Speculation: Caps Roster General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines/etc) | 2023-24 Regular Season Edition

[twabby]

Malkin looks a bit old but Crosby has been unreal. EK65 has been solid as well.

Guentzel is a guy who I think will be coveted if the Pens don’t re-sign him.

I'd hesitate to re-sign Guentzel if I were Pittsburgh. He's a fine player but he's going to get a ton as a UFA and Pittsburgh would be wise to shore up the rest of their team instead of signing an aging, likely-to-decline winger to a way too long deal.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I'd hesitate to re-sign Guentzel if I were Pittsburgh. He's a fine player but he's going to get a ton as a UFA and Pittsburgh would be wise to shore up the rest of their team instead of signing an aging, likely-to-decline winger to a way too long deal.

Well, you also would have traded Tom Wilson, so who is really listening to you?

 

[Midnight Judges]

Crosby is legit having an MVP performance, they are in 7th.

Uh what. He's 25th in points and pacing to be out-pointed by 45 points by multiple other players (neither of whom are named McDavid).

He's also the 4th worst in terms of goals against per 60 on the Pens at 5v5 among their regulars. In other words, his defense sucks very badly despite a legion of people saying otherwise.

Even though he got hurt more, Crosby physically prepared and took care of himself during his career, Ovi didn't. Even unicorns and freaks of nature can't maintain if you're just loading up coke and mommas pasta into it day over day for 20 years.

Ovechkin was better at age 36 than Crosby has been this season (age 36). Ovie had 50 goals and 90 points when he was 36.

Am I on the Pens board or some shit?

 

[Devil Dancer]

And don't forget Ovie was in the Hart discussion this time last season, just one year ago, before he (and the entire team) fell off in the back half of the season. He was a goddamn monster in December of 2022.

 

[twabby]

Well, you also would have traded Tom Wilson, so who is really listening to you?

I mean Tom Wilson is currently a 15th percentile player, and his new deal doesn't kick in until next season. I'm feeling pretty good about my stance on that particular matter!

Though I guess as a fan of a rival organization I think Pittsburgh should ink Jake Guentzel to an 8 year deal.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I mean Tom Wilson is currently a 15th percentile player, and his new deal doesn't kick in until next season. I'm feeling pretty good about my stance on that particular matter!

Though I guess as a fan of a rival organization I think Pittsburgh should ink Jake Guentzel to an 8 year deal.

Your stance is what exactly? You think his entire deal is a bust? You think he’s going to have a bad year or two at the end? We all know his last few years will likely be challenging just like almost any player at the 35+ age. I mean damn….I know he has this massive cap destroying AAV of $6.5 per and all….

What IS your stance?

 

[Roshi]

I'd hesitate to re-sign Guentzel if I were Pittsburgh. He's a fine player but he's going to get a ton as a UFA and Pittsburgh would be wise to shore up the rest of their team instead of signing an aging, likely-to-decline winger to a way too long deal.

Hey, we have cap space and a touch for ex Pens players…

Guentzel-Kuznetsov-Wilson incoming.

 

[twabby]

Your stance is what exactly? You think his entire deal is a bust? You think he’s going to have a bad year or two at the end? We all know his last few years will likely be challenging just like almost any player at the 35+ age. I mean damn….I know he has this massive cap destroying AAV of $6.5 per and all….

What IS your stance?

Yeah as a whole I think the contract is going to be a regrettable mistake. Both from the value of the contract itself and from not taking the alternative route of cashing in on Wilson and getting a blue chip prospect and/or a high draft pick in return to help fuel the rebuild/retool.

At the time of signing I thought a few of his years at the beginning may have provided $6.5M of value but by the time the team was competitive again (3-4 years maybe?) he was likely going to be a drag. It turns out even that may have been a bit optimistic. He's playing at a 15th percentile clip this year after being underwater last year as well so it's fair to speculate about how effective he's going to be even at the beginning of his contract. After all many other players of his ilk begin falling apart at this age, and that's without coming off a significant injury.

I suggested a Wilson for Byfield swap this past offseason and I stand by that being something LA probably would have done given their contention window and their glut of centers and their perceived lack of toughness. Looking right now that would have been a great swap for DC. The problem was GMBM never even considered moving Wilson so no creative moves like this could even be explored.

And now we're sitting here saying "what can GMBM possibly do? The trade market has dried up and it takes 2 to tango!" Well yeah if you're not willing to give up Wilson and look at creative options to rebuild the top 6 this is the position they were destined to be in. The argument that GMBM hasn't had any good options to retool the roster falls on deaf ears when an obvious solution was always there.

 

[AlexModvechkin8]

I understand Tom may not have great fancies but his I-enjoy-watching-him-play-hockey/60 is one of the highest in the league and that’s enough for me.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Yeah as a whole I think the contract is going to be a regrettable mistake. Both from the value of the contract itself and from not taking the alternative route of cashing in on Wilson and getting a blue chip prospect and/or a high draft pick in return to help fuel the rebuild/retool.

At the time of signing I thought a few of his years at the beginning may have provided $6.5M of value but by the time the team was competitive again (3-4 years maybe?) he was likely going to be a drag. It turns out even that may have been a bit optimistic. He's playing at a 15th percentile clip this year after being underwater last year as well so it's fair to speculate about how effective he's going to be even at the beginning of his contract. After all many other players of his ilk begin falling apart at this age, and that's without coming off a significant injury.

I suggested a Wilson for Byfield swap this past offseason and I stand by that being something LA probably would have done given their contention window and their glut of centers and their perceived lack of toughness. Looking right now that would have been a great swap for DC. The problem was GMBM never even considered moving Wilson so no creative moves like this could even be explored.

And now we're sitting here saying "what can GMBM possibly do? The trade market has dried up and it takes 2 to tango!" Well yeah if you're not willing to give up Wilson and look at creative options to rebuild the top 6 this is the position they were destined to be in. The argument that GMBM hasn't had any good options to retool the roster falls on deaf ears when an obvious solution was always there.

Well the good thing is we have nothing but expensive vets with contracts winding down to ease your fears. You trade one very good heart and soul guy, even if he’s as valuable overall, it’s just a lateral move in the team structure. You wanted a deal that weakens you in some areas and strengthens you in others. Sadly we have no areas of strength to deal from.

 

[twabby]

I understand Tom may not have great fancies but his I-enjoy-watching-him-play-hockey/60 is one of the highest in the league and that’s enough for me.

I can't argue against this and it's the same reason why I'm fine with Ovechkin's contract. I just wish others would justify Wilson's contract with this line of reasoning instead of saying he's good.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I can't argue against this and it's the same reason why I'm fine with Ovechkin's contract. I just wish others would justify Wilson's contract with this line of reasoning instead of saying he's good.

Well, he is a good hockey player. You just don’t value what he brings while the Pros do.

 

[g00n]

2 time All Star sucks.

All hail the mighty spreadsheet.

 

[trick9]

I understand Tom may not have great fancies but his I-enjoy-watching-him-play-hockey/60 is one of the highest in the league and that’s enough for me.

I'm on the same boat.

This is in many ways a boring ass team to watch some nights and it's likely only going to get worse before we are back to being young team that plays exciting hockey. If there is a one player that can still get me off my seat in 43 then i'm not going to complain about that contract even though i know that in 5 years it might not look pretty. Draft picks are great currency down the line but i'd still like to enjoy watching this team in the process so rather see us acquire those draft picks by trading some other players down the line.

 

[tycoonheart]

Just took a look at the metro standings. What an absolute mess.

 

[Acallabeth]

2 time All Star sucks.

All hail the mighty spreadsheet.

Opinions on Wilson aren't divided into 'he sucks' and 'signing him was the best possible decision'. It's possible to love Tom and believe his hypothetical trade last year could improve the team at the same time... while not necessarily even costing us Wilson, as he could very much sign here for the same contract after a playoff campaign.

 

[twabby]

Tom Wilson is on pace for 41 points this year despite heavy power play usage, which puts him. And his defensive metrics are rather pedestrian.

He got his all star bid this year because of name recognition and flair. Which is fine! It's an exhibition. But being an all star doesn't mean he's actually had a good year. Strome, Mantha, and Protas all have been significantly better players this year.

Which brings me to my next point: Tom Wilson's perceived value is still through the roof and maybe the window to trade him isn't closed!

 

[Kuz]

I'm on the same boat.

This is in many ways a boring ass team to watch some nights and it's likely only going to get worse before we are back to being young team that plays exciting hockey. If there is a one player that can still get me off my seat in 43 then i'm not going to complain about that contract even though i know that in 5 years it might not look pretty. Draft picks are great currency down the line but i'd still like to enjoy watching this team in the process so rather see us acquire those draft picks by trading some other players down the line.

He have gotten better lately which is normal that it takes time after an injury like that. Still its questionable if his on ice delievery will be worth it over that contract. Hopefully his off ice is bringing the value.

I love Wilson, but I feel we are seeing less and less of him dominating games with his physicality and he isnt that noticeable any longer. There is not the same fear factor by his opponents. Also his production is down. The last 5 years before this one he have 0,70 ppg-0,63 ppg. This year he have 0,50 ppg and his defensive stats this year and last are way down from earlier.

Some of this can probably be put on the team being worse overall and he get a little bit dragged down by that. Still I question the value Caps will get back on that contract and if it will be an anchor for many years.

We all loved Backstrom aswell and felt he deserved the contract, but a lot of people where happy with his LTIR as he just wasnt close to what he once was and a 9 mill player.

Still Wilson is a good player for now, but is he a 6,5 mill player today? Maybe. Is he a 6,5 mill player in 2-3 years will be even more doubtfull.

 

[g00n]

Tom Wilson is on pace for 41 points this year despite heavy power play usage, which puts him. And his defensive metrics are rather pedestrian.

He got his all star bid this year because of name recognition and flair. Which is fine! It's an exhibition. But being an all star doesn't mean he's actually had a good year. Strome, Mantha, and Protas all have been significantly better players this year.

Which brings me to my next point: Tom Wilson's perceived value is still through the roof and maybe the window to trade him isn't closed!

What a disingenuous post.

His point total is what it is because he's on a line with Ovie and Ovie isn't scoring, and neither is the PP. TW has 11 goals and is on about a 28 goal pace despite recovering from a major injury within the last year.

Every time the Caps play on national tv everyone gushes about how every team would love to have a guy like TW but they don't exist.

People like you who only see that as a trade opportunity are just biased against his style of play. You want people to be honest about enjoying watching him despite fancy stats that don't move the needle for YOU, then let's be honest about your own biases, too.

 

[twabby]

What a disingenuous post.

His point total is what it is because he's on a line with Ovie and Ovie isn't scoring, and neither is the PP. TW has 11 goals and is on about a 28 goal pace despite recovering from a major injury within the last year.

Every time the Caps play on national tv everyone gushes about how every team would love to have a guy like TW but they don't exist.

People like you who only see that as a trade opportunity are just biased against his style of play. You want people to be honest about enjoying watching him despite fancy stats that don't move the needle for YOU, then let's be honest about your own biases, too.



Yes but that's not an opinion that's worth taking seriously. Sorry. It's video game logic.

You'd hope a player that was just signed to a 7 year extension worth $6.5 million a year could elevate his teammates and not be wholly reliant on them. That's a lot of money for a complementary player, especially when the trade alternative likely could have brought in a true star player.

Yes everyone gushes about him, even more reason to trade him. I know teams would love to have him, even more reason to trade him. The Capitals could have started a bidding war with the whole league being interested but MacLellan chose not to, which I think will set the team back.

I'm not trying to convince anyone to hate him or to want to trade him if they like him. I'm trying to convince people that a trade would be best if the #1 priority is to see the team win. That doesn't have to be your #1 priority of course. Different people watch sports for different reasons.

 

[pman25]

I think it’s kinda funny that Tom Wilson busted his nose going for a revenge hit on Laferriere

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

You'd hope a player that was just signed to a 7 year extension worth $6.5 million a year could elevate his teammates and not be wholly reliant on them. That's a lot of money for a complementary player, especially when the trade alternative likely could have brought in a true star player.

Yes everyone gushes about him, even more reason to trade him. I know teams would love to have him, even more reason to trade him. The Capitals could have started a bidding war with the whole league being interested but MacLellan chose not to, which I think will set the team back.

I'm not trying to convince anyone to hate him or to want to trade him if they like him. I'm trying to convince people that a trade would be best if the #1 priority is to see the team win. That doesn't have to be your #1 priority of course. Different people watch sports for different reasons.

lol what a load of shit. Tom Wilson a physical non-playmaking winger is supposed to elevate 38 year old Ovechkin with his fancy skills!?

He elevates his teammates, but in the way you despise…by stirring shit up and sticking up for them.

Their two best centers are better at scoring than setting up goals (and so is our 3rd, the 4th is a shit brick)…..so Wilson’s totals are off. Stick him with an elite playmaking center and watch him score 35….

 

[g00n]

You'd hope a player that was just signed to a 7 year extension worth $6.5 million a year could elevate his teammates and not be wholly reliant on them. That's a lot of money for a complementary player, especially when the trade alternative likely could have brought in a true star player.

Yes everyone gushes about him, even more reason to trade him. I know teams would love to have him, even more reason to trade him. The Capitals could have started a bidding war with the whole league being interested but MacLellan chose not to, which I think will set the team back.

I'm not trying to convince anyone to hate him or to want to trade him if they like him. I'm trying to convince people that a trade would be best if the #1 priority is to see the team win. That doesn't have to be your #1 priority of course. Different people watch sports for different reasons.

Don't break your back with that massive stretch.

 

[crazy8888]

You'd hope a player that was just signed to a 7 year extension worth $6.5 million a year could elevate his teammates and not be wholly reliant on them. That's a lot of money for a complementary player, especially when the trade alternative likely could have brought in a true star player.

Yes everyone gushes about him, even more reason to trade him. I know teams would love to have him, even more reason to trade him. The Capitals could have started a bidding war with the whole league being interested but MacLellan chose not to, which I think will set the team back.

I'm not trying to convince anyone to hate him or to want to trade him if they like him. I'm trying to convince people that a trade would be best if the #1 priority is to see the team win. That doesn't have to be your #1 priority of course. Different people watch sports for different reasons.

We live in a time when a player with career high of 87 points just signed a deal worth over $11M per year. This team has Mantha and Oshie on the roster making similar $ but Wilsons signing was a mistake?

I get your point in terms of trade value. Your right, there would be a bidding war. And very likely Caps would get either good picks or good prospects. But there is a reason why every team would want him. He is unique. So much so that most teams do not have a player like him. And we have him for the foreseeable future. For only $6.5M. And the cap keeps climbing.

Also, not sure where reliant on this team mates comment came from. He creates plenty of opportunities by himself. Kills penalties. Has the speed to play on top line. Sticks up for his teammates and puts fear into others players. If anything his team mates rely on him a heck of a lot. Ah shit, i think im doing that gushing thing you mentioned now.

 

[Neil Racki]

I HATE our schedule this year

No games Mon Tues Wed .. then 4 games in 6 days w b2b on sat and sun

Weekend should be cool w b2b vs Rangers with 1 at each venue

Real cool if you had tickets to both