Canucks News, Rumours, & Fantasy GM

[Gurn]

Let's see in a couple years if JTM was the right decision.

Why wait?
The new managers have already acknowledged it was a bad signing; or they would not be trying to trade him.

 

[Vector]

For those interested in the NCAA free agency period, here's a short article from the Daily Faceoff.

 

[sting101]

Tyson Barrie (23-25)----Filip Hronek (23-25)
ES stats
TOIAVG = 19:08 ---------18:15
PTS/60 = 1.23------------1.15
SH/60 = 4.80------------5.03
RBS/60 = 0.57-----------0.56
HT/60 = 1.87-------------3.30
BLK/60 = 3.18------------2.63
GVA/60 = 1.84------------1.59
TKA/60 = 1.09 -----------0.49

Corsi = 47.28%-----------46.61%
GA/60 = 3.12--------------3.15
HDCA/60 = 11.10---------12.89
XGF/GA = 43.51%--------46.94%
OFF z/ST = 51.78---------46.66%

Colorado w/pct = .447
Detroit w/pct = .467
Goals scored very similar by team

Very similar numbers. Similar size. Skating from reports as well
Hronek is more physical
similar giveaway takeaway ratio when combined
Less favorable usage by a bit

So there you have it folks i present you with a slightly bigger more physical Tyson Barrie at the time of the trade. Pro scouting better be right.

Although Barrie did bring back Nazem Kadri in a trade so.....

 

[tradervik]

So from the multiple different reports it sounds like the Canucks and Penguins had worked-out a framework for a Miller trade that involved two first-round picks. Penguins needed to move a player with term off the roster* with the Canucks helping facilitate that but couldn't find a third party. [...]

Perhaps the nuance here is that the player the Penguins wanted to move was one of the ones you mentioned that has an NTC, and that NTC made the deal impossible to conclude in the short time frame.

[...]
OK, glad to hear there are people here sharing a different take on his playing style. It makes The Wings decision to let him go all the more confounding, but let's see if it ends up being their looks.
[...]

I watched Yzerman's post TDL press conference and it was pretty clear he didn't think he had the roster to be a competitive team (and by "competitive" he meant competitive with Tampa, Carolina, etc, not scraping into the playoffs). The two losses to Ottawa sealed the deal. He now views his potential competitive window being several years away. If that's the case, it makes sense to move Hronek.

If Hronek is not just a flash in the pan, he'll be expensive to re-sign and Detroit has a younger player in Seider who is their best RHD, which isn't to say that Hronek isn't good, he's just not as good as Seider. The Canucks are desperate to re-build their defence, especially the right side, so it also makes sense for them to go after a guy who fits in with what they see as their competitive window (which is closer to "scrape into the playoffs" than being a top team in the league).

 

[Fren]

Tyson Barrie (23-25)----Filip Hronek (23-25)
ES stats
TOIAVG = 19:08 ---------18:15
PTS/60 = 1.23------------1.15
SH/60 = 4.80------------5.03
RBS/60 = 0.57-----------0.56
HT/60 = 1.87-------------3.30
BLK/60 = 3.18------------2.63
GVA/60 = 1.84------------1.59
TKA/60 = 1.09 -----------0.49

Corsi = 47.28%-----------46.61%
GA/60 = 3.12--------------3.15
HDCA/60 = 11.10---------12.89
XGF/GA = 43.51%--------46.94%
OFF z/ST = 51.78---------46.66%

Colorado w/pct = .447
Detroit w/pct = .467
Goals scored very similar by team

Very similar numbers. Similar size. Skating from reports as well
Hronek is more physical
similar giveaway takeaway ratio when combined
Less favorable usage by a bit

So there you have it folks i present you with a slightly bigger more physical Tyson Barrie at the time of the trade. Pro scouting better be right.

Although Barrie did bring back Nazem Kadri in a trade so.....

And this is why relying solely on advanced stats is silly.

 

[andora]

If Hronek is not just a flash in the pan, he'll be expensive to re-sign and Detroit has a younger player in Seider who is their best RHD, which isn't to say that Hronek isn't good, he's just not as good as Seider. The Canucks are desperate to re-build their defence, especially the right side, so it also makes sense for them to go after a guy who fits in with what they see as their competitive window (which is closer to "scrape into the playoffs" than being a top team in the league).

You had me up until the jab at the end

You have to start making the playoffs before the latter can occur. Lol.. it is normal for the playoffs to be a goal before the others and the work continues with other goals once goals are achieved all the while you can have one big goal at the top in capitals

 

[Nucker101]

And this is why relying solely on advanced stats is silly.

Lol what

These aren’t advanced stats at all. They’re basic stats calculated by per 60 mins.

 

[tradervik]

You had me up until the jab at the end

You have to start making the playoffs before the latter can occur. Lol.. it is normal for the playoffs to be a goal before the others and the work continues with other goals once goals are achieved all the while you can have one big goal at the top in capitals

I like to offend all sides.

 

[andora]

I like to offend all sides.

Well good then.. gotta respect that

 

[Johnny Canucker]

In the last 10 years we have missed the playoffs 9 of those 10 times.

In that span, we have gone thru 5 coaches (we are still paying 3)

In that span we have had more dead money with recapture , retaining salaries on recently signed contracts , and buyouts.

In that span we have drafted three players in the top 10 overall that are busts.

We have had more sexual abuse (JV), human rights (RD) , alleged blind eyes turned (DT) than playoff rounds won

We own a top 3 NHL worst contract for antihero half decade.

We were laughed at for making a goalie a captain, “running out of time” to sign core players , gimmick “7th man lever pulls, a city favorite hired as president and fired just as quick. Spend up to the cap every year. Doctors botching surgeries , doctors standing up players with broken necks.


If you think there’s a worse franchise in ALL of sports, you’re wrong. It’s us.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

Lol what

These aren’t advanced stats at all. They’re basic stats calculated by per 60 mins.

And all this shows me is that Hronek gets you slightly better results whilst being on a much worse team with less opportunity. Presenting advanced stats doesn't reinforce any argument unless you can interpret them correctly.

 

[DonnyNucker]

In the last 10 years we have missed the playoffs 9 of those 10 times.

In that span, we have gone thru 5 coaches (we are still paying 3)

In that span we have had more dead money with recapture , retaining salaries on recently signed contracts , and buyouts.

In that span we have drafted three players in the top 10 overall that are busts.

We have had more sexual abuse (JV), human rights (RD) , alleged blind eyes turned (DT) than playoff rounds won

We own a top 3 NHL worst contract for antihero half decade.

We were laughed at for making a goalie a captain, “running out of time” to sign core players , gimmick “7th man lever pulls, a city favorite hired as president and fired just as quick. Spend up to the cap every year. Doctors botching surgeries , doctors standing up players with broken necks.


If you think there’s a worse franchise in ALL of sports, you’re wrong. It’s us.

Neat

 

[Hansen]

I wonder what the internal conversations are like at management level watching Brisebois and Wolanin perform immensely better than OEL and Stillman did

 

[Fren]

Lol what

These aren’t advanced stats at all. They’re basic stats calculated by per 60 mins.

Truly a foundational poster. Thank you for your superior hockey knowledge senpai.

 

[JohnHodgson]

Why wait?
The new managers have already acknowledged it was a bad signing; or they would not be trying to trade him.

Trading someone you signed doesn't mean it was a bad signing.

Everyone is tradeable for the right price.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

And this is why relying solely on advanced stats is silly.

Benning is that you?

In the last 10 years we have missed the playoffs 9 of those 10 times.

In that span, we have gone thru 5 coaches (we are still paying 3)

In that span we have had more dead money with recapture , retaining salaries on recently signed contracts , and buyouts.

In that span we have drafted three players in the top 10 overall that are busts.

We have had more sexual abuse (JV), human rights (RD) , alleged blind eyes turned (DT) than playoff rounds won

We own a top 3 NHL worst contract for antihero half decade.

We were laughed at for making a goalie a captain, “running out of time” to sign core players , gimmick “7th man lever pulls, a city favorite hired as president and fired just as quick. Spend up to the cap every year. Doctors botching surgeries , doctors standing up players with broken necks.


If you think there’s a worse franchise in ALL of sports, you’re wrong. It’s us.

Whitecaps are pretty shit.

So there’s real competition just in Vancouver alone.

 

[Hansen]

Im watching last nights game late (I dont think its been as much of a snoozer actually)

Kravtsov really seems to have something there, the puck finds him and he creates chances. Some work is needed, and the problem with him has been buy in on that work from the sounds of it. I think if Tocchet can get through to him and they can get his fitness up, confidence going, he could be a top 6 player for us.

I'm also on the train that if Reinbacher is available and we take him, adding him and Hronek rebuilds our right side

 

[Fren]

Benning is that you?

I've watched the tapes. Horneck is a good player. Skates well with the puck, good first pass. I believe he can help the Canucks win.

 

[MS]

I have to chuckle at how you're so often posting about others tantrums and freaking out, when that particular feeling seems to have begun to colour your comments.

Your take that any contract means it's commensurate to the players ability is just bizarre given the example we have playing in the Canucks in one Tyler Myers.

I'd be stoked if Hronek turns into a right handed stud, top 2 defender, and I most certainly hope he does. But there's ample evidence that he is not in fact that kind of player, and is more like a Tyson Barrie who produces more offence on a PP. Not a bad thing, but also not the biggest hole on the team.

With so little capital to play with, the margin of error management has to work with is limited. This was why I felt getting more youth through a good draft while there's still a little time to do so around Petty and Quinn made more sense. But I do understand they felt Hronek was a gamble worth making. They're obviously confident in their scouting.

I disagree but hope I'm wrong.

I think he's substantially better than Tyson Barrie who was/is a midget who has been a sheltered defensive liability basically his whole career.

If we have to give Hronek 60% o-zone starts and a babysitter and he's still bleeding goals and if he can't produce offense without PP minutes, I'll be more than happy to criticize this trade.

Again, to me probably the closest NHL player right now to Hronek is Neal Pionk and if we get that level of play out of Hronek, I'd be pretty satisfied.

Hronek doesn't have great defensive results, but he's generally been used as a pretty high-leverage guy in all situations on a bad team. He isn't a Barrie.

 

[credulous]

no one will like this comparison but hronek reminds me of tyler myers. obviously doesn't have the size but plays very similar in style. going forward both of them like to skate and are capable of making a good first pass but both are easy to force into bad decisions. defending both of them are poor positionally and use their sticks way too much when they should be using their bodies. if you think myers is bad at clearing the net front wait until you see hronek. hronek has better offensive zone tools, better transition defense and is a much better penalty killer than myers. myers can bring a physical element sometimes though that hronek just completely lacks

hronek is the better defender but he needs a quality partner who can help him out with the in zone stuff and the zone exits

 

[Fren]

myers can bring a physical element sometimes though that hronek just completely lacks

Wut? Isn't Hronek known for throwing his body around? "Completely lacks" is a pretty strong statement.

 

[credulous]

Wut? Isn't Hronek known for throwing his body around? "Completely lacks" is a pretty strong statement.

i don't know where that reputation comes from. i haven't watched him very much this year but his first four years in the league he was a total non entity physically. he'll mix it up after the whistle and he blocks a fair amount of shots but he's not a guy who takes the body or lays anyone out ever

 

[Vector]

It’s a little eerie how similar Hronek’s descriptions are to Beiksa. Actual Bieksa, not the one many built up in their heads. Similar size, very good skaters, prone to defensive mistakes and misreads, strong offensively with preferences to skating the puck, occasionally land big hits but isn’t a big part of their games, and involved in scrums between the whistle.

Bieksa was at his best when he had a string defensive partner that allowed him to gamble (Mitchell & Hamhuis). I suspect finding a 2nd pairing partner for Hronek will be a strong priority this off-season.

Will be very interesting to see how accurate that is.

 

[credulous]

It’s a little eerie how similar Hronek’s descriptions are to Beiksa. Actual Bieksa, not the one many built up in their heads. Similar size, very good skaters, prone to defensive mistakes and misreads, strong offensively with preferences to skating the puck, occasionally land big hits but isn’t a big part of their games, and involved in scrums between the whistle.

Bieksa was at his best when he had a string defensive partner that allowed him to gamble (Mitchell & Hamhung). I suspect finding a 2nd pairing partner for Hronek will be a strong priority this off-season.

Will be very interesting to see how accurate that is.

hronek's skating isn't nearly as good as bieksa's but otherwise he is also an excellent comparison

 

[sting101]

I think he's substantially better than Tyson Barrie who was/is a midget who has been a sheltered defensive liability basically his whole career.

If we have to give Hronek 60% o-zone starts and a babysitter and he's still bleeding goals and if he can't produce offense without PP minutes, I'll be more than happy to criticize this trade.

Again, to me probably the closest NHL player right now to Hronek is Neal Pionk and if we get that level of play out of Hronek, I'd be pretty satisfied.

Hronek doesn't have great defensive results, but he's generally been used as a pretty high-leverage guy in all situations on a bad team. He isn't a Barrie.

i happen to agree with you MS i just posted that side by side stat comp out of my own curiosity and because people were comparing the 2 and getting a lot of support with that thesis. My conclusion was being sarcastic but if i'm being honest i really dont know what to expect as i haven't really watched Detroit much at all recently

Even though the records were close of the 2 teams basically that was because of the 1 year where the Avs imploded that led to the Makar pick. Barrie played with a much better group of forwards and also had easier usage zone start sets with EJ eating the tough minutes. Hronek is much more physical and has had to eat most of those tough minutes with (until this year) a horrendous group of forwards.