Salary Cap: Cap Situation Entering Free Agency

[18leafsfan18]

Other teams won playoff rounds and didn't look like they were playing exhibition games at the most important times. More excuses

Not making excuses at all. Did you even read my post. That's what I have to say things like (not proclaiming anything).

They haven't got it done and Dubas is sticking to his guns and going for it, it's worked before on a number or examples and it's blown up in others.

You could at least give the guy credit for sticking with what his vision is and basically admitting he will be gone if they fail again.

 

[18leafsfan18]

Dubas: The criticism is fair. I don’t know the exact number off of the top of my head. I think Pittsburgh, between 2007-2010, had a similar breakdown. I don’t think it was all forwards”

This is an issue as well. As soon as we signed Tavares, we didn’t need to pay 4 forwards half the cap.

Nylander + Marner = 18 mil.
4 wingers at 5 million = 20.

Sorry Marner may be a great passer but Matthews is still going to score 40 goals without him and flanked by 2 5 mil wingers.

Or we find a top pairing D and goalie instead of an 11 mil winger.

I had a similar argument before, but IMO marner has proven that he is a guy that will help everyone production he plays with.

Guys has had some seriously great seasons, just needs to figure out playoffs unfortunately.

 

[18leafsfan18]

And I will counter with the fatal flaw in your argument is that the GM is under no obligation to acquiesce to the "wants" of players while negotiating contracts.

Though that seems lost on both the current GM and many of his supporters.

So the way all other GMs work is they just te the player the contract and there is no discussion back from the players side ?

He may be the only GM in the history of sport who never has any choice in anything he does.
Seems like a pretty easy gig.

Not sure where this information is from ?

 

[egd27]

So the way all other GMs work is they just te the player the contract and there is no discussion back from the players side ?



Not sure where this information is from ?

not what I said at all.

however, the GM does have the upper hand in rfa negotiations and must use that to the teams advantage

 

[Smif]

Could see them trading or signing a goalie for about 3 million a year, signing a Granlund in the low 3's, signing a third liner in the low 2's and then taking a shot on some guy like Galchenyuk or Bunting for under a million to be in the top 6.

Probably enter the year with Kerfoot at 3c.

I'm really hoping we add a 3C to play between Kerfoot and someone with some grit. I like Kerfoot remaining on the team to fill in at C when injuries happen as he can play up and down the lineup. He's our utility guy. I just don't love him as a full-time C, game in, game out.

 

[justashadowof]

After the dust has settled from another disappointing playoff defeat, I'm indirectly happy to see the GM double down on the team for 2021-22. Yes, I think any hockey man worth his salt can see that a major change is what needs to happen here if your aspirations go beyond playoff qualification. In lieu of that let's sit back sipping our steaming cup of joe as the rainwater continues to pour through the ceiling of our beautiful house. It's going to be a wild ride.

I believe, maybe it'll prove to be wrong, that Toronto is no longer the hot destination for seasoned UFA vets. Doubtless signings will happen again to fill out the roster but the GM may be in tight to find serviceable bodies this time around.

 

[The Masters]

You don't get it, we have half the fan base pretending we were one shot away from winning the Cup. That's the only explanation why they keep talking about how close it was when we lost to Montreal

No one is denying it took special effort to lose in the first round again after being up 3:1.



1st place in the North
Franchise record for points
First 1st all star since Salming
Found a goalie off the scrap heap
fixed our defensive struggles
needed to win one of 2 OT games to advance and didn't

^^^

Is this really something to be proud of? 1st place in the North means nothing. Franchise record in points?Was that the year Vegas got more points than we did? 1st all star since Salming? You signed enough $10M + contracts you're bound to get all star player at one point..


Found a goalie off the scrap heap - Apparently, his name is XXXX
fixed our defensive struggles - We are still mediocre at best. Our forwards can't def to save their life and our D is meh. What we fixed and how?


needed to win one of 2 OT games to advance and didn't <---- This should tell you all you need to know about the chockers you have on this team. You need to finish 4 series, we can't finish one even if we are up 3:1, yet it somehow translates to almost winning the Cup because we were so close to beating MTL in the first round.


Half the board is drinking Editor in Leaf cool-aid. This time we can look back at Tampa, they sucked at one point in the past just like we do now, so we are exactly like TB !


The same basic b. template used when we celebrated after STL won the Cup. Look at them, they sucked the Leaf's way prior to winning the Cup, we got it !

Seems like excuses.
The problem is the Leafs will have an ever tougher time this year with original divisions back. Our playoff play is night and day vs the regular season (I will say that reffing doesnt help) but thats the reality.

Boston, Tampa, Florida, Montreal, Toronto will all be in a dog fight for 4 spots. Then you got the Sens just looking to spoil wins.

 

[18leafsfan18]

not what I said at all.

however, the GM does have the upper hand in rfa negotiations and must use that to the teams advantage

Absolutely I can agree, but it's pretty obvious the player has a massive say in what happens.

 

[LeafGrief]

Hey look another Dubas thread lol

 

[ShaneFalco]

Not making excuses at all. Did you even read my post. That's what I have to say things like (not proclaiming anything).

They haven't got it done and Dubas is sticking to his guns and going for it, it's worked before on a number or examples and it's blown up in others.

You could at least give the guy credit for sticking with what his vision is and basically admitting he will be gone if they fail again.

No a GM considers all options. not just his own template that's failed for years. Especially a guy with no previous experience. At the very least, maybe have some balls for once and say you'll examine all options instead of coming out and making sure the core is all comfy going into next year

 

[ULF_55]

My God that's a terrible forward group.

LOL

It's really last year's line-up, with one change.

 

[PromisedLand]

Mikheyev-Matthews-Marner
Galchenyuk-Tavares-Nylander
Kerfoot-Wennberg-Simmonds
Engvall-Brooks-Spezza

Rielly-Brodie
Muzzin-Holl
Sandin-Dermott
Liljegren

Campbell
?????????

if leafs are going to have any success they will have to spread offense. 11 AAV guy doesn't need another 11 AAV guy

XXX-Matthews-XXX
XXX-Tavares-Nylander
Kerfoot-Wennberg-Marner

OR

XXX-Matthews-Nylander
XXX-Tavares-XXX
Kerfoot-Wennberg-Marner


whichever line is hot gets the most minutes; it has nothing to do with how much money someone makes.

 

[Oskar The Groucho]

$73,758,116 Cap Hit
$7,741,884 Cap Space

$11,634,000 Auston Matthews (24)
$11,000,000 John Tavares (31)
$10,893,000 Mitch Marner (24)
$6,962,366 William Nylander (25)
$3,500,000 Alexander Kerfoot (27)
$1,645,000 Ilya Mikheyev (27)
$1,250,000 Pierre Engvall (24)
$900,000 Wayne Simmonds (33)
$750,000 Joey Anderson (23)
$750,000 Jason Spezza (38)
$725,000 Adam Brooks (25)

$5,625,000 Jake Muzzin (32)
$5,000,000 Morgan Rielly (27)
$5,000,000 TJ Brodie (31)
$2,000,000 Justin Holl (29)
$1,500,000 Travis Dermott (24)
$894,663 Rasmus Sandin (21)
$863,333 Timothy Liljegren (22)

$1,650,000 Jack Campbell (29)

 

[egd27]

Absolutely I can agree, but it's pretty obvious the player has a massive say in what happens.

Certainly under Dubas' stewardship they do.

 

[ULF_55]

if leafs are going to have any success they will have to spread offense. 11 AAV guy doesn't need another 11 AAV guy

XXX-Matthews-XXX
XXX-Tavares-Nylander
Kerfoot-Wennberg-Marner

OR

XXX-Matthews-Nylander
XXX-Tavares-XXX
Kerfoot-Wennberg-Marner


whichever line is hot gets the most minutes; it has nothing to do with how much money someone makes.

I like your 3rd. line, and yes Tavares has experience with multiple medium level players with the Islanders.

My preference is Matthews and Nylander as both can shoot the puck, and Nylander can play either wing.

 

[Azail]

Certainly under Dubas' stewardship they do.

The Marner deal is not a great deal at all. He got everything he wanted, and is probably overpaid by about $1.5-$2mil/year.

I guess it comes down to the fact of whether the Leafs wanted to keep him or not, because he wasn't signing for less than he got with Toronto. As I recall the Leafs had to sign him before the season started as their was some funny business with the LTIR room as soon as the season started. Maybe Dubas should have let him sit that season or traded him away. In hindsight, we didn't do anything that season or any since, so maybe having him sit a year and signing him the next offseason for potentially cheaper would have been the play. I thought of that scenario at the time, but imagine if the Leafs were in a position to make a run, and they didn't have their 90pt player playing because of $1.5mil.

At this point, this is the core, and I am sure if they don't go on a run this season, there will probably be changes.

 

[18leafsfan18]

Certainly under Dubas' stewardship they do.

Players can walk or sit out or request out. To say they have no say in negotiations is silly.

I'm not arguing dubas leaned more player side or not

 

[18leafsfan18]

No a GM considers all options. not just his own template that's failed for years. Especially a guy with no previous experience. At the very least, maybe have some balls for once and say you'll examine all options instead of coming out and making sure the core is all comfy going into next year

Yeah I'm sure he look at zero other options.

No balls for not saying he's exploring all options. No bias here at all.

Guy is sticking to his guns and putting his job on the line, if that isn't balls I'm not sure what is. Usually GMs in that situation try to save their jobs, not go down with the ship

 

[ULF_55]

The Marner deal is not a great deal at all. He got everything he wanted, and is probably overpaid by about $1.5-$2mil/year.

I guess it comes down to the fact of whether the Leafs wanted to keep him or not, because he wasn't signing for less than he got with Toronto. As I recall the Leafs had to sign him before the season started as their was some funny business with the LTIR room as soon as the season started. Maybe Dubas should have let him sit that season or traded him away. In hindsight, we didn't do anything that season or any since, so maybe having him sit a year and signing him the next offseason for potentially cheaper would have been the play. I thought of that scenario at the time, but imagine if the Leafs were in a position to make a run, and they didn't have their 90pt player playing because of $1.5mil.

At this point, this is the core, and I am sure if they don't go on a run this season, there will probably be changes.

IIRC there was also the scenario where Leafs couldn't match an offer-sheet if it went into regular season and he was unsiqned.

 

[Gallagbi]

IIRC there was also the scenario where Leafs couldn't match an offer-sheet if it went into regular season and he was unsiqned.

Pretty sure we acquired an LTIR deal (Horton?) to protect us from that, so it wasn't an issue.

 

[ULF_55]

Pretty sure we acquired an LTIR deal (Horton?) to protect us from that, so it wasn't an issue.

Quite possibly, there was talk about Columbus being interested.

 

[18leafsfan18]

The Marner deal is not a great deal at all. He got everything he wanted, and is probably overpaid by about $1.5-$2mil/year.

I guess it comes down to the fact of whether the Leafs wanted to keep him or not, because he wasn't signing for less than he got with Toronto. As I recall the Leafs had to sign him before the season started as their was some funny business with the LTIR room as soon as the season started. Maybe Dubas should have let him sit that season or traded him away. In hindsight, we didn't do anything that season or any since, so maybe having him sit a year and signing him the next offseason for potentially cheaper would have been the play. I thought of that scenario at the time, but imagine if the Leafs were in a position to make a run, and they didn't have their 90pt player playing because of $1.5mil.

At this point, this is the core, and I am sure if they don't go on a run this season, there will probably be changes.

Basically zero chance a guy sits out a year and sticks around for the next season, let alone takes less. Makes zero sense.

Trade request would be in and everyone would complain Dubas didn't get anything for Marner when traded, because no team is going to line up a truckload of assets for a guy when the Leafs have no leverage.

Not saying the deal is good or bad, just discussing the "let a guy sit for a year" narritive

 

[egd27]

Players can walk or sit out or request out. To say they have no say in negotiations is silly.

I'm not arguing dubas leaned more player side or not

Again, I'm not suggesting they have no say, however the GM holds more leverage and is under no obligation to capitulate to a player's demands if it is not in team's best interest

The Marner deal is not a great deal at all. He got everything he wanted, and is probably overpaid by about $1.5-$2mil/year.

I guess it comes down to the fact of whether the Leafs wanted to keep him or not, because he wasn't signing for less than he got with Toronto. As I recall the Leafs had to sign him before the season started as their was some funny business with the LTIR room as soon as the season started. Maybe Dubas should have let him sit that season or traded him away. In hindsight, we didn't do anything that season or any since, so maybe having him sit a year and signing him the next offseason for potentially cheaper would have been the play. I thought of that scenario at the time, but imagine if the Leafs were in a position to make a run, and they didn't have their 90pt player playing because of $1.5mil.

At this point, this is the core, and I am sure if they don't go on a run this season, there will probably be changes.

Dubas had given JT $11M to set the new salary structure on the Leafs
He made a last minute deal after allowing WN to hold out, made him whole, and front loaded $10+M
Then he allowed Matthews to beat him for a 5 year deal, at the 2nd highest cap hit, with 93% in signing bonuses.
Followed by giving away a first to dump Marleau's $6M and took on Clarkson so he had $11M in cap ready to go.

By the time Marner negotiated it was too late for Dubas and Ferris just waited until training camp was about to start to get what they wanted.

The best analogy I can think of is trying to play poker with your hole cards showing to the rest of the table.

 

[18leafsfan18]

Again, I'm not suggesting they have no say, however the GM holds more leverage and is under no obligation to capitulate to a player's demands if it is not in team's best interest

It's a give and take, no deal is ever 1 sides requests and none of the other side.

Have you ever negotiated anything ?

 

[ShaneFalco]

Yeah I'm sure he look at zero other options.

No balls for not saying he's exploring all options. No bias here at all.

Guy is sticking to his guns and putting his job on the line, if that isn't balls I'm not sure what is. Usually GMs in that situation try to save their jobs, not go down with the ship

Meh to me the best GM's are willing to reflect, adapt, make changes and listen. Not go all in on a plan that has failed for years because they think they have a winning formula - but no killer instinct, no standing up for eachother, not starting on time, lack of grit, easy to play against (says their own players) - sounds like something that will easily turn around to me. Not

It's amazing how so many are ok with losing and no consequences. I guess that's why MLSE is so rich