Value of: Carey Price 50% retained to your team

[Kosseca]

no team is going to trade for Price until he comes back and shows he can still play. until then he is a liability both for performance and contract

THIS!

Can we now close this tread?

 

[ole ole]

And you think that potentially being picked for an international tournament somehow means that his 0.901 SV% in the NHL regular season (52nd best among goalies with 5+ games played) last year was good? Or are you just continuing to throw shit at the wall in the hopes that something finally sticks?

So why did the guys in charge decide to run with him as their started? Aw but you know better. Maybe teams should be looking for your number since some are in need of a solid GM and you seem to know more than out top guys.

 

[ole ole]

no team is going to trade for Price until he comes back and shows he can still play. until then he is a liability both for performance and contract

That i agree but to claimed he has sucked for the last 4 season . For some the hatred runs deep.

 

[ole ole]

And you think that potentially being picked for an international tournament somehow means that his 0.901 SV% in the NHL regular season (52nd best among goalies with 5+ games played) last year was good? Or are you just continuing to throw shit at the wall in the hopes that something finally sticks?

What's next? You going to try to convince us that Philipp Grubauer was the 2nd best goalie in the league last season.

 

[smack66]

That i agree but to claimed he has sucked for the last 4 season . For some the hatred runs deep.

I never.claimed that he sucked. not sure why you are quoting my post and adding that statement.

 

[vokiel]

Value of Price with 50% retained at the moment is around 20-23 million USD? That's money going straight from Molson's coffers to some other team.

It won't happen.

 

[Peter Peckerwood]

Ok, can we just move on from any Price/Avs talk? We agree to disagree!

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

So why did the guys in charge decide to run with him as their started? Aw but you know better. Maybe teams should be looking for your number since some are in need of a solid GM and you seem to know more than out top guys.

So, you're just going to keep throwing shit at the wall. Got it.

 

[ole ole]

So, you're just going to keep throwing shit at the wall. Got it.

Oh i get it. The only reason that Team Canada's management want Price as their starter is because,
1st-short tourny
2nd,Don'd have to give up any assets
And here i thought they try to get the best players available.
And you bring up throwing shit at a wall and hoping it sticks.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Oh i get it. The only reason that Team Canada's management want Price as their starter is because,
1st-short tourny
2nd,Don'd have to give up any assets
And here i thought they try to get the best players available.
And you bring up throwing shit at a wall and hoping it sticks.

Or, it's because his talent level is superior IF he's healthy (notice that Team Canada is waiting until they know for sure?), AND they don't have to deal with any of the things that make him risky to acquire at the NHL level. You know, like I actually said. But, why argue in good faith when you can build strawmen, right?

 

[Habs Halifax]

Value of Price with 50% retained at the moment is around 20-23 million USD? That's money going straight from Molson's coffers to some other team.

It won't happen.

Molson quote... "I'm not afraid of anything" when asked about a rebuild.

 

[Boondock]

Molson quote... "I'm not afraid of anything" when asked about a rebuild.

Can I have "Quotes out of Context" for $400 please Alex.....

 

[Habs Halifax]

Or, it's because his talent level is superior IF he's healthy (notice that Team Canada is waiting until they know for sure?), AND they don't have to deal with any of the things that make him risky to acquire at the NHL level. You know, like I actually said. But, why argue in good faith when you can build strawmen, right?

You pretend that you have not tried to use Price's regular season stats in attempts to devalue him into a meh goalie at this stage of his career. We bring up the Team Canada will have him in net if healthy and then you spin it and talk about other things like his contract is too risky to acquire at the NHL level. You're an expert at moving goal posts in attempts to save grace on previous flawed posting. Quite a vicious circle this is

Lets refocus:
* Price at full cap hit is almost impossible to move. I think we all agree on that.
* Price took the Habs on a run to the cup finals at age 33 (coming off an injury too ). I don't remember who said what but I'm pretty sure you were on the bandwagon that said... "The only reason why you are in the finals is because of Price".
* Price's regular season stats are meh and you compare his regular season stats to other goalies in attempts to say he is not that good at this stage of his career. We bring up Grubauer's stats with the Avs on a contender vs his stats on Seattle and you completely ignore it and call it a rant. This coming after last year, you were pumping up Grubauer as your guy in net who is just as good or better than Price and you used his "regular season" stats.

Price at 50% retention is a game changer. His value is way more than what you and others are trying to say it is. He's worth every penny of a $5.25M cap hit when healthy.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Can I have "Quotes out of Context" for $400 please Alex.....

Not out of context. Molson saying he is not afraid of anything is good context. Would he retain up to 50% during a rebuild? We don't know for sure but he did say he is not afraid of anything when asked about the rebuild strategy. This means to me he is open to multiple possibilities and he will allow Gorton and the new GM to present him their plans.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Value of Price with 50% retained at the moment is around 20-23 million USD? That's money going straight from Molson's coffers to some other team.

It won't happen.

I have a question about this: Is salary retention actual salary retention or just the cap hit? Or can a team pay him the whole contract but only the cap hit is split? I mean, technically, the cap hit is all that matters.

 

[AslanRH]

I have a question about this: Is salary retention actual salary retention or just the cap hit? Or can a team pay him the whole contract but only the cap hit is split? I mean, technically, the cap hit is all that matters.

It is both

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

You pretend that you have not tried to use Price's regular season stats in attempts to devalue him into a meh goalie at this stage of his career. We bring up the Team Canada will have him in net if healthy and then you spin it and talk about other things like his contract is too risky to acquire at the NHL level. You're an expert at moving goal posts in attempts to save grace on previous flawed posting. Quite a vicious circle this is

Lets refocus:
* Price at full cap hit is almost impossible to move. I think we all agree on that.
* Price took the Habs on a run to the cup finals at age 33 (coming off an injury too ). I don't remember who said what but I'm pretty sure you were on the bandwagon that said... "The only reason why you are in the finals is because of Price".
* Price's regular season stats are meh and you compare his regular season stats to other goalies in attempts to say he is not that good at this stage of his career. We bring up Grubauer's stats with the Avs on a contender vs his stats on Seattle and you completely ignore it and call it a rant. This coming after last year, you were pumping up Grubauer as your guy in net who is just as good or better than Price and you used his "regular season" stats.

Price at 50% retention is a game changer. His value is way more than what you and others are trying to say it is. He's worth every penny of a $5.25M cap hit when healthy.

Again, I'm not attempting to devalue him, because I have absolutely no interest in acquiring him. Your sale pitch has just been laughably bad and easy to poke holes in.

Yes, Price at full cap hit is impossible to move. Even at 50%, it's rough, all things considered.

Yes, Price took the Habs on a run to the Cup finals while being injured. Then he had knee surgery and entered treatment for substance abuse and hasn't played since. I think we can agree that this is a concern.

No, I was actually on the "the Habs don't even deserve to be in the playoffs, but it's nice that the league gave them a chance anyway with these special covid rules." bandwagon. That was, of course, tempered with a sense of impending doom, since I also knew it would lead to threads like this. And, the reality is that the Habs had a lot of things go right, it wasn't only because of Price. I'd also love to understand how some people saying something that turned out to be wrong magically proves that your claim is somehow correct, if you could please explain that.

Yes, Price's regular season stats are meh. Pointing this out and asking for an explanation isn't trying to devalue Price. Rejecting your irrelevant counter points as an answer also isn't trying to devalue Price. The Avs are a Cup favorite, Seattle is an expansion team purposefully trying to tank. How does that apply to Price being unable to outperform a mediocre goalie on teams that are comparable to Montreal? Is Montreal so much worse than Minnesota that it's even remotely the same difference in team quality?

I also never pumped Grubauer as my guy in net. I said we already had him in net and didn't see any reason to give up a massive haul for Price, or any other upgrade being hyped on HF, which is pretty much my same stance with Keumper. There's no reason to believe any goalie would guarantee us a Cup, so why pay the cost of acquisition to give him the chance instead of Grubauer/Keumper/whoever? We'd still need a ton of things to go right, and for everyone to stay healthy. We'd still need game tying goals to not get called back on a phantom offside call. And we'd still need our offense to show up in every game, and not get held to 5 goals over 3 games.

And, yes, Price, when healthy and on his game, can be a game changer. And, yes, at $5.25m, he's worth every penny of that cap hit. But, he doesn't just cost that cap hit. He also costs (at least) a 1st + A + B prospect in a trade. So just being worth the cap hit isn't good enough, he also needs to be good enough to justify the return, which is problematic when guys with Cups can be had for significantly less. As I keep asking, why pay for Price when I might be able to get Quick for just a 2nd round pick?

 

[Stewie Griffin]

Price won't be moved until he comes back and plays for a while. Even then, he has to prove he's worth even a 5M caphit (goalies performances vary every year, just look at Bobrovsky) for the duration of the contract. The goalie trade market is also hard to gauge. Fleury, an older goalie like Price, literally won the Vezina and was traded for free to Chicago, while having shorter term on his contract.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Again, I'm not attempting to devalue him, because I have absolutely no interest in acquiring him. Your sale pitch has just been laughably bad and easy to poke holes in.

Yes, Price at full cap hit is impossible to move. Even at 50%, it's rough, all things considered.

Yes, Price took the Habs on a run to the Cup finals while being injured. Then he had knee surgery and entered treatment for substance abuse and hasn't played since. I think we can agree that this is a concern.

No, I was actually on the "the Habs don't even deserve to be in the playoffs, but it's nice that the league gave them a chance anyway with these special covid rules." bandwagon. That was, of course, tempered with a sense of impending doom, since I also knew it would lead to threads like this. And, the reality is that the Habs had a lot of things go right, it wasn't only because of Price. I'd also love to understand how some people saying something that turned out to be wrong magically proves that your claim is somehow correct, if you could please explain that.

Yes, Price's regular season stats are meh. Pointing this out and asking for an explanation isn't trying to devalue Price. Rejecting your irrelevant counter points as an answer also isn't trying to devalue Price. The Avs are a Cup favorite, Seattle is an expansion team purposefully trying to tank. How does that apply to Price being unable to outperform a mediocre goalie on teams that are comparable to Montreal? Is Montreal so much worse than Minnesota that it's even remotely the same difference in team quality?

I also never pumped Grubauer as my guy in net. I said we already had him in net and didn't see any reason to give up a massive haul for Price, or any other upgrade being hyped on HF, which is pretty much my same stance with Keumper. There's no reason to believe any goalie would guarantee us a Cup, so why pay the cost of acquisition to give him the chance instead of Grubauer/Keumper/whoever? We'd still need a ton of things to go right, and for everyone to stay healthy. We'd still need game tying goals to not get called back on a phantom offside call. And we'd still need our offense to show up in every game, and not get held to 5 goals over 3 games.

And, yes, Price, when healthy and on his game, can be a game changer. And, yes, at $5.25m, he's worth every penny of that cap hit. But, he doesn't just cost that cap hit. He also costs (at least) a 1st + A + B prospect in a trade. So just being worth the cap hit isn't good enough, he also needs to be good enough to justify the return, which is problematic when guys with Cups can be had for significantly less. As I keep asking, why pay for Price when I might be able to get Quick for just a 2nd round pick?

Sounds like more back peddling to me. Nothing I have not heard before.

Price's ability and value at 50% retention is not in question with me. You can question it if you wish. Comparing his regular season stats to any goalie does not reveal the true story on his true ability. Then there is the question on how long he can hold his ability from 34-38. I'm not outright dismissing it and if I was, the return price would be higher as well. So there is that too.

I don't think asking for a late 1st, Grade A and Grade B (not turned pro yet) for Price at 50% retention and taking back 1/2 cap dumps is an unreasonable ask.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I wonder if the Oilers and Habs have a platform of a deal they are considering... Then both the Habs and Oilers allow Price and McDavid to talk and Price tells him what he really thinks about his injury recovery and his confidence he can be the guy they need past this year and next year. Things like this are usually not talked about on HF boards but if I was the Oilers and McDavid, I would certainly value a discussion between McDavid and Price and what comes from that

 

[Boondock]

You pretend that you have not tried to use Price's regular season stats in attempts to devalue him into a meh goalie at this stage of his career. We bring up the Team Canada will have him in net if healthy and then you spin it and talk about other things like his contract is too risky to acquire at the NHL level. You're an expert at moving goal posts in attempts to save grace on previous flawed posting. Quite a vicious circle this is

Lets refocus:
* Price at full cap hit is almost impossible to move. I think we all agree on that.
* Price took the Habs on a run to the cup finals at age 33 (coming off an injury too ). I don't remember who said what but I'm pretty sure you were on the bandwagon that said... "The only reason why you are in the finals is because of Price".
* Price's regular season stats are meh and you compare his regular season stats to other goalies in attempts to say he is not that good at this stage of his career. We bring up Grubauer's stats with the Avs on a contender vs his stats on Seattle and you completely ignore it and call it a rant. This coming after last year, you were pumping up Grubauer as your guy in net who is just as good or better than Price and you used his "regular season" stats.

Price at 50% retention is a game changer. His value is way more than what you and others are trying to say it is. He's worth every penny of a $5.25M cap hit when healthy.

The bolded are the 2 biggest post moving arguments out there

 

[Habs Halifax]

The bolded are the 2 biggest post moving arguments out there

I rather say debates vs arguments but it does turn to counterproductive narratives at times. Price was injured last year and the Habs shut him down while they were trying to make the playoffs with Allen and we did. Then I believe Price pounded back the pain killer pills for the playoff run. Then he had a clean up type of surgery in the off season where it was expected he would be ready for the season but he was not. Then he goes on LTIR and it appears to me it was because he was on pain killer pills and got hooked on it. The reason why they are talking their time now is to allow him to recover properly. This rest he is getting and proper recovery will prolong his career IMO.

I just posed something about the Oilers and Habs agreeing to a trade platform idea but then allowing both Price and McDavid to talk. I would trust Price telling McDavid the truth on his confidence he can be the guy he needs the Oilers to be past this year and next. I would expect it if anybody trades for Price cause I don't think he will want to screw over the team he is getting traded to just to get out of Montreal. He's special Star and well respected. His word would be trusted more than others IMO.

 

[Boondock]

I rather say debates vs arguments but it does turn to counterproductive narratives at times. Price was injured last year and the Habs shut him down while they were trying to make the playoffs with Allen and we did. Then I believe Price pounded back the pain killer pills for the playoff run. Then he had a clean up type of surgery in the off season where it was expected he would be ready for the season but he was not. Then he goes on LTIR and it appears to me it was because he was on pain killer pills and got hooked on it. The reason why they are talking their time now is to allow him to recover properly. This rest he is getting and proper recovery will prolong his career IMO.

I just posed something about the Oilers and Habs agreeing to a trade platform idea but then allowing both Price and McDavid to talk. I would trust Price telling McDavid the truth on his confidence he can be the guy he needs the Oilers to be past this year and next. I would expect it if anybody trades for Price cause I don't think he will want to screw over the team he is getting traded to just to get out of Montreal. He's special Star and well respected. His word would be trusted more than others IMO.

I am reluctant to reply as I don't really want to get into this further, but come on man - you are speculating on a lot around the medical, as you have no clue about the personal issues, other than substance abuse. You have no idea of the recovery process other than seeing Price skate on TSN. You are making speculative medical judgments in order to prove your point. You then double down by proposing a heart to heart talk between two players that leads to a trade. Yet when posters state their concerns about Price stating actual facts like, not healthy (physical, mental, psychological, whatever) , aging, super high contract for multiple years. It's blind hatred and devaluing an asset.
**Note to self, if my argument (debate) includes two players going to 5 Guys, crushing a burger and shake, having a heart to heart about each others intentions - it may not be my strongest argument (debate) and I probably shouldn't high horse my opinion. **

 

[Habs Halifax]

I am reluctant to reply as I don't really want to get into this further, but come on man - you are speculating on a lot around the medical, as you have no clue about the personal issues, other than substance abuse. You have no idea of the recovery process other than seeing Price skate on TSN. You are making speculative medical judgments in order to prove your point. You then double down by proposing a heart to heart talk between two players that leads to a trade. Yet when posters state their concerns about Price stating actual facts like, not healthy (physical, mental, psychological, whatever) , aging, super high contract for multiple years. It's blind hatred and devaluing an asset.
**Note to self, if my argument (debate) includes two players going to 5 Guys, crushing a burger and shake, having a heart to heart about each others intentions - it may not be my strongest argument (debate) and I probably shouldn't high horse my opinion. **

It's chatter on HF boards which has a lot of speculation. I think I'm close to the truth on what I said. It's an opinion and if you connect the dots from what we do know, it not a big reach.

I'm not pretending them to be facts. So don't try to spin it like I am.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Sounds like more back peddling to me. Nothing I have not heard before.

Price's ability and value at 50% retention is not in question with me. You can question it if you wish. Comparing his regular season stats to any goalie does not reveal the true story on his true ability. Then there is the question on how long he can hold his ability from 34-38. I'm not outright dismissing it and if I was, the return price would be higher as well. So there is that too.

I don't think asking for a late 1st, Grade A and Grade B (not turned pro yet) for Price at 50% retention and taking back 1/2 cap dumps is an unreasonable ask.

When I've been saying the same things for years, I'm not sure where you think you hear back peddling. The reason you've heard it all before is because nothing has changed since I first made these arguments and the only thing that you seem to have to counter them is excuses and irrelevant "context".

And, it's great that you have blind faith in Price's ability. And, I will definitely question why your faith in the unprovable matters anywhere near as much as fact based evidence that we can all look at, thank you very much.

I also agree with your valuation for Price at 50%. But, something not being unreasonable doesn't mean that it's not a bad idea. I can make a lot of reasonable arguments for banning dihydrogen monoxide, but doing it would probably kill us all.