Speculation: Caps Roster General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines etc) - 2023 Off-season

[twabby]

Here is the video of this rumor, for those who want some relief.

Or in my case disappointment.

 

[LesDiablesRouges]

I don't believe this, even if it makes all the sense in the world.

Just a note on this……While I usually am very skeptical of every rumor that’s not from a credible insider, York is a veteran of 700-plus games in the NHL and his brother did just by a stake in the Senators. It’s probably not a real rumor, but I am less inclined to immediately shoot this down than I would be other random reports. While moving Wilson would suck, I’d absolutely trade him for DeBrincat. If we are being real, Wilson will either age gracefully or he will have a massive drop like Lucic. His next contract is absolutely going to be high risk and high reward because of the realities of how players with his playing style age (without even considering his knee injury).

 

[kicksavedave]

On paper it makes sense to trade Willie for a kings ransom. Bill Belichek would do it without a second pause. But the Caps, Ted and BM, do not operate that way. They will clearly take the risks to reward long time home grown players. They have done that many times over and trading Willie right now absolutely shits in Ovi's face with regard to keeping the team competitive during his window.

I give this rumor 0.002% chance of becoming real.

 

[SecretaryofDefense5]

Here is the video of this rumor, for those who want some relief.

Or in my case disappointment.

That dude is making sh*t up without a doubt. “I heard…” OK….

 

[twabby]

Just a note on this……While I usually am very skeptical of every rumor that’s not from a credible insider, York is a veteran of 700-plus games in the NHL and his brother did just by a stake in the Senators. It’s probably not a real rumor, but I am less inclined to immediately shoot this down than I would be other random reports. While moving Wilson would suck, I’d absolutely trade him for DeBrincat. If we are being real, Wilson will either age gracefully or he will have a massive drop like Lucic. His next contract is absolutely going to be high risk and high reward because of the realities of how players with his playing style age (without even considering his knee injury).

I still doubt the rumor but good to know that info about York. Hard to believe Washington would let that info leak. They run a tight ship.

I like DeBrincat quite a bit but I still wonder how he fits in DC with Ovechkin still likely manning the turret on the PP. You'd hope the PP would undergo a significant transformation but even still there's a lot of overlap between DeBrincat and Ovechkin in terms of PP skillset.

DeBrincat is the caliber of player I think Wilson would return in a trade, but I'd much prefer they approach Toronto about trading Wilson for Nylander. Nylander is much more what Washington needs if they are attempting to win now, and I doubt Washington would have to add much in such a trade.

I mentioned it before but I think the biggest risk of re-signing Wilson isn't that he'll fall off a cliff (though I certainly think he'll decline soon), but that they'd turn down a king's ransom for a solid but unspectacular player in Wilson. Opportunity cost would be massive. For a team that needs to thread the perfect needle to return to relevancy given their lack of high-end players Wilson is one trade chip that can get them a high-end player now. So even if Wilson stays a good middle six winger they'd be giving up potentially a good top line player for that privilege.

 

[kicksavedave]

I still doubt the rumor but good to know that info about York. Hard to believe Washington would let that info leak. They run a tight ship.

I like DeBrincat quite a bit but I still wonder how he fits in DC with Ovechkin still likely manning the turret on the PP. You'd hope the PP would undergo a significant transformation but even still there's a lot of overlap between DeBrincat and Ovechkin in terms of PP skillset.

DeBrincat is the caliber of player I think Wilson would return in a trade, but I'd much prefer they approach Toronto about trading Wilson for Nylander. Nylander is much more what Washington needs if they are attempting to win now, and I doubt Washington would have to add much in such a trade.

I mentioned it before but I think the biggest risk of re-signing Wilson isn't that he'll fall off a cliff (though I certainly think he'll decline soon), but that they'd turn down a king's ransom for a solid but unspectacular player in Wilson. Opportunity cost would be massive. For a team that needs to thread the perfect needle to return to relevancy given their lack of high-end players Wilson is one trade chip that can get them a high-end player now. So even if Wilson stays a good middle six winger they'd be giving up potentially a good top line player for that privilege.

Twabby, you've convinced every one of us here (not really) but you'll never convince Ted and GMBM.

 

[traparatus]

It's not that easy to make those changes though. I mean for sure he wanted to improve the top-6 but it's more on the players like Kuznetsov and Mantha who tanked their value and now nobody wants them at their prices anymore. I'm sure it sucks for GMBM too but he's not an idiot. If he retains salary and gives someone a free Kuznetsov who then goes on to score 80 points for a good team then that's his ass on the chopping block. All because Kuznetsov mailed it in here to tank his value. Same goes with Mantha. If you pay a steep price from our already-poor prospect pool just to get rid of him and he bounces back elsewhere, guess who is getting the boot for it? He paid a steep price to get him here in the first place.

After those 2 we can move on to Backstrom. I thought GMBM put a lot of pressure (more than i'd have expected) on Backstrom to try and solve this situation one way or another because at this point he's holding us hostage with that contract. But there is literally nothing else GMBM can do regarding that situation. Backstrom buy-out or trade isn't coming and as it seems likely that he'll keep on playing, there goes another potential cap help that he had in mind which to use on improving the top-6.

It's easy to blame the GM for not making the team better but this is one of those cases where to me that there is no doubt that this is on the players. They mailed it in and now nobody wants them anymore, because they don't deserve their current pay checks. Backstrom's case is just getting sad now. He's a franchise legend who has dragged this to a point where big part of the fan base wants him to just go away and he's not ready to let go of his dream.

I'm with you regarding Backstrom. This side of convincing him to retire, there isn't much BMac can do.

What about Eller? What did the team gain by playing him the last 2+ seasons? Results were poor and he was clearly trending in the wrong direction. That's a lost development opportunity, IMO.

Did Irwin need to play 60+ games last season?

There have been opportunities to open up slots to improve the team, maybe not immediately but in the medium term.

Also, BMac did trade for Mantha, knowing full well that he won't see the ice on the PP and he'll have to play his weak side most of the time. That was a massive overpay and a player who was never really put in a position to be his best self in his time with the Caps.

 

[McVechkin]

Lebrun on tsn saying he’s talking to GMBM and he said he has no idea why that rumor is out there as he’s not calling teams and not taking calls in Wilson.. has no interest in trading him.

Now that could be GM speak, but GMBM is generally true to his word.

 

[John Price]

All these rumors about Tom Wilson in Ottawa are very very "fake" news, he is not going anywhere!

 

[trick9]

I'll happily send him to Senators if they pay the price.

Which one they want to move? Tkachuk, Stutzle or Sanderson?

 

[Roshi]

I still doubt the rumor but good to know that info about York. Hard to believe Washington would let that info leak. They run a tight ship.

I like DeBrincat quite a bit but I still wonder how he fits in DC with Ovechkin still likely manning the turret on the PP. You'd hope the PP would undergo a significant transformation but even still there's a lot of overlap between DeBrincat and Ovechkin in terms of PP skillset.

DeBrincat is the caliber of player I think Wilson would return in a trade, but I'd much prefer they approach Toronto about trading Wilson for Nylander. Nylander is much more what Washington needs if they are attempting to win now, and I doubt Washington would have to add much in such a trade.

I mentioned it before but I think the biggest risk of re-signing Wilson isn't that he'll fall off a cliff (though I certainly think he'll decline soon), but that they'd turn down a king's ransom for a solid but unspectacular player in Wilson. Opportunity cost would be massive. For a team that needs to thread the perfect needle to return to relevancy given their lack of high-end players Wilson is one trade chip that can get them a high-end player now. So even if Wilson stays a good middle six winger they'd be giving up potentially a good top line player for that privilege.

Im a big believer of building a culture, before building a team.

Im a big believer our only cup was won by building and finding the needed culture, and not by acquiring just the best talent avaivable. Guys like Orpik, Williams, Oshie, and Wilson played a huge part in that win. Trotz aswell. While our early 'young guns' team filled with superstar talent kept going from disappointment to the next one.

And thats why i dont think its a mistake to not maximize Wilson's value by trading for assets or talent. He is that kind of a person who will keep Caps on the right way, someone who the young next generation can look up to.

In the right culture the developement curve of not just one, but pretty much your whole prospect pool will result in higher value. Aswell as the value for our bottom6ers and depth players, for our team atleast. 'Play the game the right way', and confidence and level of demand matter. Organization showing loyalty and appreciation towards their trusted personnel also matters. All the little things matter, and will result on ice.

You cant expect commitment, level of demand and loyalty from players if you dont give it for them yourself. If you play your part just by business and opportunism, thats what you can expect from your players too. Thats partly why I also dont hyperventilate for us having a 9,2 million 3C. Its part of the cultural process. I actually like how Ted handles the ownership, with passion and loyalty. That kind of stuff will flow from up to down. And thats something that gives me belief that we will get back there after this group comes to the end of its line.

Im not saying you cant build and achieve that kind of culture without Tom Wilson. Just saying that I dont care if we could get a little bit more talented player or few draft picks instead of him, because in the big picture ill just rather have the little less talented guy when that option might be better for the organization culturally.

 

[pman25]

Lebrun on tsn saying he’s talking to GMBM and he said he has no idea why that rumor is out there as he’s not calling teams and not taking calls in Wilson.. has no interest in trading him.

Now that could be GM speak, but GMBM is generally true to his word.

It's out there because of Twabby!

But really, come on - Any guy who is one year away from UFA will be added to the rumor mill. It's just natural.

 

[The Instigator]

TheScore has an article predicting UFA landing spots and they have Tarasenko landing here for 4 years at $5 million per season.

I'm not sure I see that as a possibility.

 

[AlexModvechkin8]

TheScore has an article predicting UFA landing spots and they have Tarasenko landing here for 4 years at $5 million per season.

I'm not sure I see that as a possibility.

Goes against them getting younger and faster. If they’d been able to trade Mantha I could maybe see it but seems unlikely. It’s also against MacLellan’s MO which is to find underrated players they can get on bargain contracts. Who was the last free agent forward they gave a bunch of money and term to? Honestly besides Keumper who is the last player they gave a big free agent contract to?

 

[twabby]

Im a big believer of building a culture, before building a team.

Im a big believer our only cup was won by building and finding the needed culture, and not by acquiring just the best talent avaivable. Guys like Orpik, Williams, Oshie, and Wilson played a huge part in that win. Trotz aswell. While our early 'young guns' team filled with superstar talent kept going from disappointment to the next one.

And thats why i dont think its a mistake to not maximize Wilson's value by trading for assets or talent. He is that kind of a person who will keep Caps on the right way, someone who the young next generation can look up to.

In the right culture the developement curve of not just one, but pretty much your whole prospect pool will result in higher value. Aswell as the value for our bottom6ers and depth players, for our team atleast. 'Play the game the right way', and confidence and level of demand matter. Organization showing loyalty and appreciation towards their trusted personnel also matters. All the little things matter, and will result on ice.

You cant expect commitment, level of demand and loyalty from players if you dont give it for them yourself. If you play your part just by business and opportunism, thats what you can expect from your players too. Thats partly why I also dont hyperventilate for us having a 9,2 million 3C. Its part of the cultural process. I actually like how Ted handles the ownership, with passion and loyalty. That kind of stuff will flow from up to down. And thats something that gives me belief that we will get back there after this group comes to the end of its line.

Im not saying you cant build and achieve that kind of culture without Tom Wilson. Just saying that I dont care if we could get a little bit more talented player or few draft picks instead of him, because in the big picture ill just rather have the little less talented guy when that option might be better for the organization culturally.

I respect this opinion, though I disagree with pretty much all of it.

I get that they need to avoid turning into the toxic messes like Winnipeg and Philadelphia for instance, but overpay for glue guys in free agency or trade for one then. That's exactly what they did with Orpik, Niskanen, Williams, and Oshie. They can do it again if the culture slips. Bring in a coach that creates a great culture, as you alluded to. Carbery seems like a decent bet. Trotz certainly was this as you said.

They've treated Tom Wilson well. They've been loyal to him. The contract ended up working out well but they could have offered him quite a bit less than they did 5 years ago. Instead they showed faith in him, committed to him, and gave him a contract that certainly wasn't a discount. He'll be fine if they let him go, and there should be no hard feelings from him if they do.

 

[um]

On paper it makes sense to trade Willie for a kings ransom. Bill Belichek would do it without a second pause. But the Caps, Ted and BM, do not operate that way. They will clearly take the risks to reward long time home grown players. They have done that many times over and trading Willie right now absolutely shits in Ovi's face with regard to keeping the team competitive during his window.

I give this rumor 0.002% chance of becoming real.

It's only shitting in Ovies face if Wilson is traded for prospects and draft picks. Getting a younger top line forward back would be worth it.

But I agree, very little chance of happening. I think Wilson will resign after July 1.

 

[Langway]

DeBrincat for 40 and Mantha? Could be a win-win. Reunites DBC with Strome. Mantha gives Ottawa more size and a buy-low top six option. DBC is 25 so further fits the get younger mantra.

 

[The Instigator]

Goes against them getting younger and faster. If they’d been able to trade Mantha I could maybe see it but seems unlikely. It’s also against MacLellan’s MO which is to find underrated players they can get on bargain contracts. Who was the last free agent forward they gave a bunch of money and term to? Honestly besides Keumper who is the last player they gave a big free agent contract to?

Pretty much what I was thinking too. I also wonder if that deal is all Tarasenko can get? There seems to be some big money going around and he's had injury problems but he's still a significant name.

I can't think of anyone since like, Matt Niskanen that we've signed as a UFA.

DeBrincat for 40 and Mantha? Could be a win-win. Reunites DBC with Strome. Mantha gives Ottawa more size and a buy-low top six option. DBC is 25 so further fits the get younger mantra.

If we got Debrincat for that I would be lose my mind. I would assume it means 2024 1sts are the only ones available to him.

 

[twabby]

DeBrincat is going to go for less than people imagine, so yeah I wouldn't be shocked if 40 + Mantha is the type of return they get.

Kind of wild that Dorion straight out said they weren't getting a first round pick back though!

 

[The Instigator]

DeBrincat is going to go for less than people imagine, so yeah I wouldn't be shocked if 40 + Mantha is the type of return they get.

Kind of wild that Dorion straight out said they weren't getting a first round pick back though!

Technically it only means they won't be getting a 2023 1st back.

 

[AlexModvechkin8]

DeBrincat is going to go for less than people imagine, so yeah I wouldn't be shocked if 40 + Mantha is the type of return they get.

Kind of wild that Dorion straight out said they weren't getting a first round pick back though!

He announced DJ Smith is coming back today to deflect away from the ADB debacle.

 

[HTFN]

He announced DJ Smith is coming back today to deflect away from the ADB debacle.

Which kind of feels like lighting a fire in the kitchen to distract from the flood in the basement, but maybe I'm a little out of the loop and they like him there now?

 

[AlexModvechkin8]

Which kind of feels like lighting a fire in the kitchen to distract from the flood in the basement, but maybe I'm a little out of the loop and they like him there now?

I do not think Sens fans are stoked on DJ Smith but I could be wrong. And yeah, the timing is odd — the day before the draft seems like a weird time to announce your coach is staying.

 

[Carlzner]

Today's looking like the day to make a move.

Let's get er done

 

[Langway]

I think the Caps would have a lot more interest in Barbashev than Tarasenko. Younger, faster, more versatile. It's buying high but he can excel at most any role (at LW anyway, less so at C).

A couple issues with pulling the trigger on a DeBrincat trade is that it more or less might have to be their only big move. Will better options shake loose? Probably not many younger ones at least. Also it's one less asset to use to move up. Of course, I think you'd rather have DeBrincat & Benson over just Michkov. Progressing to the point of extension talks at this late hour could also be problematic. Might need to wait until after the draft for that...and it's a very quick turnaround this year to UFA. Just one day off and then it's 7/1.

Detroit has been the main suitor for DeBrincat. They've got the picks, space and need to do it. But if Ottawa wants a replacement top sixer back the best they could do is maybe Kubalik. And you wonder if Detroit won't aim higher.