Confirmed Trade: [CAR/PIT] Jake Guentzel (25% retained), Ty Smith for Michael Bunting, Ville Koivunen, Vasili Ponomarev, Cruz Lucius, 2024 cond. 1st, 2024 cond. 5th

[BB88]

Asking for double and receiving a quarter is par for the course on HF.

I don't think we did that bad. The conditional first is the worst part imo.

I'm of a less popular opinion with regard to prospects on this board though. So many prospects get uber hyped every.single.year here (goes with the territory) that I understand an angle of 'quantity' in that regard. As put on the Pens board - you couldn't touch Poulin just a couple seasons ago and Jake was a nobody before he was Jake. So, just like the draft where studs go late (Jake and Letang both third rounders), sometimes it's best to land 2 B prospects versus 1 A prospect. Time will tell.

With regard to the Pens fans. This is the first time we've been sellers in two decades. Is what it is. And 90% of this board doesn't know prospects from their own anus - 99% of social media....so everything should be taken in context. What some wanted and what was being offered were always different things.

That’s a terrible return for the top price. Carolina just kept all their best assets

& it just feels great to see the return and all the walking back after listening to weeks how many teams didn’t have the assets to land Guentzel and how many experts we had here on what Pens were thinking

 

[molon labe]

Well, we got five pieces, if two of those five workout, not too bad. Just wish there was more info on those three prospects.

Cruz Lucius: [pulled from the college page]

2022-23 / Freshman Season
Appeared in 34 games… 11 goals and 23 assists… led the roster with 34 points… posted 96 shots… scored four power-play goals… shared team lead with two game winning goals…eight multipoint games including two four point nights… notched first career goal in first game of the season at No. 14 Ohio State on Oct. 7 (3-1 L)... recorded first multipoint game with a goal and an assist in 5-2 win at No. 10 Minnesota Duluth on Oct. 21… posted two goals and two assists in 5-1 win vs. Lindenwood on Nov. 19 … scored shorthanded in 3-1 loss to Clarkson on Dec. 29… had seven-game point streak totaling 12 points (2g, 10a) from 12/9-1/20… Tied UW record with four assists in a period against No. 20 Notre Dame on Jan. 7… scored game-tying goal with 22 seconds remaining in the first period in 3-1 win vs. No. 1 Minnesota on Feb. 11… Mark Johnson Rookie of the Year award recipient… Hobey Baker nominee

Before Lucius was a Badger
Skated with the U.S. National Team Development Program ... scored nine goals and 18 points during injury-shortened, 23-game season during 2021-22 ... helped Team USA win silver at the 2022 IIHF Under-18 World Championship with two goals and eight points in six games playing alongside Badger Charlie Stramel ... recorded 14 goals and 42 points in 42 contests with the U.S. Under-17 Team during the 2020-21 campaign

 

[Darren McCord]

If Jake signs with the pens July 1st then it’s a great deal for everyone lol.

Jake’s value went down because he said he wasn’t resigning with any teams.

 

[Hobnobs]

If I were a Pens fan I'd be pissed...

 

[Petes2424]

Poor Pittsburgh fans went from prospect greed, saying they’d be disappointed if Blake wasn’t the prospect “included” with Morrow…. to googling their new prospects within minutes…

 

[Xerloris]

So I thought Guentzel was more sought after than Buchnevich? If this was the return for the "better player" then thank god we haven't traded Buch cus that return f***ing sucks lol

 

[molon labe]

If I were a Pens fan I'd be pissed...

Restocking the cupboard with a couple lotto tickets is by far and away the least concerning thing this team has done. Don't let the chicks and yinzers on social media convince you otherwise.

We're pissed that the front office has continually - and I mean continually for six calendar years - prioritized giving Mike Sullivan the keys to the kingdom over actually trying to compete. This year especially with a paper tiger metro.

We're pissed that the moment we get an ounce of cap space we squander it on mids.

We're pissed that instead of surrounding the aging vets with younger talent - we surround them with equally old sidecar players that contenders may pick up in onsie twosies - not the entire squad.

Pissed that the powerplay is historically bad.

Pissed the bottom 6 has been atrocious for years - but circle back to Mike Sullivan for that. Those are his guys.

There are plenty of reasons to be pissed and dealing Guentzel on an expiring deal for a roster player and 3 prospects isn't one of them. It's nothing to immediately celebrate - that's all.

 

[Gurglesons]

I’m a Pens fan. I am pissed.

Dubas is worse than Hextall.

 

[TheFamousFart]

I’m a Pens fan. I am pissed.

Dubas is worse than Hextall.

If Dubas managed to get hired that means Jarmo should have no problem having takers in the league.
That being said, the prospects Pens got are not at all bad, Koivunen is having a great season in Finnish league so he can basically be a wildcard how it translates to the NHL.

 

[Grigowski]

As an AVS-Fan i am glade he stays east.

The return for the Pens look more like "quantity" than "quality" at first sight....... Yikes....

Not the return Dubas had in mind......

 

[Peasy]

So remember the Pens fans telling me dubas had all this leverage after all the trades the other day

What an awful trade. Dubbie strikes again. I don't think GMs like this dude.

 

[mattihp]

sounds like a lot of trash for a good player

As much as I like Koivunen(not many 20yo can score like him in Liiga and on Kärpät to boot!), this Guentzel guy is pretty good too

 

[Arkstrom Scorpio]

Dubas... no words. Back in the 80s this would've been fine. How can't you, in the year 2024, properly evaluate talent? And the market value for said talent? It shouldn't be possible to be this utterly incompetent. Reminds me of that video with the Brazilian(?) guy going: "your salary is 200 thousand a week, your shoes cost 450 dollars, the pitch is in perfect condition, you play with a 500 dollar ball, before the game you eat the best meals prepared by the best chefs, sleep in a luxury bed, have amazing sex with a super model, get a three-hour massage, take a two hour nap, drive a Ferrari to the stadium and when the game is on, you still miss the net!".

 

[Edenjung]

Wow that is a haul.

 

[oceanchild]

No it would be something like Mikheyev, Raty, Podkolzin, the dman Pettersson, conditional 1st, conditional 5th. Maybe Hoglander instead of Mikheyev since Bunting is so much better than Mikheyev.

Nope, Mikheyev

Funny thing is, even with all the teams involved, this is the best he could do.

Hahaha

 

[oceanchild]

But when you're told Morrow, Blake and you hear it in several places I mean, pretty disappointing for journalist to be that careless and give out inaccurate info. That said I like the Fin. Just wish I had more to go on. To me he's the best player/upside in the deal. Don't know if that in and of itself is saying much however.

Doesn’t look like trader Jim gave up our best prospects, or anyone else. As time goes on, I hope you find at least one of these parts makes it to the NHL.

 

[PlushMinus]

This one's gonna take some time before we can says Pens got screwed. Need to see how those prospects turn out. All 3 seem to be point per game types in the lower leagues but NHL is a whole different ball - err puck - game. Time will tell

 

[Harvey Birdman]

So I thought Guentzel was more sought after than Buchnevich? If this was the return for the "better player" then thank god we haven't traded Buch cus that return f***ing sucks lol

Apparently Jake has made it apparent he is going to FA no matter what team he was traded too. That hurt his value.

 

[oceanchild]

All draft picks are lottery tickets. For a team with a shit prospect pool, gambling on 2 B prospects over 1 A prospect makes sense.

Just like with Mark Stone, if you trade Guentzel for 1 guy and he busts, you get nothing long term. Casting a wider net may have a lower upside, but it makes that disaster scenario less likely.

Your stance seems to have evolved significantly from the other threads. I am happy you are able to find the positives on this unmitigated disaster. Perhaps consider speaking in terms of what your hoping for, or would like to see, instead of playing the part of the antagonist and telling everyone in absolutes what your going to get.

Hopefully some of this package actually makes it to the NHL for you. Good luck with your GM as well, hopefully he doesn’t leave your franchise decimated of prospects with inflated contracts that set the market like he did the last one.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I'm surprised nobody beat that because that's awful, chances are just based on Odds Pittsburgh won't get the 5th or the 1st which makes this a steal for Carolina especially if they get an extension done.

 

[waitin425]

So it only becomes a 1st if Carolina makes it to the Cup final?

Dumbass strikes again.

 

[Ryder71]

Doesn’t look like trader Jim gave up our best prospects, or anyone else. As time goes on, I hope you find at least one of these parts makes it to the NHL.

I hope so as well. Lots of pieces hope at least one emerges.

 

[Ryder71]

Nope, Mikheyev

Funny thing is, even with all the teams involved, this is the best he could do.

Hahaha

The more I look into it the less im offended. Don't get me wrong, wanted to do better. However because the Canes prospect pool is so deep, maybe I was bit more skeptical than need be. The one prospect we got immediately bolts to 2hd or 3rd in our system.

 

[molon labe]

Poor Pittsburgh fans went from prospect greed, saying they’d be disappointed if Blake wasn’t the prospect “included” with Morrow…. to googling their new prospects within minutes…

You're talking about exclusive events but whatever makes you feel better.

I don't pretend to know about these scratch offs like many - but I know that 2 months of Jake Guentzel isn't worth holding on to nor crying about a return. We got in line with what most of 'us' wanted - roster, draft, prospects. Sitting here in the end and drumming up hyperbole over said prospects isn't my style but I understand the appeal on HF.

Only thing I'm (has been mentioned) annoyed with is the 2nd / conditional first. What I'm pissed at has zero to do with the trade and way, way more in line with Mike Sullivan outlasting Guentzel to begin with.

 

[Ryder71]

If I were a Pens fan I'd be pissed...

I was, now not so much. That's a lot of pieces, only have to hit on one or two to make it a good deal. Bunting is serviceable.