Salary Cap: Cap Situation Entering Free Agency

[Arzak]

if leafs are going to have any success they will have to spread offense. 11 AAV guy doesn't need another 11 AAV guy

XXX-Matthews-XXX
XXX-Tavares-Nylander
Kerfoot-Wennberg-Marner

OR

XXX-Matthews-Nylander
XXX-Tavares-XXX
Kerfoot-Wennberg-Marner


whichever line is hot gets the most minutes; it has nothing to do with how much money someone makes.

This. I like the idea of seeing Marner without Matthews but you just don't get enough quality O-zone starts for 3 different lines.

You can't have any of them on your 3rd line. It would be a waste of talent and production . What's the point of the odd man out on the third line? His value will drop even more, making you less likely to get good return in a trade.

 

[Captain Crunch]

I'm still so confused on what people want him to do ?

Trade one of the big F for who ?

Just opens another hole.

For the first time in likely 10 seasons they are fairly solid on the back end and this is when everyone wants to blow it up ?

I know. It’s easy for me to say “should do this, should do that” when I won’t be fired or whatever. I guess I’m just going to have to lower my expectations, easier said than done, and see what happens.

 

[egd27]

So you agree, the walking away was not an option at all. Walking away in this context your are referring to Dubas walking away and forcing the player to come back ?

I do not agree with that at all

I think he probably should have let Nylander sit in hindsight. I didn't realize how weak it made Dubas look at the time

 

[Eternal Leaf]

I'm still so confused on what people want him to do ?

Trade one of the big F for who ?

Just opens another hole.

For the first time in likely 10 seasons they are fairly solid on the back end and this is when everyone wants to blow it up ?

It's not about the names, it's about the mindset.

Re-distribute the cap.

Keep two of Matthews, Tavares, and Marner.

Let's assume Marner is the one you want to trade. That's 10.903M in cap space. Trade him for a good forward in the 5-6M range and prospects if possible. No one is saying give him for free.

That leaves 5-6M for another top 6 forward or two quality 3rd liners.

It's not about specific names but the general mindset of re-distributing cap space in a flat cap world. Dubas is not even open to the idea and has now lost complementary pieces two years in a row. What's the point of treading water in a harder division? This is the same core that lost in a play-in round with proper divisional hockey. The team couldn't even get into the playoffs against an average Columbus team.

They now don't have Kapanen, Johnsson, Hyman, and Freddy (he's luckily not good). 3-4 of the team's players are going to be rookies/sophomores such as Liljegren, Sandin, Robertson, Anderson/Brooks. Maybe more. Plus, the team's starting goalie has never played a full regular season and Dubas is relying on bringing a 1B goalie to protect all of these newbies.

This is the team that's supposed to win multiple rounds? Dubas has to be more logical than this. He's a good GM and needs to use his common sense. They couldn't even handle Montreal after one injury. That's the depth of this team at full display. It's non-existent.

This team with fringe changes will get smoked by Tampa, Boston, and Florida. I hope not but it's inevitable. A couple of depth forwards and a 1B goalie won't do anything.

 

[myleafs]

We have no cap room and the entire team is the exact same minus Hyman. Nothing to be excited about. Yes we still have the offseason but Dubas has committed to this team and won't be making any moves.

incoming Thornton signing

 

[Gallagbi]

I do not agree with that at all

I think he probably should have let Nylander sit in hindsight. I didn't realize how weak it made Dubas look at the time

From all reports, Dubas didn't change his offer.

 

[myleafs]

Mikheyev-Matthews-Marner
Galchenyuk-Tavares-Nylander
Kerfoot-Wennberg-Simmonds
Engvall-Brooks-Spezza

Rielly-Brodie
Muzzin-Holl
Sandin-Dermott
Liljegren

Campbell
?????????

This lineup does not inspire me...soft as butter, again. Mik on the 1st line?

 

[myleafs]

People said the same about Tampa and Washington.

I'm not saying they are winning a cup or the best team in the league.

Sometimes staying the course is a move that works, sometimes it isn't.

He's taking his risk by sticking to his guns. His job will depend on what side the team ends up on.

Again with the Tampa and Capitals comparisons....

 

[Gallagbi]

It's not about the names, it's about the mindset.

Re-distribute the cap.

Keep two of Matthews, Tavares, and Marner.

Let's assume Marner is the one you want to trade. That's 10.903M in cap space. Trade him for a good forward in the 5-6M range and prospects if possible. No one is saying give him for free.

That leaves 5-6M for another top 6 forward or two quality 3rd liners.

It's not about specific names but the general mindset of re-distributing cap space in a flat cap world. Dubas is not even open to the idea and has now lost complementary pieces two years in a row. What's the point of treading water in a harder division? This is the same core that lost in a play-in round with proper divisional hockey. The team couldn't even get into the playoffs against an average Columbus team.

They now don't have Kapanen, Johnsson, Hyman, and Freddy (he's luckily not good). 3-4 of the team's players are going to be rookies/sophomores such as Liljegren, Sandin, Robertson, Anderson/Brooks. Maybe more. Plus, the team's starting goalie has never played a full regular season and Dubas is relying on bringing a 1B goalie to protect all of these newbies.

This is the team that's supposed to win multiple rounds? Dubas has to be more logical than this. He's a good GM and needs to use his common sense. They couldn't even handle Montreal after one injury. That's the depth of this team at full display. It's non-existent.

This team with fringe changes will get smoked by Tampa, Boston, and Florida. I hope not but it's inevitable. A couple of depth forwards and a 1B goalie won't do anything.

It's really a bizarre situation we're in when you step back.

We lost to the Habs this year because our topend failed. Our depth scored as much if not more than the Habs who were built on depth. That's without an 11M center playing on our "depth" lines.

So we want to trade a topend talent, because he didn't produce, to improve the depth that was largely adequate at least in scoring.

Most of the "big 4" concern was on our backend, but really the D was fine and even a bright spot.

When I look at depth, I see a 6th D that struggled (regardless of the name). The depth there was out with a random unlocked related injury, and even then we were benching a true NHLer. Even still, felt like any minor mistake made by our #6 ended up I'm our net.

Upfront Thornton was a problem, but again, we're down a forward and sitting an NHL player still in Nash or an an energetic kid in Robertson. This was a coaching blunder IMO.

Tough to think we're in a spot where we want to move top talent to overcome a slight depth advantage we still seemed to have while missing our captain.

...and that's all to say, I'd still move Marner. I'd just look for some really good scorers because I think we need some more threats.

 

[mcleafs]

if leafs are going to have any success they will have to spread offense. 11 AAV guy doesn't need another 11 AAV guy

XXX-Matthews-XXX
XXX-Tavares-Nylander
Kerfoot-Wennberg-Marner

OR

XXX-Matthews-Nylander
XXX-Tavares-XXX
Kerfoot-Wennberg-Marner


whichever line is hot gets the most minutes; it has nothing to do with how much money someone makes.

Best take I've read in weeks, and honestly I couldn't agree more. Mitch NEEDS to be on the third line to absolutely drive play against weak QOC. I'm good with Willy swapping between JT and Auston too.

Shame the worst coach in the NHL won't do this however. So really it's all just pointless nonsense from us fans.

 

[Racer88]

Pain……lots of pain

 

[18leafsfan18]

I do not agree with that at all

I think he probably should have let Nylander sit in hindsight. I didn't realize how weak it made Dubas look at the time

What would be the final conclusion to that ?

 

[18leafsfan18]

It's not about the names, it's about the mindset.

Re-distribute the cap.

Keep two of Matthews, Tavares, and Marner.

Let's assume Marner is the one you want to trade. That's 10.903M in cap space. Trade him for a good forward in the 5-6M range and prospects if possible. No one is saying give him for free.

That leaves 5-6M for another top 6 forward or two quality 3rd liners.

It's not about specific names but the general mindset of re-distributing cap space in a flat cap world. Dubas is not even open to the idea and has now lost complementary pieces two years in a row. What's the point of treading water in a harder division? This is the same core that lost in a play-in round with proper divisional hockey. The team couldn't even get into the playoffs against an average Columbus team.

They now don't have Kapanen, Johnsson, Hyman, and Freddy (he's luckily not good). 3-4 of the team's players are going to be rookies/sophomores such as Liljegren, Sandin, Robertson, Anderson/Brooks. Maybe more. Plus, the team's starting goalie has never played a full regular season and Dubas is relying on bringing a 1B goalie to protect all of these newbies.

This is the team that's supposed to win multiple rounds? Dubas has to be more logical than this. He's a good GM and needs to use his common sense. They couldn't even handle Montreal after one injury. That's the depth of this team at full display. It's non-existent.

This team with fringe changes will get smoked by Tampa, Boston, and Florida. I hope not but it's inevitable. A couple of depth forwards and a 1B goalie won't do anything.

If he is as bad of a contract as everyone is saying how could you just trade him that easy ?

If this is so clearly the move, how do you know he hasn't tested those waters ?

What drives me nuts is the whole "Marner's contract is an anchor" in the same post as "we can trade him for a bunch of assets" can't be both.

 

[bentharbs]

Lol under no circumstance should Mitch Marner, a top 5 scorer, ever play consistently on the third line.

 

[18leafsfan18]

Again with the Tampa and Capitals comparisons....

Great contribution to a discussion

 

[myleafs]

Great contribution to a discussion

thank you?

 

[aingefan]

I think the cap will drive some moves, if Hyman is getting those offers we might be moving out of pandemic reduced salary offers.
Hyman is a decent middle 6 forward, who is getting $40 million.

Galchenyuk probably can't demand a big contract, so he'd be a good depth forward with some upside.

I thought about Kerfoot with Nylander, and could easily flip him to with Galchenyuk.

...

Another 81 mil to go around the league this offseason.

 

[egd27]

From all reports, Dubas didn't change his offer.

All reports? lol

Listen, when you have a sucker at your poker game, you don't let anyone else know.....especially the sucker.

 

[egd27]

What would be the final conclusion to that ?

Likely a bidding war for Nylander, where Dubas could have had his pick of excellent offers.

It also would have established from the get go that although he was young, he wasn't to be fooked with. Do you want to be here or not?

 

[18leafsfan18]

Likely a bidding war for Nylander, where Dubas could have had his pick of excellent offers.

It also would have established from the get go that although he was young, he wasn't to be fooked with. Do you want to be here or not?

So a guy sitting out a full year for contract issues would have teams lining up to take him ?

I just can't see it, he would likely request a trade and Leafs would have no leverage in a trade. No way to know for sure what would happen I suppose.

 

[nuck]

I do not agree with that at all

I think he probably should have let Nylander sit in hindsight. I didn't realize how weak it made Dubas look at the time

Trade him, don't sit him. It has been said a bunch of times that KD's strategy when he decided to sign Tavares was reasonable, it just didn't work. Would he have even signed JT knowing the cost of the big 3? I don't think so. And why would your RFAs try to use a UFA as a comp? And wouldn't he have just traded Willie knowing it would have probably given him more of a hammer with the other two? I am not sure that "we can and we will" doesn't get tossed if Dubas knows he won't get Willie signed until the last minute. The perceived weakness comes from a trust that the Nylanders would be reasonable and weren't prepared to bluff that they would lose the season. Then the Marners asking for a $9M+ "bridge deal" WTF? A rookie GM becomes a victim of player greed as the shitbag parents of two of them exploit his trust and desire to build a champion. Willie grinds him for months and then up comes the next one and how much gas does anyone have left in the tank? He was weak because the least valuable of the three had spent 3 months putting him through the ringer.

The contracts were a fail that affects the club negatively to this day but to me that's more on Nylander than Dubas and the naivety and trust the KD had back then is gone. No do-overs though.

 

[egd27]

So a guy sitting out a full year for contract issues would have teams lining up to take him ?

I just can't see it, he would likely request a trade and Leafs would have no leverage in a trade. No way to know for sure what would happen I suppose.

Yea, no chance there would be more than one team interested in acquiring a 21 year old William Nylander that a good GM could play off each other.

 

[Menzinger]

Yea, no chance there would be more than one team interested in acquiring a 21 year old William Nylander that a good GM could play off each other.

I think you're underestimating how much missing a year under those circumstances would hurt his trade value.

Just seems a fairly extreme position to take over a contract difference of a couple hundred thousand. Especially since your other motivation (that it would strengthen Management's position during the other negotiations) wouldnt be guaranteed to work either

 

[18leafsfan18]

I think you're underestimating how much missing a year under those circumstances would hurt his trade value.

Just seems a fairly extreme position to take over a contract difference of a couple hundred thousand. Especially since your other motivation (that it would strengthen Management's position during the other negotiations) wouldnt be guaranteed to work either

 

[egd27]

I think you're underestimating how much missing a year under those circumstances would hurt his trade value.

Just seems a fairly extreme position to take over a contract difference of a couple hundred thousand. Especially since your other motivation (that it would strengthen Management's position during the other negotiations) wouldnt be guaranteed to work either

It's extreme for both sides.The player has much much more to lose than the GM, but fans tend to side with the player.

I believe there would 5 or 6 teams willing to bid on Nylander, so I don't believe I'm underestimating his trade value. Especially if his contract demands were so reasonable as you all seem to think.