Speculation: Caps Roster General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines etc) - 2022-23 Season Part 2: Regular Season

[Calicaps]

Did Nardella clear?

 

[twabby]

CMM wasn’t ready last year. It’s not like an EA game where guys can be judged on their overall rating - his possession might have been good but his finishing wasn’t, he needs to become faster, and he needs to be more consistent.

I’d rather he work out those kinks playing 20 mins a game in Hershey than 8 minutes a game in Washington, and sadly it doesn’t feel like he’s going to get much more than that still. He also should be playing at center, not wing.

Send CMM down for quality minutes, and rotate Protas and Snively (if he’s looked good) at 3/4LW.

Assuming Wilson is back during the year and Backstrom doesn’t return until nearer the playoffs, CMM I likely to get squeezed out anyway. Better to get him AHL reps while he can, no?

McMichael was plenty ready last year. The numbers bear it out, and plenty of experts suspect he is a player who will see big improvement this year along with aging curves.

I don’t buy that sending him to the AHL will do him any good. He’s already shown he can thrive in the AHL. Is there any data to support that him playing in Hershey will be good for his long term outlook? Because there is at least some data that the opposite might be true:

The AHL is a bad league for developing prospects

In fact, the NHL is much better.

infernalaccess.substack.com

I think it’s possible that Protas is a better player than CMM right now. They had comparable impacts last year. So if Protas wins the job over McMichael that’s fine. I would however caution that having a good preseason means next to nothing, otherwise we would have seen Hendrix Lapierre as a mainstay in last year’s lineup rather than just a feelgood 2 week story in October. Similarly, a “poor” preseason should mean next to nothing. CMM has played all of 30 minutes this season. Feel free to use this to judge whether he should be on the team or not. But I’d rather include last year’s 700+ minutes and a typically aging progression to help make that judgment rather than relying on a few games alongside a bunch of vets who are coasting.

 

[HecticGlow]

McMichael was plenty ready last year. The numbers bear it out, and plenty of experts suspect he is a player who will see big improvement this year along with aging curves.

I don’t buy that sending him to the AHL will do him any good. He’s already shown he can thrive in the AHL. Is there any data to support that him playing in Hershey will be good for his long term outlook? Because there is at least some data that the opposite might be true:

The AHL is a bad league for developing prospects

In fact, the NHL is much better.

infernalaccess.substack.com

I think it’s possible that Protas is a better player than CMM right now. They had comparable impacts last year. So if Protas wins the job over McMichael that’s fine. I would however caution that having a good preseason means next to nothing, otherwise we would have seen Hendrix Lapierre as a mainstay in last year’s lineup rather than just a feelgood 2 week story in October. Similarly, a “poor” preseason should mean next to nothing. CMM has played all of 30 minutes this season. Feel free to use this to judge whether he should be on the team or not. But I’d rather include last year’s 700+ minutes and a typically aging progression to help make that judgment rather than relying on a few games alongside a bunch of vets who are coasting.

Except CMM was not playing the way coaches wanted him to, in the main, and that’s why his numbers were so limited. If he’s an unadulterated, proven 2LW there’s no reason for the coaches to play him 8 minutes a game. Do you really think he’s better playing 8 mins a night in the NHL, when not in the press box, or 20 minutes in the AHL where the coaching staff can teach him the behaviours and consistency Laviolette is looking for? It’s not about whether AHL or NHL is better for him developmentally, but whether playing somewhere is better than barely playing at all.

He went 52 games last year without a point, and only 16 games with at least one point. Nine goals and nine assists in 68 games. Sorry if I consider production to be as relevant a part of a scoring forward’s performance as their possession stats.

If he’s ready, great. But he should prove he’s ready and earn that position, not spend a second year stuck in a middle ground of being too good for the AHL and not quite good enough to play his role in the NHL.

The fact that the coaching staff have said publicly he’s better at center, and yet all indications are he’s headed for the wing again, says a lot.

 

[hockeykicker]

Did Nardella clear?

We find out at 2pm

 

[Ridley Simon]

Except CMM was not playing the way coaches wanted him to, in the main, and that’s why his numbers were so limited. If he’s an unadulterated, proven 2LW there’s no reason for the coaches to play him 8 minutes a game. Do you really think he’s better playing 8 mins a night in the NHL, when not in the press box, or 20 minutes in the AHL where the coaching staff can teach him the behaviours and consistency Laviolette is looking for? It’s not about whether AHL or NHL is better for him developmentally, but whether playing somewhere is better than barely playing at all.

He went 52 games last year without a point, and only 16 games with at least one point. Nine goals and nine assists in 68 games. Sorry if I consider production to be as relevant a part of a scoring forward’s performance as their possession stats.

If he’s ready, great. But he should prove he’s ready and earn that position, not spend a second year stuck in a middle ground of being too good for the AHL and not quite good enough to play his role in the NHL.

The fact that the coaching staff have said publicly he’s better at center, and yet all indications are he’s headed for the wing again, says a lot.

I wonder about this. If both Protas and CMM are looking at wings, perhaps it just means they have more than 4 centers to play that roll.

CMM is poor at faceoffs. Eller isn’t “poor”. So really it’s Eller taking faceoffs and then they play where they play. Either/or can be the “center” while game play is on.

Protas is same.

 

[g00n]

Remember it hasn't even been a year since his first NHL goal. He's got 69 total NHL games and he's 21 years old. He might be another 2yrs away from being a serious impact player.

I think people shitting on him are wrong, and people in love with his fancy stats (more than the player himself) are also likely wrong.

 

[kicksavedave]

Did Nardella clear?

Forwards Beck Malenstyn and Garrett Pilon; defensemen Gabriel Carlsson, Bobby Nardella and Dylan McIlrath; and goalie Zach Fucale cleared waivers and were loaned to Hershey, the Capitals’ American Hockey League affiliate. The Bears’ training camp started Monday.

 

[twabby]

Except CMM was not playing the way coaches wanted him to, in the main, and that’s why his numbers were so limited. If he’s an unadulterated, proven 2LW there’s no reason for the coaches to play him 8 minutes a game. Do you really think he’s better playing 8 mins a night in the NHL, when not in the press box, or 20 minutes in the AHL where the coaching staff can teach him the behaviours and consistency Laviolette is looking for? It’s not about whether AHL or NHL is better for him developmentally, but whether playing somewhere is better than barely playing at all.

He went 52 games last year without a point, and only 16 games with at least one point. Nine goals and nine assists in 68 games. Sorry if I consider production to be as relevant a part of a scoring forward’s performance as their possession stats.

If he’s ready, great. But he should prove he’s ready and earn that position, not spend a second year stuck in a middle ground of being too good for the AHL and not quite good enough to play his role in the NHL.

The fact that the coaching staff have said publicly he’s better at center, and yet all indications are he’s headed for the wing again, says a lot.

Whether or not the coaches played him is a different question than whether he was ready or not. The coaches also played a very clearly overmatched Martin Fehervary top 4 minutes despite months of evidence showing he was overwhelmed in that role. The coaches can make and have made mistakes.

I think McMichael is best suited for the NHL. If the only options are going to be 20 minutes in the AHL or 8 minutes in the NHL (when he's not eating nachos) I think I'd rather just trade him for a roster upgrade, preferably at 1LD. But for now I think both CMM and Protas should get regular NHL time, and then when Wilson comes back they should decide what to do with them. There will probably be some other injuries anyways.

McMichael produced more than Oshie, Backstrom, and Johansson last year so I don't really buy his production being a black eye. His defensive impacts were also better than these guys, so again it's tough for me to buy that CMM hasn't earned a spot especially over Johansson who is simply along for the ride and has no more room for improvement.

I'd play CMM at 3C and have Eller at 4LW. That way they still have two penalty killing centers in the lineup. Johansson is perfectly suited to be the healthy scratch. He can play on any line in a pinch, though isn't a great permanent option anywhere.

 

[kicksavedave]

About Protas:


He worked with a skating coach (unsure why every single NHL player isn't doing this, why is this "news" but whatever)... it paid off.

Protas’s skating has improved in part because he has gotten stronger. He has gained 10 pounds since last season and is 35 pounds heavier than he was on draft day.

He was already tall, but adding 35 lbs since draft day, woof, that's beefing up. He can also play L, R or C and doesn't care at all which one. He's got to be on the roster.

 

[kicksavedave]

Whether or not the coaches played him is a different question than whether he was ready or not. The coaches also played a very clearly overmatched Martin Fehervary top 4 minutes despite months of evidence showing he was overwhelmed in that role. The coaches can make and have made mistakes.

I think McMichael is best suited for the NHL. If the only options are going to be 20 minutes in the AHL or 8 minutes in the NHL (when he's not eating nachos) I think I'd rather just trade him for a roster upgrade, preferably at 1LD. But for now I think both CMM and Protas should get regular NHL time, and then when Wilson comes back they should decide then what to do with them. There will probably be some other injuries anyways.

McMichael produced more than Oshie, Backstrom, and Johansson last year so I don't really buy his production being a black eye. His defensive impacts were also better than these guys, so again it's tough for me to buy that CMM hasn't earned a spot especially over Johansson who is simply along for the ride and has no more room for improvement.

I think the hidden part that some people may not be seeing about CMM is likely his NHL level endurance simply wasn't there. It could very well explain why he put up very good fancies then got benched in the 3rd period a lot. The idea that he wasn't at NHL level endurance is also shared with Protas based on this quote:

All the muscle Protas has gained is good for his game. Last year, he said, he was getting tired physically and mentally after 10 to 12 minutes of ice time. Now, he feels more equipped to handle more minutes.

Point is that it may not have been that CMM wasn't playing the game PL wanted, it may simply have been that he couldn't sustain it for 18 mins like the other top forwards with experience could. Meaning he wasn't ready for full NHL duty, but it wasn't his game that wasn't ready, it was his legs... his wind... his strength. Vince Lombardi once said "fatigue makes cowards of all men" and anyone who has played any sport like hockey knows you can't go all out on every shift all game, but the top players in the league are also the most fit, endurance wise.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

McMichael was plenty ready last year. The numbers bear it out, and plenty of experts suspect he is a player who will see big improvement this year along with aging curves.

I don’t buy that sending him to the AHL will do him any good. He’s already shown he can thrive in the AHL. Is there any data to support that him playing in Hershey will be good for his long term outlook? Because there is at least some data that the opposite might be true:

The AHL is a bad league for developing prospects

In fact, the NHL is much better.

infernalaccess.substack.com

I think it’s possible that Protas is a better player than CMM right now. They had comparable impacts last year. So if Protas wins the job over McMichael that’s fine. I would however caution that having a good preseason means next to nothing, otherwise we would have seen Hendrix Lapierre as a mainstay in last year’s lineup rather than just a feelgood 2 week story in October. Similarly, a “poor” preseason should mean next to nothing. CMM has played all of 30 minutes this season. Feel free to use this to judge whether he should be on the team or not. But I’d rather include last year’s 700+ minutes and a typically aging progression to help make that judgment rather than relying on a few games alongside a bunch of vets who are coasting.

You disagree with the Pros and many who saw him play regularly last year, so keep holding that candle. He was IMO at a minimum physically unready for a full load at the NHL-level last year.

Now you’re trying to say (essentially) his pre-season play doesn’t matter because he’s playing with coasting vets?

Lol..you should NEVER be allowed near any decision-makers in Caps hockey.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Whether or not the coaches played him is a different question than whether he was ready or not. The coaches also played a very clearly overmatched Martin Fehervary top 4 minutes despite months of evidence showing he was overwhelmed in that role. The coaches can make and have made mistakes.

I think McMichael is best suited for the NHL. If the only options are going to be 20 minutes in the AHL or 8 minutes in the NHL (when he's not eating nachos) I think I'd rather just trade him for a roster upgrade, preferably at 1LD. But for now I think both CMM and Protas should get regular NHL time, and then when Wilson comes back they should decide what to do with them. There will probably be some other injuries anyways.

McMichael produced more than Oshie, Backstrom, and Johansson last year so I don't really buy his production being a black eye. His defensive impacts were also better than these guys, so again it's tough for me to buy that CMM hasn't earned a spot especially over Johansson who is simply along for the ride and has no more room for improvement.

I'd play CMM at 3C and have Eller at 4LW. That way they still have two penalty killing centers in the lineup. Johansson is perfectly suited to be the healthy scratch. He can play on any line in a pinch, though isn't a great permanent option anywhere.

I’ve mentioned this before….he wasn’t physically overmatched, so they let him experience his growing pains. Experience I expect will pay off.

He could skate with anyone and he could bang…..two basic things on the defensive side of the ice that CMM could not bring to the table last year. Fever was also already a year behind as the team said he was NHL-ready 2 seasons ago.

you say mistake, I say design….

I also do not get the logic of trading him away if he can’t make more of an impact right now. Dude is young and he’s a year ahead of typical development pace. If a Superstar is coming back, sign me up, but otherwise I keep him unless I have an offer I can’t refuse.

 

[twabby]

You disagree with the Pros and many who saw him play regularly last year, so keep holding that candle. He was IMO at a minimum physically unready for a full load at the NHL-level last year.

Now you’re trying to say (essentially) his pre-season play doesn’t matter because he’s playing with coasting vets?

Lol..you should NEVER be allowed near any decision-makers in Caps hockey.

I'm saying that if we're going to judge whether a player should make the team out of camp we should maybe consider their prior body of work as well, otherwise I'm not sure that Alex Ovechkin would have made the team out of camp very often.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I'm saying that if we're going to judge whether a player should make the team out of camp we should maybe consider their prior body of work as well, otherwise I'm not sure that Alex Ovechkin would have made the team out of camp very often.

His body of work last year has next to no impact on the evaluation of his play as It pertains to making the team today. The Ovechkin comp is laughable.

Again, more gifting roster spots mentality…..making an NHL team is hard. Earn your way.

 

[g00n]

I'm saying that if we're going to judge whether a player should make the team out of camp we should maybe consider their prior body of work as well, otherwise I'm not sure that Alex Ovechkin would have made the team out of camp very often.

Ovie at 21 (2006):

CMM:

Ovie is 3 inches taller but was 30lbs heavier than CMM at the same age. CMM says he put on 5lbs this offseason so it's a start, but he probably needs another 10lbs of muscle or more in the next year or two.

Connor McMichael gained five pounds over offseason and felt the positive effects in preseason game against Sabres

The Washington Capitals kicked off their 2022-23 preseason at Capital One Arena with an overtime loss to the Buffalo Sabres. Skating as…

russianmachineneverbreaks.com

It's great he's getting stronger but I think he may be off base here. More weight means more momentum and more force. The issue is acceleration and how your joints and tendons handle the change.

If he works his lower body and core as hard as anything else then adding more muscle should only make him faster.

It sounds like he's making excuses for not training in the future. Sorry bud, but you don't just put in a few months of weight training and that's it You have to keep doing it.

 

[twabby]

I’ve mentioned this before….he wasn’t physically overmatched, so they let him experience his growing pains. Experience I expect will pay off.

He could skate with anyone and he could bang…..two basic things on the defensive side of the ice that CMM could not bring to the table last year.

you say mistake, I say design….

Of course his growing pains severely impacted the team, so if this was the design then perhaps the design was flawed.

Ovie at 21 (2006):

View attachment 590786

CMM:

View attachment 590787


Ovie is 3 inches taller but was 30lbs heavier than CMM at the same age. CMM says he put on 5lbs this offseason so it's a start, but he probably needs another 10lbs of muscle or more in the next year or two.

Connor McMichael gained five pounds over offseason and felt the positive effects in preseason game against Sabres

The Washington Capitals kicked off their 2022-23 preseason at Capital One Arena with an overtime loss to the Buffalo Sabres. Skating as…

russianmachineneverbreaks.com

View attachment 590789

It's great he's getting stronger but I think he may be off base here. More weight means more momentum and more force. The issue is acceleration and how your joints and tendons handle the change.

If he works his lower body and core as hard as anything else then adding more muscle should only make him faster.

I guess I just don't care about stylistic elements like skating, physicality, size, and strength if they don't translate to impacting the scoreboard. Fehervary certainly has elements that make you think he's a special player, but then you look at the numbers and realize how much of a drain he really was for the majority of last season.

Similarly McMichael certainly isn't a physically imposing player, but then you look at the numbers and see that he acquitted himself very well for a 20-21 year old rookie. I don't think that adding a few pounds of muscle and winning a few more board battles is his ticket to improvement.

 

[g00n]

Yes clearly strength and speed are overrated when it comes to augmenting skill.

Totally.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Of course his growing pains severely impacted the team, so if this was the design then perhaps the design was flawed.


I guess I just don't care about stylistic elements like skating, physicality, size, and strength if they don't translate to impacting the scoreboard. Fehervary certainly has elements that make you think he's a special player, but then you look at the numbers and realize how much of a drain he really was for the majority of last season.

that you don’t understand how being physically unready negatively impacts a player’s game is unsurprising. You undervalue something therefor you discount it.

Fever didn‘t hurt this team’s chances near as bad as a shaky goaltending tandem did.

They made an investment in Fever with that top-pair duty last year. We‘ll see if it pays off like I hope and expect.

Yes clearly strength and speed are overrated when it comes to augmenting skill.

Totally.

Flabbergasting……

 

[Hivemind]

Except CMM was not playing the way coaches wanted him to, in the main, and that’s why his numbers were so limited. If he’s an unadulterated, proven 2LW there’s no reason for the coaches to play him 8 minutes a game. Do you really think he’s better playing 8 mins a night in the NHL, when not in the press box, or 20 minutes in the AHL where the coaching staff can teach him the behaviours and consistency Laviolette is looking for? It’s not about whether AHL or NHL is better for him developmentally, but whether playing somewhere is better than barely playing at all.

He went 52 games last year without a point, and only 16 games with at least one point. Nine goals and nine assists in 68 games. Sorry if I consider production to be as relevant a part of a scoring forward’s performance as their possession stats.

If he’s ready, great. But he should prove he’s ready and earn that position, not spend a second year stuck in a middle ground of being too good for the AHL and not quite good enough to play his role in the NHL.

The fact that the coaching staff have said publicly he’s better at center, and yet all indications are he’s headed for the wing again, says a lot.

This is the same coaching staff that played Carl Hagelin more minutes after he scored against his own team in the same game than they did CMM, who had scored a goal on the proper half of the ice. You're putting a ton of faith in their decisions, to the point of essentially relying on an appeal-to-authority argument. Coaches can have their own biases. Coaches can make mistakes. Not every decision the coaches make is going to be foolproof.

It's pretty easy to go 52 individual games without a point when the coach only plays you 5-10 minutes with zero powerplay time. Marcus Johansson saw substantially more ice time (including powerplay time) and had 45 games without a point scored. Even first liners with consistent powerplay usage don't get points in half of their games. TJ Oshie didn't have points in 25 of his 44 games last year.

 

[g00n]

This is the same coaching staff that played Carl Hagelin more minutes after he scored against his own team in the same game than they did CMM, who had scored a goal on the proper half of the ice. You're putting a ton of faith in their decisions, to the point of essentially relying on an appeal-to-authority argument. Coaches can have their own biases. Coaches can make mistakes. Not every decision the coaches make is going to be foolproof.

"A coach did something I don't understand or agree with, therefore everything they do is probably wrong.

But these stats about imaginary goals are always right."

 

[Calicaps]

Ovie at 21 (2006):

View attachment 590786

CMM:

View attachment 590787


Ovie is 3 inches taller but was 30lbs heavier than CMM at the same age. CMM says he put on 5lbs this offseason so it's a start, but he probably needs another 10lbs of muscle or more in the next year or two.

Connor McMichael gained five pounds over offseason and felt the positive effects in preseason game against Sabres

The Washington Capitals kicked off their 2022-23 preseason at Capital One Arena with an overtime loss to the Buffalo Sabres. Skating as…

russianmachineneverbreaks.com

View attachment 590789

It's great he's getting stronger but I think he may be off base here. More weight means more momentum and more force. The issue is acceleration and how your joints and tendons handle the change.

If he works his lower body and core as hard as anything else then adding more muscle should only make him faster.

It sounds like he's making excuses for not training in the future. Sorry bud, but you don't just put in a few months of weight training and that's it You have to keep doing it.

All of this, plus Ovie is a comparison for precisely no one. When he was a rookie, Zubrus already was calling him a freak of nature. He's an exceedingly rare combo of skill and insane strength/force. And when he was younger, also speed. Setting Ovie as the bar for any kid trying to make the bigs is beyond unfair.

I agree with folks who are saying McMike would probably benefit most from a full year of all-situations 1/2C play in Hershey with occasional call-ups to test his progress. He needs a full-time role playing against men, and he's not yet ready to do that in the NHL. That's not a knock on him. It's just the growth process.

 

[twabby]

that you don’t understand how being physically unready negatively impacts a player’s game is unsurprising. You undervalue something therefor you discount it.

Fever didn‘t hurt this team’s chances near as bad as a shaky goaltending tandem did.

They made an investment in Fever with that top-pair duty last year. We‘ll see if it pays off like I hope and expect.


Flabbergasting……

The assumption is that McMichael was physically unready last season. I don't really buy that, otherwise his impacts would have probably been much worse than they were last year. Because I do agree, you need some level of physical attributes in order to be effective.

But assuming he wasn't physically ready last year, it would be even more boneheaded to deny him an opportunity this year because he was able to put up good impacts last year despite not being physically ready. So imagine how good he'll be this year when he is actually ready!

 

[Ridley Simon]

The assumption is that McMichael was physically unready last season. I don't really buy that, otherwise his impacts would have probably been much worse than they were last year. Because I do agree, you need some level of physical attributes in order to be effective.

But assuming he wasn't physically ready last year, it would be even more boneheaded to deny him an opportunity this year because he was able to put up good impacts last year despite not being physically ready. So imagine how good he'll be this year when he is actually ready!

I give it to you twabs, you are good at spinning!

 

[Calicaps]

Because I do agree, you need some level of physical attributes in order to be effective.

In pro sports... yeah probably.

 

[zappa4ever]

McMic's biggest problems:
Mediocre size at 6'0" 180
Mediocre strength
Mediocre speed

He better be going the Jay Beagle route of making it:
- Work harder than everyone
- Study harder than everyone
- Repeat.
(and Jay had good size at 6'3" to help)

Let's not pretend McMic's REAL Stats of 68GP 9g 9a is anything to write home about, think he had about 3 clean goals out of the 9? double deflections, flubs, own goals, I think only his 1st goal was anything close to a snipe

He's a Cap. I hope he makes it. I hope he doesn't think AHL success translates to NHL success