Confirmed with Link: Canucks trade Dickinson & 2nd (2024) to Chicago for Riley Stillman

[bobbyb2009]

the 2nd is sunk cost. It’s irelevant.

I haven’t done the cap numbers but adding 1.3M to the 3.5M from Ferland’s LTIR gives $4.8M, room for a good mid tier D man.

Well, not exactly. We also have Miller contract kicking in, Horvat contract to add to the mix, and Kuzmenko contract to sign, etc.. There is the dead cap coming back to us and the increase in cap, but no doubt, we can't isolate one contract like that- we do need to do the math on the cap numbers.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

I bet this management hates the position Benning has put them in with his years of terrible management. Aquilini equally too for letting Benning stay this long in the first place to do lasting damage years after he would be gone.

I agree on the Aquilinis being responsible for a lot of this.
Even firing Benning one year earlier would have limited a lot of the damage. No trade of our first round pick for OEL and just let the bad contracts expire so new management would have cap space to make some moves on D. Hanging onto Benning for that year when his survival clearly depended on making the playoffs was just a recipe for disaster.

 

[cc]

I'd rather not to have signed mikheyev to that large contract and instead, signed danton heinen or someone like that. That would have given them more cap flexibility and still allowed them to retain their 2nd

 

[iFan]

I agree on the Aquilinis being responsible for a lot of this.
Even firing Benning one year earlier would have limited a lot of the damage. No trade of our first round pick for OEL and just let the bad contracts expire so new management would have cap space to make some moves on D. Hanging onto Benning for that year when his survival clearly depended on making the playoffs was just a recipe for disaster.

even if Benning was fired before the OEL trade, I’m sure OEL would of still ended up in Vancouver. Benning wasn’t very good at his job but the puppet master seemed to want that trade to happen.

 

[krutovsdonut]

funny trade. timing seems off to make a cap move and we seem to be overpaying.

i don't think this was just to get rid of dickinson based on play but maybe i am misreading. he's been lost and a disappointment but still a roster player who might have bounced back. i am not sure it was just cap space either. we would not have taken back stillman if that is the case, since he adds back cap above the burial limit.

i think things have happened in camp that have created urgent needs

stillman adds physial play while myers and dermott are out and potentially after they get back if they are tender. they want a good start so maybe that drove the timing. right after the edmonton game might not be a coincidence. it could be that joshua has disappointed boudreau who wants a fighter.

being able to extend horvat's contract may be a priority right now for room reasons.

or maybe dickinson needed to go

i dunno. stay tuned i guess.

 

[Melvin]

Which analytics liked Dickinson? Please don’t say corsi because that’s like 10 years behind. xgf% is also lazy and easily influenced by linemates and usage.

There's better data out there these days, you can see which players actually carry the puck on their line through the neutral zone, which players make the best passes, which players get into scoring positions, even which players get in on the forecheck, etc.


The stats I looked at showed that Dickinson was a clear 3rd wheel with Benn and Gurianov

There were a LOT of supposed “analytics” types praising the move, calling Dickinson an elite shutdown centre. Canucks Army and Dayal and others to name a few. As I said at the time, it was based on a stupidly small sample of games played in a stupidly unusual context that is likely to never be repeated (ie temporary divisions where you only play against five opponents)

It was frankly embarrassing.

 

[iceburg]

funny trade. timing seems off to make a cap move and we seem to be overpaying.

i don't think this was just to get rid of dickinson based on play but maybe i am misreading. he's been lost and a disappointment but still a roster player who might have bounced back. i am not sure it was just cap space either. we would not have taken back stillman if that is the case, since he adds back cap above the burial limit.

i think things have happened in camp that have created urgent needs

stillman adds physial play while myers and dermott are out and potentially after they get back if they are tender. they want a good start so maybe that drove the timing. right after the edmonton game might not be a coincidence. it could be that joshua has disappointed boudreau who wants a fighter.

being able to extend horvat's contract may be a priority right now for room reasons.

or maybe dickinson needed to go

i dunno. stay tuned i guess.

I really think this is a continuation of the effort to rebalance the cap and add depth at the same time. For the first time in a long while they are paying a decent 4th line 4th line salaries. It's actually refreshing.
This move is similar to the Hamonic for a 3rd and a 3rd for Dermott. Younger and cheaper and arguably better for bottom of the line up players.
I will say that the only move that doesn't fit that strategy at all is the addition of Mikheyev (unless he ends up being a Pearson replacement).

 

[Hit the post]

There were a LOT of supposed “analytics” types praising the move, calling Dickinson an elite shutdown centre. Canucks Army and Dayal and others to name a few. As I said at the time, it was based on a stupidly small sample of games played in a stupidly unusual context that is likely to never be repeated (ie temporary divisions where you only play against five opponents)

It was frankly embarrassing.

I wonder what Frankie Corrado's "numbers" were in his small sample of playoff games that many moons ago (I actually don't know, was curious but not to the point of overriding my lazyness to look them up myself).

 

[krutovsdonut]

I really think this is a continuation of the effort to rebalance the cap and add depth at the same time. For the first time in a lomng while they are paying a decent 4th line 4th line salaries. It's actually refreshing.
This move is similar to the Hamonic for a 3rd and a 3rd for Dermott. Younger and cheaper and arguably better for bottom of the line up players.
I will say that the only move that doesn't fit that strategy at all is the addition of Mikheyev (unless he ends up being a Pearson replacement).

if they had made this move before the draft or even over the summer i'd agree. it would have given them options and time to get the best price when other teams had not yet committed to other moves.

i mean i suppose it is possible that only now is there a buyer for dickinson for a 2nd, but i'd assume arizona would make that deal all day everyday this summer.

so i think current events are forcing this move now. apart from the thoughts above, maybe they were trying to keep their cap situation tight while negotiating with miller, and maybe they are already thinking ahead to resigning kuzmenko after the camp he has had.

not sure. i just think the timing is weird for a pure cap move. it seems roster or morale driven.

 

[andora]

I really think this is a continuation of the effort to rebalance the cap and add depth at the same time. For the first time in a long while they are paying a decent 4th line 4th line salaries. It's actually refreshing.
This move is similar to the Hamonic for a 3rd and a 3rd for Dermott. Younger and cheaper and arguably better for bottom of the line up players.
I will say that the only move that doesn't fit that strategy at all is the addition of Mikheyev (unless he ends up being a Pearson replacement).

Thats exactly what i think his purpose is.. 2/3 LW for pearsons spot with hoglander hopefully picking up some of that offense on value contract - value contract meaning his next 2 or 3 year deal which should be cheap

Out of the bad contraxts left myers poolman pearson.. i think they should focus on pearson next. I believed the goal was to move out one of the four this season and injuries helped expediting it sooner than i thought - now focus on pearson and slowly chip away if he can find a home - still work on poolman and myers of course

if they had made this move before the draft or even over the summer i'd agree. it would have given them options and time to get the best price when other teams had not yet committed to other moves.

i mean i suppose it is possible that only now is there a buyer for dickinson for a 2nd, but i'd assume arizona would make that deal all day everyday this summer.

so i think current events are forcing this move now. apart from the thoughts above, maybe they were trying to keep their cap situation tight while negotiating with miller, and maybe they are already thinking ahead to resigning kuzmenko after the camp he has had.

not sure. i just think the timing is weird for a pure cap move. it seems roster or morale driven.

Doing it in the summer or now i really dont think matters

The teams taking dumps werent changing going into the season and the market for these moves is fairly set based on history

Gotta wonder if if it could have been a third for future considerations and getting stillman bumped it to a 2nd

 

[oceanchild]

That's way too much for Dumba. And interchanging Horvat/Garland makes no sense. Horvat has substantially more value.

I wouldn't trade Horvat for Dumba straight up, nevermind the 1st and Hoglander as well.

I get your post though. With CAP flexibility some opportunities may come up that we should jump on - precisely why I'm not invested on judging this trade yet have to see what we can do. But just in general we shouldn't be targeting players like Dumba. Over-priced and over-rated.

This is the problem, I think the right handed defensemen market is riding an all time high for cost. Your totally right on value, but sometimes value and cost are not tied. The problem we have is that our biggest hole is at the most expensive spot. I can assure you, when the time comes and they fill that hole, it will hurt and not look good on paper. That is why it isn’t already done.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

He was the beneficiary of having stellar linemates and wasn't really a straw that was stirring the drink. But Benning looked at the 'hockey card stats' and fell in love, without doing any sort of due diligence or digging deeper.

It's amusing that people are mystified as to why Dickinson did not work out, like there wasn't a group of people who had outlined that this was how this was going to go.

it’s like he watched moneyball but just flat out guessed on who was undervalued instead of analyzing anything.

while of course also not understanding that the advantage of an undervalued guy in a cap league means his cap hit has to not match (or exceed) his contributions

ergo, a “process” basically amounting to: what? guy i never heard of scored a little more than usual? let’s give him a two tier raise

like i don’t love paying mikheyev for scoring at a 30 goal *pace* in what could very well be an unsustainable spike year, but compared to schaller coming off a 12 goal year and dick coming off an 11 goal *pace*? that’s a whole other ballgame

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

The price is fine. Problem is, are we a team that should be moving decent picks for cap relief?

Uhhh, yes? Have you seen our cap ?

 

[Huggy43]

A/R were able to get a guy like Aman for free (also cheap) who beat out Dickinson. If with this trade we are able to pick up a Dman that another team is trying to sneak through on waivers; then I’ll call that a win overall.

 

[Tact]

If we never played Halak for more than 10 games last year - that would of saved 1.25M bonus from the cap. Martin played well and new management didn’t have any loyalty to Halak. People say “relationships and can’t treat veteran goalie like that”. But now we didn’t make the playoffs and that cap space could have prevented us paying a 2nd round pick?

am I wrong for saying this?

 

[andora]

If we never played Halak for more than 10 games last year - that would of saved 1.25M bonus from the cap. Martin played well and new management didn’t have any loyalty to Halak. People say “relationships and can’t treat veteran goalie like that”. But now we didn’t make the playoffs and that cap space could have prevented us paying a 2nd round pick?

am I wrong for saying this?

I think we would be paying it anyway.. they needed to move atleast one contract for space next off season

 

[Tact]

I think we would be paying it anyway.. they needed to move atleast one contract for space next off season

1 year is cheaper than 2 years. And not necessarily - offseason a lot of different changes can happen

 

[RutherPlan]

Been watching and reading a lot about him, stylistically, he plays like Bieska. Canucks all of a sudden are becoming a tough team with Joshua, Lazar, Schenn, Stillman, Miller, and Podkolzin.

 

[Aphid Attraction]

Been watching and reading a lot about him, stylistically, he plays like Bieska. Canucks all of a sudden are becoming a tough team with Joshua, Lazar, Schenn, Stillman, Miller, and Podkolzin.

Horvat?

Jk Im just piling it on while I can

 

[andora]

1 year is cheaper than 2 years. And not necessarily - offseason a lot of different changes can happen

Yep possible either way.. but might as well be early than late

As dmall as it is this gives some breathing room next off season depending if kuzmenko is a player

Next .. pearson

 

[m9]

A/R were able to get a guy like Aman for free (also cheap) who beat out Dickinson. If with this trade we are able to pick up a Dman that another team is trying to sneak through on waivers; then I’ll call that a win overall.

Sure, if you just ignore giving up a 2nd pick it's a nice win. We would win most trades if we just ignore the worst part of them.

 

[VanJack]

So at the end of the day, Dickinson cost the Canucks a third rounder to acquire; and a second rounder to get rid of.

Is it any wonder that the last time I looked, the Canucks prospect pool was ranked 26th in the NHL.

 

[credulous]

So at the end of the day, Dickinson cost the Canucks a third rounder to acquire; and a second rounder to get rid of.

Is it any wonder that the last time I looked, the Canucks prospect pool was ranked 26th in the NHL.

the worst part is that these kinds of self inflicted wounds compound. they needed to trade for dickinson because of their failure to develop any 3rd/4th line forwards. moving a 2nd and 3rd for a failed experiment like dickinson means they risk facing the same problem again in the future

 

[andora]

I thought we had new management

 

[Huggy43]

Sure, if you just ignore giving up a 2nd pick it's a nice win. We would win most trades if we just ignore the worst part of them.

There’s a lot of variables in play still but If the 2nd opens up space to be able to grab a Dman on waivers that fills a need currently & with potential to play games over the next couple seasons, than it’s more valuable than the lottery ticket of a 2nd.

Especially when you consider this Franchise’s drafting.
This is 2nd Round picks in the last 20 yrs:

Denis Grot, Marc Andre Bernier, Mason Raymond, Taylor Ellington, Yann Sauve, Anton Rodin, Alex Mallet, Thatcher Demko, Kole Lind, Jonah Gadjovich, Jett Woo, Nils Hoglander, Danila Klimovich

But that’s just how I look at it. You don’t have to agree with me lol.