Confirmed Signing with Link: [CAR/MTL] Habs accept Kotkaniemi offer sheet (1 year, $6.1M), 2022 1st, 2022 3rd [Part III]

[Ajaton Azer]

I think that most of the game compilations of Carolina Hurricanes I see that Jesperi Kotkaniemi is playing very well. Not absolutely outstanding or absolutely rubbish, so maybe they are happy with him getting some produce done this early in the season!

 

[mattihp]

I think that most of the game compilations of Carolina Hurricanes I see that Jesperi Kotkaniemi is playing very well. Not absolutely outstanding or absolutely rubbish, so maybe they are happy with him getting some produce done this early in the season!

What? Is he their farmer?

 

[Ajaton Azer]

What? Is he their farmer?

I think that Pori is quite rural, if not in the reality, but in the thinking, so Jesperi if fitting fine! Happy to see him having produce.

 

[Ole Gil]

The front of the net guy always draws the short end of the stat stick.

But when you think about the play, who's more important to the goal. The guy screening the goalie or the guy that passed the puck to the guy who passed the puck who shot the floater on net that went in.

He looks like a 20g 20a player to me right now that does a lot of the dirty work.

 

[spockBokk]

Probably won’t ever happen, but an all 2018 1st rd pick line of Svechnikov -Kotkaniemi-Bokk would sure be fun.

I’m pretty confident that the plan for Kotkaniemi was/is to replace Trocheck as the long-term 2C, so Svechnikov-Kotkaniemi-Jarvis is likely next year’s 2nd line.

 

[Karl Eriksson]

This offer sheet is why they are undefeated

 

[c3z4r]

The pathetic saltiness is so transparent. Has 3 points now, 1 less than 7.875 mil game buster Suzuki with 1 less game played and as everyone seems so sadly eager to point out, only playing 12-14 mins a game!!

Suzuki is on his ELC.

 

[Gordian Knot]

Developing young player who seems to fit quite well into Carolina system. I expect great things from him after Olympic break when he has had some time to gel into team and continues to grow his own game. Doing lots of small things right and I haven't seen that much snow on his pants that Habs fans were telling previously.

 

[Stubu]

That being said there is no way KK lives up to this contract.

Agreed, mostly because this contract ends next year.

(Sheesh. How many dozens of times has that been pointed out in this thread? The total value for Canes won't be known until the extension -- or other outcome -- and that's seen next January the earliest. The offer sheet is just the first step in what they obviously hope is a longer term signing. Not that you're wrong per se but that's just one piece of the puzzle.)

 

[Oilslick941611]

Agreed, mostly because this contract ends next year.

(Sheesh. How many dozens of times has that been pointed out in this thread? The total value for Canes won't be known until the extension -- or other outcome -- and that's seen next January the earliest. The offer sheet is just the first step in what they obviously hope is a longer term signing.)

Do you think he’s gonna be okay with going 6m to probably a huge paycut? Not to mention the assets the canes lost in the process? If he walks or signs else where it’s a huge fail for the cans organization. And can’t be seen as anything other than trolling the Montreal organization

 

[Rafafouille]

Do you think he’s gonna be okay with going 6m to probably a huge paycut? Not to mention the assets the canes lost in the process? If he walks or signs else where it’s a huge fail for the cans organization. And can’t be seen as anything other than trolling the Montreal organization

He cannot walk or sign anywhere else until 2025. He's an RFA until then(7 nhl seasons)

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Do you think he’s gonna be okay with going 6m to probably a huge paycut? Not to mention the assets the canes lost in the process? If he walks or signs else where it’s a huge fail for the cans organization. And can’t be seen as anything other than trolling the Montreal organization

What is your valuation of 1 year of Kotkaniemi’s service, in terms of a trade return?

 

[Oilslick941611]

He cannot walk or sign anywhere else until 2025. He's an RFA until then(7 nhl seasons)

hold out when he goes from making 6 mil to being offered 2mil

 

[Stubu]

This was more about revenge for Carolina, that’s why it’s a 1 year deal. It’s like paying a high 1st for a 1 year test drive. If it works out they resign him if not he’s free to go somewhere else.

But that doesn't make any sense. It's pretty clear now that Canes tried to trade for Kotkaniemi before the offer sheeting. Had that happened, we'd already be looking at an extension being worked on. When it didn't, it made obvious sense to limit the necessarily overpriced OS to 1 year; you don't need to massage some revenge angle into the term.

(BTW, those aren't the only two options that unfold from this particular OS. And where's the high 1st rounder you mentioned?)

 

[bleedgreen]

Why is anyone still talking about whether or not he’ll be worth 6 million this year?

No one including Canes management thinks he will be. It was the cost of making the offer sheet work.

 

[Iwishihadaspacebar]

This offer sheet is why they are undefeated

Teams need to realise this and offer sheet players every year.

 

[Stubu]

Do you think he’s gonna be okay with going 6m to probably a huge paycut?

I haven't the foggiest idea. Depends on whether his agent sees part of the $6m as an advance in a longer recruitment or insists it had nothing to do with ensuring the offer sheet goes through. Or whatever.

Not to mention the assets the canes lost in the process?

That's a bit of a non sequitur in that connection? But yes, most every trade involving young players is something of a gamble, with potential for the assets lost.

If he walks or signs else where it’s a huge fail for the cans organization.

In that case they clearly lost the gamble. The weaponized cap space won't matter one bit but the lost picks are going to sting.

It's definitely among the possible outcomes, and that makes this transaction unusually interesting. I don't think it's a probable outcome but it's nevertheless possible. Need to stack up on popcorn.

And can’t be seen as anything other than trolling the Montreal organization

This thread seems to display how there are other views available, but I appreciate your self-awareness there.

 

[Riggins]

Why is anyone still talking about whether or not he’ll be worth 6 million this year?

No one including Canes management thinks he will be. It was the cost of making the offer sheet work.

They are a Cup contender and could use the cap space at the deadline, that's why it's still relevant as to whether this was worthwhile for them this year.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

They are a Cup contender and could use the cap space at the deadline, that's why it's still relevant as to whether this was worthwhile for them this year.

They can easily maneuver to $3.6 mil-ish with a healthy 20 man at the deadline. With retention so common, that’s more than enough to do whatever more they want to do.

 

[EquivalentStay]

Probably won’t ever happen, but an all 2018 1st rd pick line of Svechnikov -Kotkaniemi-Bokk would sure be fun.

I’m pretty confident that the plan for Kotkaniemi was/is to replace Trocheck as the long-term 2C, so Svechnikov-Kotkaniemi-Jarvis is likely next year’s 2nd line.

Tell me about Jarvis, don't follow the Canes much, already poised for 2nd line? Uneducated on the player.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Do you think he’s gonna be okay with going 6m to probably a huge paycut?

Literally zero people think he’s getting anywhere near $6M on his next contract. There would be no point in holding out for that much, given that he won’t be able to get it even if the Canes let him go to UFA.

His market value right now is in the $4M range, and that’s what he would get from someone if the Canes declined to quality him. There’s no point negotiating for 50% more than you’re worth, unless you have a buyer already on standby (as in the case of an offer sheet). It’s extremely safe to say the negotiations will ignore the QO value and simply treat him as if he were a ~$4M UFA.

The real question is how much term he’s looking for.

Not to mention the assets the canes lost in the process? If he walks or signs else where it’s a huge fail for the cans organization. And can’t be seen as anything other than trolling the Montreal organization

How is it any different than making a similar trade at the deadline? Teams do this every year without anyone screaming “huge fail”.

They are a Cup contender and could use the cap space at the deadline, that's why it's still relevant as to whether this was worthwhile for them this year.

Don’t forget that prior to signing him, they had a massive hole in their middle-6. Filling that hole was worthwhile in its own right, especially considering how hard it’s going to be to make the playoffs in the Metro this year.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Tell me about Jarvis, don't follow the Canes much, already poised for 2nd line? Uneducated on the player.

He’s a very slick, smart player offensively. Has all the qualities of a future top-6 forward. Definitely has the skill set to be a scoring winger, and there’s upside for him to be a center if he continues developing his 200-foot game. He’s not a future Art Ross contender or anything like that, but projects to be at least a Trocheck level contributor offensively (assuming all goes to plan, of course).

Right now he’s somewhat of a AAAA player. Not good enough to send a Kotkaniemi or Niederreiter to the press box, but way too good to go back to juniors. It puts the Canes in a tough spot because the smart option (playing a star role on an AHL team) isn’t on the table due to the CBA rules.

They’re taking their time giving him his 9 games and letting him hang around the NHL a bit. Would expect him to make the Canes in the next year or two (partially as a matter of being cheaper than a veteran) and play middle-6 minutes.

 

[Stubu]

He cannot walk or sign anywhere else until 2025. He's an RFA until then(7 nhl seasons)

It's more complicated than that in this case. The possible outcomes include arbitration that doesn't lead to an accepted QO and the player walking into UFA (instead of RFA) status next year. Whether that's actually an advantageous position for the player/agent in this particular case is another question altogether. Making it interesting to watch how this unfolds next year. It's pretty clear from various statements that this wasn't just some improvised move from the Canes FO but a lot remains open ended. Very entertaining.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

He’s a very slick, smart player offensively. Has all the qualities of a future top-6 forward. Definitely has the skill set to be a scoring winger, and there’s upside for him to be a center if he continues developing his 200-foot game. He’s not a future Art Ross contender or anything like that, but projects to be at least a Trocheck level contributor offensively (assuming all goes to plan, of course).

Right now he’s somewhat of a AAAA player. Not good enough to send a Kotkaniemi or Niederreiter to the press box, but way too good to go back to juniors. It puts the Canes in a tough spot because the smart option (playing a star role on an AHL team) isn’t on the table due to the CBA rules.

They’re taking their time giving him his 9 games and letting him hang around the NHL a bit. Would expect him to make the Canes in the next year or two (partially as a matter of being cheaper than a veteran) and play middle-6 minutes.

What do the Canes do if he refuses to take less than his qualifying offer?

 

[Oilslick941611]

Literally zero people think he’s getting anywhere near $6M on his next contract. There would be no point in holding out for that much, given that he won’t be able to get it even if the Canes let him go to UFA.

His market value right now is in the $4M range, and that’s what he would get from someone if the Canes declined to quality him. There’s no point negotiating for 50% more than you’re worth, unless you have a buyer already on standby (as in the case of an offer sheet). It’s extremely safe to say the negotiations will ignore the QO value and simply treat him as if he were a ~$4M UFA.

The canes are the one who screwed up his pay scale. Players usually look for more on their next contracts regardless of how they were acquired.

The real question is how much term he’s looking for.

who knows, probably to UFA?

How is it any different than making a similar trade at the deadline? Teams do this every year without anyone screaming “huge fail”.

Its wasn't done at the trade deadline, it was done in the offseason. around some questionable motives ($20 signing bonus)


Don’t forget that prior to signing him, they had a massive hole in their middle-6. Filling that hole was worthwhile in its own right, especially considering how hard it’s going to be to make the playoffs in the Metro this year.
Maybe, maybe not, middle six players generally aren't signed to 6 mil deals in addition to giving up draft picks - cheaper and probably deals out there to fill middle six positions. The criticism/jokes/memes and questions around this deal are totally understandable and GM's are probably pissed because it rising the bar on signing like players. The value proposition of this whole is whacky to begin with and then you add in the bitter old wife aspect from Aho offer sheet and its easy to see way people think its a revenge deal that the bluff was called on. Thats fair, KK probably helps the Canes this year but I don't see negations going easy in the future and RFA's everywhere just got a stupid comparable.