in a Lucic- Eriksson type of bad contract swap but then again I can't see Molson and the Habs agreeing to that either considering his status in MTL.

@IWantSakicAsMyGM :

At that point Price will be 36+ years old and even with 2 years left @5.25m thats not appealing at all. Especially considering that you probably have to give the Habs a substantial return for retaining 10m on his contract. For the Avs I want absolutely nothing to do with Price and I think that most of the other teams will be in the same boat.
Maybe as a rental but odds are he will be quasi retired via LTIR by then anyways.

 

[Habs Halifax]

The number of Avs fans commenting has more to do with Habs fans always trying to rope the Avs into any Price threads. I don't think any Avs fan is really interested in the player.

For me personally I want absolutely nothing to do with him. Not at 100% of his contract and not at 50 % of his contract. Because a 34 year old goalie with injury and off the field issues on a 4+ year deal even @5.25M is of no interest at all to me.

But I also realize that Molson is not going to retain 20m+ on his "franchise goalie" over 4+ years without gaining significant assets in return. And I really don't think anyone is willing to give up that type of return for a 34 year old goalie with injury issues on a 4 year deal @ 5.25m. Least of all the Avs.

Thats why I think Price is basically untradeable.

IMO the only scenario would be in a Lucic- Eriksson type of bad contract swap but then again I can't see Molson and the Habs agreeing to that either.

@IWantSakicAsMyGM :

At that point Price will be 36+ years old and even with 2 years left @5.25m thats not appealing at all. Especially considering that you probably have to give the Habs a substantial return for retaining 10m on his contract. For the Avs I want absolutely nothing to do with Price and I think that most of the other teams will be in the same boat.
Maybe as a rental but odds are he will be quasi retired via LTIR by then anyways.

So what is this? Revenge for Habs proposing Price to the Avs in past threads? Appears so cause if you are not interested, why would you and many others be obsessive with continuing the Price talk? To be a black cloud following him around on his value? Sorry man, it don't add up

First step is to figure out if the Habs are rebuilding. Then after that, we find out if Price wants out. If he wants out, Molson and management are going to have to consider substantial retention. If not, good luck moving a AAV that high in this flat cap. Without retention, it's almost impossible. I agree on that part

 

[Holymakinaw]

What's your best offer?

Nothing.

The Slabs are stuck with his contract for five more years!

 

[JoemAvs]

So what is this? Revenge for Habs proposing Price to the Avs in past threads? Appears so cause if you are not interested, why would you and many others be obsessive with continuing the Price talk? To be a black cloud following him around on his value? Sorry man, it don't add up

I am bored and giving you my opinion considering that you might have had a team like the Avs in mind with your posts (like usually the Habs fans on here do).

Why would I want revenge over people posting silly stuff on a message board?. This wasn't even really written from an Avs fan POV and more from a general NHL fan / somewhat neutral NHL tradeboard poster POV. If it had been, I would have gone deeper into our cap situation and age structure and why Price due to that is a completely ridiculous idea.

I was just commenting on the fact that I think Price right now is almost completely untradeable (and that I think he will retire as a Hab due to that) and that your ideas did not make much sense. I think that was my first post in this thread so I don't see how I am obsessive.

 

[Bouboumaster]

The only playoff team that shouldn't consider Price at 50% is Tampa Bay.
That's it.

Unless your goal is to not win the Stanley Cup?