Confirmed with Link: Canucks trade Dickinson & 2nd (2024) to Chicago for Riley Stillman

[m9]

Dickinson was always more of a projection that he could fill a role on the 3rd line. Here were my thoughts after the trade since the thread is closed now:

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Will be interesting what the contract ends up looking like. I think I would just sign him for one year around his qualifying offer and then re-evaluate next year. They need to figure out if he's a legit 3C, a 4C, or more of a versitile bottom-six guy who plays all over because he's worth vastly different numbers depending where he fits. No need to give him term before you see how he fits.

But, I don't expect him to sign for 1 year. They won't run him to free agency, so it won't be 2. I think we'll see 3x2.5 or something around that.

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I really hate when teams give out contracts to guys that are new to the team but pay them at "best case scenario" level. I think they paid him as if he was going to be that defensive 3C but have themselves no outs in case it didn't work out. Just another case of previous management thinking they're the smartest guys in the room. This is also the reason I'm against the Mikheyev signing in principle, but I'll leave that alone for now.

 

[Hodgy]

Q: Does the cap space allow you to do maybe something else?
Allvin: Could be *smiles and laughs* We’ll see. You know we have a couple of days here to keep you guys busy.

I also like his response to the weird framing of the waivers question where the reporter says they could have made a waiver claim without giving up a 2nd round pick: “I believe we can still make waiver picks”.

It definitely sounds like Allvin plans to use the extra cap space prior to the start of the season. I hope this isn’t on a waiver pick up though as I don’t love spending a 2nd to allow for a waiver claim. Hoping this is to enable a bigger more aggressive trade.

I don’t know about exactly what im looking for as I think they need an actual top 4, RHD. But I like the age profile more than Dermott. I like that his cost is fixed for this season and next.


Love that it gets rid of an overpaid vet winger though.


Can’t say I know enough about Stillmsn though, but his dad was good.


Edit* I will say that the price to clear $1.3m seems high. But I’m assuming it’s because they’ve targeted a Dman they like and can develop into more.

It’s kinda like Hamonic for Dermott.

Edit2*
This pick projects to be late if they’re actually close to where they see themselves in 23/24. Sure it could be PK Subban but also most likely it’s another Jonah Gadjovich. Cap space is at a premium.

I don’t think this trade had much to do with Stillman other than that he’s a warm body that provides depth on defense which I’d preferable to a warm body like Dickinson providing depth on forward.

Otherwise this is a pure cap dump and as pitseleh and MS have analyzed, this is good value. Obviously it depends on how they use this cap space, but management seems to be moving in the direction you advocated (given this plan) so I am surprised your reaction isn’t more positive.

 

[David Bruce Banner]

HFCanucks: I hate Dickenson... we should do what we can to get rid of him.
Canucks: Okay, he's gone.
HFCanucks: No, not like that.

Either we kept him, or we moved him with an asset, there was no middle ground.
Now I don't like moving yet another 2nd anymore than any of you... but at least now we can focus on hating Poolman until we move him for in deal that we will then hate.

Cleaning up after Benning is not going to be pretty and is going to take at least a couple of years of similar two steps forward / one step back maneuvers.

 

[andora]

It definitely sounds like Allvin plans to use the extra cap space prior to the start of the season. I hope this isn’t on a waiver pick up though as I don’t love spending a 2nd to allow for a waiver claim. Hoping this is to enable a bigger more aggressive trade.

I don’t think this trade had much to do with Stillman other than that he’s a warm body that provides depth on defense which I’d preferable to a warm body like Dickinson providing depth on forward.

Otherwise this is a pure cap dump and as pitseleh and MS have analyzed, this is good value. Obviously it depends on how they use this cap space, but management seems to be moving in the direction you advocated (given this plan) so I am surprised your reaction isn’t more positive.

Overall i agree.. i just think this space gets used twice

Perhaps a waiver claim this year
Extra space next off season for potential kuzmenko signing

 

[Balls Mahoney]

Meh... Canucks probably would have blown the pick anyways, so to hell with it.

 

[rypper]

At least it wasn't a '23 pick.

Silver linings!

 

[The Stig]

HFCanucks: I hate Dickenson... we should do what we can to get rid of him.
Canucks: Okay, he's gone.
HFCanucks: No, not like that.

Either we kept him, or we moved him with an asset, there was no middle ground.
Now I don't like moving yet another 2nd anymore than any of you... but at least now we can focus on hating Poolman until we move him for in deal that we will then hate.

Cleaning up after Benning is not going to be pretty and is going to take at least a couple of years of similar two steps forward / one step back maneuvers.

You're bang on. The 2nd was the cost of doing business right now.

 

[pitseleh]

At least it wasn't a '23 pick.

Silver linings!

That had me wondering if we might see a Nic Hague offer sheet with second round compensation. Could put Vegas in a really tough spot.

 

[4Twenty]

It definitely sounds like Allvin plans to use the extra cap space prior to the start of the season. I hope this isn’t on a waiver pick up though as I don’t love spending a 2nd to allow for a waiver claim. Hoping this is to enable a bigger more aggressive trade.

I don’t think this trade had much to do with Stillman other than that he’s a warm body that provides depth on defense which I’d preferable to a warm body like Dickinson providing depth on forward.

Otherwise this is a pure cap dump and as pitseleh and MS have analyzed, this is good value. Obviously it depends on how they use this cap space, but management seems to be moving in the direction you advocated (given this plan) so I am surprised your reaction isn’t more positive.

How much more positive? I was pretty positive.

To steal a common refrain from this forum, at least I’m not “throwing myself off a bridge” over the pick.

 

[oceanchild]

Tough trade, that was kind of expensive. The team under Benning was no even close to good enough. The team now has a chance to be a good team if the forwards gel. We clearly need a right side dman, this is building to that at some point, every bit of cap flexibility will contribute. I could see a Dumba type player coming in. It’s going to cost a good forward (Garland/Horvat) a solid prospect (Hoglander) and a first. If this hurts, wait till we see what is next. I hope that a good Dman is available in the wavier wire and think this is preparing for that, but the lack of right side dman available tells me they guys get traded and not waived on the right side.

 

[Nucker101]

Which analytics liked Dickinson? Please don’t say corsi because that’s like 10 years behind. xgf% is also lazy and easily influenced by linemates and usage.

There's better data out there these days, you can see which players actually carry the puck on their line through the neutral zone, which players make the best passes, which players get into scoring positions, even which players get in on the forecheck, etc.


The stats I looked at showed that Dickinson was a clear 3rd wheel with Benn and Gurianov

 

[iceburg]

Why dump him? You gave up a 2nd which is a potential roster player in the next 2 years that’s cost controlled to save 1.3M for the next 2 years (1.5% of the budget). That’s a stupid trade for us.

the 2nd is sunk cost. It’s irelevant.

I haven’t done the cap numbers but adding 1.3M to the 3.5M from Ferland’s LTIR gives $4.8M, room for a good mid tier D man.

 

[andora]

Which analytics liked Dickinson? Please don’t say corsi because that’s like 10 years behind. xgf% is also lazy and easily influenced by linemates and usage.

There's better data out there these days, you can see which players actually carry the puck on their line through the neutral zone, which players make the best passes, which players get into scoring positions, even which players get in on the forecheck, etc.


The stats I looked at showed that Dickinson was a clear 3rd wheel with Benn and Gurianov

what do you focus on primarily

 

[m9]

You're bang on. The 2nd was the cost of doing business right now.

I think most people understand that a 2nd is around the cost to move off Dickinson.

The part people aren't sure about is if this is a team that should be making that type of move at this time.

 

[strattonius]

Tough trade, that was kind of expensive. The team under Benning was no even close to good enough. The team now has a chance to be a good team if the forwards gel. We clearly need a right side dman, this is building to that at some point, every bit of cap flexibility will contribute. I could see a Dumba type player coming in. It’s going to cost a good forward (Garland/Horvat) a solid prospect (Hoglander) and a first. If this hurts, wait till we see what is next. I hope that a good Dman is available in the wavier wire and think this is preparing for that, but the lack of right side dman available tells me they guys get traded and not waived on the right side.

That's way too much for Dumba. And interchanging Horvat/Garland makes no sense. Horvat has substantially more value.

I wouldn't trade Horvat for Dumba straight up, nevermind the 1st and Hoglander as well.

I get your post though. With CAP flexibility some opportunities may come up that we should jump on - precisely why I'm not invested on judging this trade yet have to see what we can do. But just in general we shouldn't be targeting players like Dumba. Over-priced and over-rated.

 

[Nucker101]

what do you focus on primarily

I'd see for yourself if you're interested, I'd recommend checking out some of Corey Sznajder's work

The neutral zone exit/entry stats are always good to look at, but I like the playmaking stats too, cross-ice passes are so crucial to beating goalies these days. There's even stats on net-front guys, how often a player deflects the puck, gets a shot from a rebound, etc.

It's pretty interesting.

 

[pitseleh]

Which analytics liked Dickinson? Please don’t say corsi because that’s like 10 years behind. xgf% is also lazy and easily influenced by linemates and usage.

The stats I looked at showed that Dickinson was a clear 3rd wheel with Benn and Gurianov

It was basically people over interpreting one season where Dickinson’s numbers looked like an elite shutdown centre. Before that he looked more like a high quality fourth liner that could play higher up the lineup without being exposed - not as bad as he’s been but not what the team paid for either.

 

[JanBulisPiggyBack]

I have had time to digest this trade and it’s the cost of doing business, I don’t have any expectations for Stillman that I don’t have for Burroughs and Wolanin, perhaps we can regain an asset by trading a depth guy for a 3rd round pick along the way

Being rid of Dickinson for 2 years without any cap hit is actually a good outcome, we didn’t take back a bad contract with term so we can be happy about that at the very least. My only criticism as an armchair GM is perhaps put him through waivers first and see if somebody is dumb enough to take him for free

If Stillman plays 40 games for us I’m happy.

 

[Vector]

the 2nd is sunk cost. It’s irelevant.

I haven’t done the cap numbers but adding 1.3M to the 3.5M from Ferland’s LTIR gives $4.8M, room for a good mid tier D man.

Rough numbers from last night have them in line to have something over 2m in LTIR space.

The main cog, for me right now, is of Di Giuseppe’s injury forces his cap hit on the team until he’s healthy enough to be waived. If his contract doesn’t count then it’s closer to 3m in space.

 

[m9]

I'd see for yourself if you're interested, I'd recommend checking out some of Corey Sznajder's work

The neutral zone exit/entry stats are always good to look at, but I like the playmaking stats too, cross-ice passes are so crucial to beating goalies these days. There's even stats on net-front guys, how often a player deflects the puck, gets a shot from a rebound, etc.

It's pretty interesting.

I can't imagine anyone thought Dickinson would do well in these kind of categories. I assume those that liked him analytically were talking about his defensive play.

 

[iceburg]

Rough numbers from last night have them in line to have something over 2m in LTIR space.

The main cog, for me right now, is of Di Giuseppe’s injury forces his cap hit on the team until he’s healthy enough to be waived. If his contract doesn’t count then it’s closer to 3m in space.

Ok thanks. I think the point still stands that 1.3M cap space isn’t insignificant. It can mean the difference between a player that can seriously contribute and a replacement level player.

 

[Nucker101]

I can't imagine anyone thought Dickinson would do well in these kind of categories. I assume those that liked him analytically were talking about his defensive play.

Fair enough. I’m firmly against paying forwards $3M mainly for defense.

 

[Hit the post]

Fair enough. I’m firmly against paying forwards $3M mainly for defense.

One can try to justify if said player was actually a decent *CENTER*. Dickon's "skills" as a defensive forward was when he was used mainly as a winger in Dallas. Jethro Bodine knows better though.

Last chance I'll get to post this:

 

[Nucker101]

One can try to justify if said player was actually a decent *CENTER*. Dickon's "skills" as a defensive forward was when he was used mainly as a winger in Dallas. Jethro Bodine knows better though.

Even as a Center that’s a big no for me. I’m not taking Radek Faksa for free at his cap hit and he’s basically who we thought we were getting in Dickinson

I want some offense at $3M, otherwise I’ll find a cheaper defensive forward who can eat up minutes and PK.

 

[Phrasing]

I bet this management hates the position Benning has put them in with his years of terrible management. Aquilini equally too for letting Benning stay this long in the first place to do lasting damage years after he would be gone.