Confirmed Signing with Link: [CAR/MTL] Habs accept Kotkaniemi offer sheet (1 year, $6.1M), 2022 1st, 2022 3rd [Part II]

[Runner77]

Perhaps the Aho situation made him change his mind about playing hardball with his stars?

Apparently that never happened.

This piece says otherwise: Gold: Waddell situation part of larger Canes story :: WRALSportsFan.com

Sebastian Aho, the team’s dynamic, star center, was lowballed in contract discussions… Did the league’s collective bargaining agreement (CBA) allow for the Canes to try and force a below-market deal on Aho — their best player? Yes. But, is that the best way to use the system? Just because you have Jaccob Slavin on a bargain contract doesn’t mean every one of your players needs to get in line. Aho deserves to be paid what players of his ilk receive around the league. So, ask yourself what would be better for Carolina, Aho for eight years at $9.5 million annually, or five years at $8.45 and the baggage of a bitter contract negotiation in which they were told to accept the team’s insulting (my opinion) contract for eight years or play on the one-year, $1 million qualifying offer?

 

[flying v 604]

Replace Hab fan by a fan of any team in all threads and it’ll be the same result — without hyperbole and hot takes, you wouldn’t have a forum. All par for the course.

That's obvious every fanbase has homers but hab fans put a target on their back because of just how over the top they are on both sides of the coin.
For 2 years many of them defended him saying he's better than Quinn or Brady and would go out of their way to mock Quinn but the minute KK left those same people bashed him and started acting like Dvorak was some gut they had watched a ton and would replace Phil.
Romanov, Ghule, Poehling, Brooks, Cole, Suzuki, same thing they hype them up to the point where any honest assessment is met with trolling and when said prospect doesn't deliver they shit on them. I dunno, maybe the fact they haven't drafted a superstar aside from Price has Jaded them?

 

[Runner77]

That's obvious every fanbase has homers but hab fans put a target on their back because of just how over the top they are on both sides of the coin.
For 2 years many of them defended him saying he's better than Quinn or Brady and would go out of their way to mock Quinn but the minute KK left those same people bashed him and started acting like Dvorak was some gut they had watched a ton and would replace Phil.
Romanov, Ghule, Poehling, Brooks, Cole, Suzuki, same thing they hype them up to the point where any honest assessment is met with trolling and when said prospect doesn't deliver they shit on them. I dunno, maybe the fact they haven't drafted a superstar aside from Price has Jaded them?

They have Bergevin as GM and a captive, spineless ownership group enabling him — something about glass houses.

 

[A Loyal Demidog]

I would be happy if Kotkaniemi breaks out with Carolina. He seems like a really nice guy - and was unfairly yo-yo'd around by the Habs. I always believed in him.

 

[Runner77]

I would be happy if Kotkaniemi breaks out with Carolina. He seems like a really nice guy - and was unfairly yo-yo'd around by the Habs. I always believed in him.

You’re proof positive that not all Habs fans feel the same about Kotkaniemi.

I liked the player since he was drafted. Not going to change how I view the player just cause he’s playing for another team.

 

[Colezuki]

You’re proof positive that not all Habs fans feel the same about Kotkaniemi.

I liked the player since he was drafted. Not going to change how I view the player just cause he’s playing for another team.

Can I like the player and hate the cap hit because that drives the decision for me

 

[Penaltykiller17]

Negotiations with Aho had dragged out for months. It went way beyond your theory about Dundon willing to pay for on ice product, especially an elite asset like Aho.

As I mentioned, his negotiating approach may have evolved as a result of that failed negotiation. It wasn’t always the case that he was willing to pay what it takes to secure elite level talent long term.

This is simply not true. Aho signed the offer sheet literally on the first day he had the opportunity. That year, the Hurricanes were bounced out of the playoffs in mid-May, and Aho signed on July 1st. Even if you think negotiations started the day after the playoff exit, that only leaves a month and a half of contract talks, which does not equate to months. GMDW indicated before the free agency that he thought the negotiations could go on for months, but it never got to that point.

Aho's signing is a clear case of a player wanting what he wants, and he found some team that was willing to give it to him. Aho expressed that he wanted to get a deal done as early as possible so that it didn't interrupt his offseason and training camp. Carolina's main ask was always more term than dollar amount. Aho wanted the Matthews-type contract, and Carolina wanted something more long term.

There has been no negotiating approach change from Carolina's end. Each player is different, and what player A wants doesn't mean that's what player B wants. Case in point, Carolina offered Aho the same deal that Svechnikov eventually signed. Clearly Svechnikov wanted something more long term while Aho wanted something shorter that'll lead him right into UFA status.

I think it's a huge double standard that when other teams try to sign players to team-friendly deals it's considered negotiating, but when Carolina does it we're being cheap or lowballing players. Say what you want about Dundon or the organization in general, but we've been able to sign all our young players well before the start of the seasons, while there are several teams up north that have/had their young players hold out of training camp, and I even believe some games, with one player in Nylander waiting until literally minutes from his deadline to sign.

 

[Pietrangelo]

Well if others are hyping their players for scoring against non-NHLers, the same should apply to KK.
He's got 2 points so far it seems (1G1A) and first just finished

With that kind of logic, Dvorak is 2x better than Kotkaniemi since he scored twice as many points as him.

 

[Runner77]

Can I like the player and hate the cap hit because that drives the decision for me

The cap hit is only the consequence of buying the player’s rights and is only for one season. It all hinges on Kotkaniemi’s progress and how reasonable his demands would be in the context of a long term extension, assuming he’s open to one. To me, the cap hit part is not the deciding factor since it’s premature at this stage.

 

[Colezuki]

The cap hit is only the consequence of buying the player’s rights and is only for one season. It all hinges on Kotkaniemi’s progress and how reasonable his demands would be in the context of a long term extension, assuming he’s open to one. To me, the cap hit part is not the deciding factor since it’s premature at this stage.

What? But it would never be for one season, that’s the issue, he would demand it each year moving forward. As much as I do like KK (it’s part of my name which I still can’t change for another 4 months) to ignore his cap hit isn’t how the league works. The deal was never Kk or the offer sheet the deal from the moment it was signed was

Cap space +1st +3rd which turned into
Dvo -2nd +3rd
Or
Kk -lehk or -Byron +whatever tiny asset you get back for then

unfortunately the league has a cap system and you need to evaluate based on it.

 

[Habs Halifax]

You’re proof positive that not all Habs fans feel the same about Kotkaniemi.

I liked the player since he was drafted. Not going to change how I view the player just cause he’s playing for another team.

In truth, Habs fans don't agree about anything most of the time . We have a lot of dooms day fans and then others who felt KK was the right pick but our idiot management inserted him at age 18 and then rag dolled him. Montreal is the last place you should rush prospects.

I have no doubt KK will put up points. The area or unanswered question is how complete will his game be. When will he fill into his frame and can he develop better edge work and improve his skating. His vision and shot are top notch. Hockey IQ is above average but he needs to improve in the intangible areas. Takes time

 

[WreckingCrew]

Apparently that never happened.

This piece says otherwise: Gold: Waddell situation part of larger Canes story :: WRALSportsFan.com

Sebastian Aho, the team’s dynamic, star center, was lowballed in contract discussions… Did the league’s collective bargaining agreement (CBA) allow for the Canes to try and force a below-market deal on Aho — their best player? Yes. But, is that the best way to use the system? Just because you have Jaccob Slavin on a bargain contract doesn’t mean every one of your players needs to get in line. Aho deserves to be paid what players of his ilk receive around the league. So, ask yourself what would be better for Carolina, Aho for eight years at $9.5 million annually, or five years at $8.45 and the baggage of a bitter contract negotiation in which they were told to accept the team’s insulting (my opinion) contract for eight years or play on the one-year, $1 million qualifying offer?

Where is the lowballing? As stated hundreds of times, it was term, not $$$ that the two parties disagreed on. Also, this is Adam Gold. Also, he immediately followed-up complaining that we were cheap bc we hadn't resigned Williams yet...who intentionally waited until January bc he was debating retiring and opted instead for a partial season of play. Just stop, you're embarrassing yourself

 

[Doc5]

With that kind of logic, Dvorak is 2x better than Kotkaniemi since he scored twice as many points as him.

Where did you get Dvorak from that post?

 

[HabsQC]

That's obvious every fanbase has homers but hab fans put a target on their back because of just how over the top they are on both sides of the coin.
For 2 years many of them defended him saying he's better than Quinn or Brady and would go out of their way to mock Quinn but the minute KK left those same people bashed him and started acting like Dvorak was some gut they had watched a ton and would replace Phil.
Romanov, Ghule, Poehling, Brooks, Cole, Suzuki, same thing they hype them up to the point where any honest assessment is met with trolling and when said prospect doesn't deliver they shit on them. I dunno, maybe the fact they haven't drafted a superstar aside from Price has Jaded them?

You know there's a lot of Habs fans on this site right. There's as many opinions as there are fans. It'd be fun if you had some actual quotes to back up your statements though. Personnally, I gave KK a chance at the beginning but I admitted quite fast that I would've preferred Brady Tkachuk over KK.

And overrating own team's prospects is a HFboards thing, not just a Habs fans thing. Want some examples ? Honka, Sandin, Bear, Ho-Sang, Cormier and there are many more.

 

[Stubu]

What? But it would never be for one season, that’s the issue, he would demand it each year moving forward.

So you think he would. Maybe his agent won't. Maybe his agent understands what is a poison pill in an offer sheet. Maybe his agent isn't going for something unreasonable in some other team that hasn't as clearly wanted the player. -- We simply won't know until January where both parties are at when they start talking extension.

The deal was never Kk or the offer sheet
the deal from the moment it was signed was

Nope, for some time after it was signed Habs certainly evaluated the situation and whether they should match. Obviously they didn't match. Obviously the OS was crafted to make just that outcome happen. But most certainly the org did spend some time estimating the pros and cons and the plan Bs and Cs.

Maybe I'm just misreading your "the deal" there, but you sort of make it sound like they already had a plan to swap Kotkaniemi for someone like Dvorak and some picks.

 

[Runner77]

What? But it would never be for one season, that’s the issue, he would demand it each year moving forward. As much as I do like KK (it’s part of my name which I still can’t change for another 4 months) to ignore his cap hit isn’t how the league works. The deal was never Kk or the offer sheet the deal from the moment it was signed was

Cap space +1st +3rd which turned into
Dvo -2nd +3rd
Or
Kk -lehk or -Byron +whatever tiny asset you get back for then

unfortunately the league has a cap system and you need to evaluate based on it.

We don’t know what Kotkaniemi would demand once the Canes can open negotiations with him on a new deal. Hence, I tempted to believe that he might be reasonable given that the Canes helped him get out of a team he no longer wanted to be a part of. All speculation at this point, of course.

 

[Runner77]

Where is the lowballing? As stated hundreds of times, it was term, not $$$ that the two parties disagreed on. Also, this is Adam Gold. Also, he immediately followed-up complaining that we were cheap bc we hadn't resigned Williams yet...who intentionally waited until January bc he was debating retiring and opted instead for a partial season of play. Just stop, you're embarrassing yourself

Who is Adam Gold and why does it matter? Instead of resorting to condescending barbs, just make your point. I’m not out to offend anyone. I don’t know who you are and now, with the way you’ve chosen to answer, it’s pretty obvious where this is headed. Thanks for nothing.

 

[Jeune Poulet]

We don’t know what Kotkaniemi would demand once the Canes can open negotiations with him on a new deal. Hence, I only assumed that he might be reasonable given that the Canes helped him get out of a team he no longer wanted to be a part of.

That's an unrealistic expectation. To say the least.

 

[Runner77]

That's an unrealistic expectation. To say the least.

Who’s to say? No one knows for certain until the time comes. We shall see.

 

[Pietrangelo]

Where did you get Dvorak from that post?

All the Montreal fans hyping up Dvorak for his 4 point night? Or were you implying a specific player/fan base with your post? I don’t understand this question.

 

[TheBuriedHab]

Where is the lowballing? As stated hundreds of times, it was term, not $$$ that the two parties disagreed on. Also, this is Adam Gold. Also, he immediately followed-up complaining that we were cheap bc we hadn't resigned Williams yet...who intentionally waited until January bc he was debating retiring and opted instead for a partial season of play. Just stop, you're embarrassing yourself

I remember some of the TSN insiders were suggesting Aho was being offered in the 6-6.5 x 8 range.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

That's an unrealistic expectation. To say the least.

It’s an absolutely realistic possibility, and one that has been talked about by the ‘insiders’. It may not happen but it’s definitely a reasonable possibility on the negotiations.

 

[Colezuki]

So you think he would. Maybe his agent won't. Maybe his agent understands what is a poison pill in an offer sheet. Maybe his agent isn't going for something unreasonable in some other team that hasn't as clearly wanted the player. -- We simply won't know until January where both parties are at when they start talking extension.


Nope, for some time after it was signed Habs certainly evaluated the situation and whether they should match. Obviously they didn't match. Obviously the OS was crafted to make just that outcome happen. But most certainly the org did spend some time estimating the pros and cons and the plan Bs and Cs.

Maybe I'm just misreading your "the deal" there, but you sort of make it sound like they already had a plan to swap Kotkaniemi for someone like Dvorak and some picks.

Sorry I think you did, I was saying the deal was losing KK and getting a 1st +3rd and cap space, which he changed into dvo.

 

[Stuzchuk]

The CBA language only says the matching team is barred from trading the player, there's no mention of any similar restrictions on the team that made the offer sheet.

yup and the Q&A on NHL.com doesnt say anything either on this....

What happens when a player signs an offer sheet?
The player must give his team notice of the offer sheet and his team then has seven days to determine if it wants to match the terms. The player cannot be traded in that seven-day period.

If matched, the player remains with his team under the terms of the offer sheet he signed and he would not be eligible to be traded for one year.

If his team refuses to match, the player goes to the team that signed him to the offer sheet and his former team receives compensation in draft picks, based on the financial terms of the offer sheet.

The team signing the player to the offer sheet must be in possession of the necessary draft picks that would go to the player's former team as compensation if the offer sheet is not matched.

Contract offer sheet questions, answers

 

[Husqvarna]

Jesperi Kotkaniemi with his Finland homeboys Sebastian Aho and Teuvo Teräväinen along his side this time around in Carolina - will be lika a Hurricane. So; watch out USA/Canada; coz they even can't spell to bad Finland rock'n'roll hockey: