Canucks News, Rumours, and & Fantasy GM | Will they stay or will they go, now?

[Mr. Canucklehead]

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Vector's NHL Transaction Tracker.

Some Important Off-Season Dates

Buyout Period: 48 hours after the SCF; players without NMCs must be placed on unconditional waivers 24 hours prior (another buyout period opens if a team has a player file for arbitration)
Team-Elected Arbitration: 48 hours after the SCF
Draft Day 01: June 28th
Draft Day 02: June 29th
Qualifying Offer Date: July 1st
Free Agency Opens: July 1st
Player-Elected Arbitration: July 5th
Young Stars Classic Tournament: Sep. 13th-16th

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[MS]

I think I've been pretty vocal in support of bringing back Joshua and suggested a four year deal in December when it seemed outrageous to suggest such a thing. management rolled the dice that he would cool off and he didn't. That's on them.


re Mikheyev, I'd agree with this 100% if his issue was that he was too busy counting his money to care about hockey. He blew out a knew, shit sandwich delivered. no reason he can't bounce back to be the player he was signed to be. This argument really isn’t about Mikheyev or Joshua + Zadorov. They want to bring in Guentzel and there isn’t enough $$ for all 4.

This is the sort of 'logical' thing that weak management groups come up with as solutions. It's what Dave Nonis would do.

It sounds good in theory but in an actual NHL dressing room it's a killer.

 

[Jerry the great]

have they changed the rules? Severson and Thachuk are two in recent history that were involved in sign and trades.

if they trade his rights, the acquiring team can only sign him to a 7 year deal. if they want 8, sign and trade is the only option.

 

[Vector]

If it takes attaching the 2025 1st, that's what you do.

It's absolutely poisonous to give the team the impression of moving backward and that you aren't serious about doing what it takes to compete.

JT Miller and Quinn Hughes don't give a shit about the 2025 1st. They care about retaining guys like Zadorov and Joshua and building and moving forward. And if you are sitting there like 'wellllll it sure was really expensive to move the guy who had 1 goal in 60 games' you look like a not serious club.

TB managed to move Tyler Johnson in 2021 at the height of the flat cap stuff when he was coming off back-to-back sub 0.5 PPG seasons and had 3 years/$15 million remaining. Vegas managed to dump Dadonov at 1 year/$5 million.

They don't have to sign Zadorov and Joshua but it is imperative to clear out Mikheyev and bring in players that improve the team. As much as I want Joshua back, there is a breaking point on his contract and the same goes for Zadorov. Off-season hasn't really even started yet, according to the NHL so there's lots of time.

 

[CanucksSayEh]

A lot of people here were cool with letting Tanev go. Maybe they can learn the hard way again.

 

[Vector]

A lot of people here were cool with letting Tanev go. Maybe they can learn the hard way again.

A lot of people are idiots.

 

[StickShift]

If it takes attaching the 2025 1st, that's what you do.

It's absolutely poisonous to give the team the impression of moving backward and that you aren't serious about doing what it takes to compete.

JT Miller and Quinn Hughes don't give a shit about the 2025 1st. They care about retaining guys like Zadorov and Joshua and building and moving forward. And if you are sitting there like 'wellllll it sure was really expensive to move the guy who had 1 goal in 60 games' you look like a not serious club.

TB managed to move Tyler Johnson in 2021 at the height of the flat cap stuff when he was coming off back-to-back sub 0.5 PPG seasons and had 3 years/$15 million remaining. Vegas managed to dump Dadonov at 1 year/$5 million.

As a matter of principle if you have to spend a 1st to get the cap-space to sign Jake Guentzel—the club should be making that ”trade”.

I do agree with your principle that Mikheyev must be moved. It was the inaction to deal with Eriksson, Roussel, Beagle, Sutter etc that made the culture suffer for so long. If those guys get paid by the team to underperform without consequence, what motivation should I have to perform for the team? Nobody stepped on that burning bag of shit until it was too late—and when they did, it was just for a different pile of shit (OEL).

Which speaking of—I think Allvin buying out OEL ultimately came down to that same logic that you are alluding to and it is what gives me hope that they will do the right thing this off-season to keep the momentum moving forward.

 

[theguardianII]

Nikita Zadorov:
-final offer is coming soon
-player and agent would love to re-sign in Vancouver
-strictly about money
-talking big term
-if he was right handed they would have signed him months ago
-going to trying one last time to re-sign him
-mentions 6y/6m as a UFA

#5/6 defenceman gets 3 mil a year, Chatfield.
#2/3/4 Zadorov isn't worth 5.5 mil on a longer term?
AND
What will #1/2 dman Hronek be worth?

The longer they hold off signing Zadorov and Myers the more Hronek's contract becomes because the team won't be able to rebuild the defence two years in a row. And the less likey he does sign here.
An argument to an arbitrator might also be what is he worth to the team that needs 3 defencemen. And if it goes that far I think Hronek can settle for a single year making him a FA the next year and causing even more leverage or lessening of trade value because it would be obvious he will go if he hits FA.

Zadorov rumoured 36 mil, do it but structure the contract for 40 mil over 7 years, 8 if needed just front load it a bit so it is more tradable near the end. I don't see why they would have an issue though because they signed Miller to his late 30's at 8 million and older defencemen keep there effectiveness much longer.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

Looks like this weekend is pivotal for Zadorov staying or going.

I hope he stays. I just think he's such a unicorn in terms of size, strength, snarl, skill and attitude.

 

[Jerry the great]

This is the sort of 'logical' thing that weak management groups come up with as solutions. It's what Dave Nonis would do.

It sounds good in theory but in an actual NHL dressing room it's a killer.

So should they also get rid of Pettersson, because he was pretty far from being a needle moving contributor over the last half of the season and into the playoffs?

 

[Hodgy]

If it takes attaching the 2025 1st, that's what you do.

It's absolutely poisonous to give the team the impression of moving backward and that you aren't serious about doing what it takes to compete.

JT Miller and Quinn Hughes don't give a shit about the 2025 1st. They care about retaining guys like Zadorov and Joshua and building and moving forward. And if you are sitting there like 'wellllll it sure was really expensive to move the guy who had 1 goal in 60 games' you look like a not serious club.

TB managed to move Tyler Johnson in 2021 at the height of the flat cap stuff when he was coming off back-to-back sub 0.5 PPG seasons and had 3 years/$15 million remaining. Vegas managed to dump Dadonov at 1 year/$5 million.

I don’t disagree with you. But management’s best case scenario is to have the perpetually competing unicorn type team. It’s best for their employment. And it’s why I don’t think they are going to further gut futures to move Mikheyev.

Personally, I’d pay Zadorov and let Joshua walk. I think the ultimate downside or risk for Zadorov is way less than Joshua. At worst, I think Zadorov is going to be a big mean two way number five. At best I think he’s closer to a number three which is what he was in the playoffs. And I think Zadorov will take some discount.

Joshua has far less of a track record and I think while he has great chemistry with Garland, Garland is the one predominately driving it. I would love to bring back Joshua though but he’s not going to take any discount, nor should he, and based on his limited track record, his downside is being a quasi nhl player. Which is a massive downside.

 

[Vector]

So should they also get rid of Pettersson, because he was pretty far from being a needle moving contributor over the last half of the season and into the playoffs?

Going to stop this right here because this is a strawman and you're looking to start a fight.

 

[Jerry the great]

Going to stop this right here because this is a strawman and you're looking to start a fight.

this is a serious question. but fine

 

[MS]

They don't have to sign Zadorov and Joshua but it is imperative to clear out Mikheyev and bring in players that improve the team. As much as I want Joshua back, there is a breaking point on his contract and the same goes for Zadorov. Off-season hasn't really even started yet, according to the NHL so there's lots of time.

For sure.

If they let those guys guy, also dump Mikheyev, and bring in other top players (Guentzel) that's fine.

But it's gotta be the right players, too. Not Brayden Holtbys.

A lot of people here were cool with letting Tanev go. Maybe they can learn the hard way again.

Yup. Zadorov and Joshua are this year's Tanev and Toffoli and Mikheyev is this year's Eriksson/Virtanen.

 

[UrbanImpact]

Big Z is playing hardball but hes going to come back down to earth. He will be making 5.2 mil AAV.

 

[Vector]

For sure.

If they let those guys guy, also dump Mikheyev, and bring in other top players (Guentzel) that's fine.

But it's gotta be the right players, too. Not Brayden Holtbys.



Yup. Zadorov and Joshua are this year's Tanev and Toffoli and Mikheyev is this year's Eriksson/Virtanen.

They've already shown they're more aggressive than 2/3rds of the last management groups here just by buying out OEL so I'm pretty confident they won't suddenly rest on their laurels because they made it to the second round.

 

[MS]

So should they also get rid of Pettersson, because he was pretty far from being a needle moving contributor over the last half of the season and into the playoffs?

I mean, it should be pretty obvious what the difference is between Elias Pettersson and Ilya Mikheyev.

 

[God]

I think I've been pretty vocal in support of bringing back Joshua and suggested a four year deal in December when it seemed outrageous to suggest such a thing. management rolled the dice that he would cool off and he didn't. That's on them.


re Mikheyev, I'd agree with this 100% if his issue was that he was too busy counting his money to care about hockey. He blew out a knew, shit sandwich delivered. no reason he can't bounce back to be the player he was signed to be. This argument really isn’t about Mikheyev or Joshua + Zadorov. They want to bring in Guentzel and there isn’t enough $$ for all 4.

I've defended Mikheyev for this exact reason but he has to be moved out. We can't afford to wait and see if it recovers. That argument is the only bargaining chip we have for anohter team to even take him.

The 2011 team lost their chance at another final when the team chose to bring back Ballard instead of shipping him off and using that money to re-sign Ehrhoff.

 

[MS]

They've already shown they're more aggressive than 2/3rds of the last management groups here just by buying out OEL so I'm pretty confident they won't suddenly rest on their laurels because they made it to the second round.

I get that. They've done the right things so far.

But Mikheyev is 'their guy' and it's a bit easier to take the safe route out with him rather than admit your first big signing is a negative-value donkey at this point.

 

[Vector]

I've defended Mikheyev for this exact reason but he has to be moved out. We can't afford to wait and see if it recovers. That argument is the only bargaining chip we have for anohter team to even take him.

The 2011 team lost their chance at another final when the team chose to bring back Ballard instead of shipping him off and using that money to re-sign Ehrhoff.

That and created a weird rule where no defencemen could be paid more than Bieksa. The Ballard-Ehrhoff example still sticks with me.

 

[God]

That and created a weird rule where no defencemen could be paid more than Bieksa. The Ballard-Ehrhoff example still sticks with me.

Weirdly, he wouldn't have been, because he signed that 40 million 10 year contract and we know the Canucks were keen on doing contracts like that.

 

[Vector]

I get that. They've done the right things so far.

But Mikheyev is 'their guy' and it's a bit easier to take the safe route out with him rather than admit your first big signing is a negative-value donkey at this point.

True and they've moved off their guys before to but neither of them were "their guy".

Weirdly, he wouldn't have been, because he signed that 40 million 10 year contract and we know the Canucks were keen on doing contracts like that.

Yeah but that was never part of the discussion with the Canucks. That was only the Sabres that proposed it.

 

[UrbanImpact]

A lot of people here were cool with letting Tanev go. Maybe they can learn the hard way again.

I was definitely cool letting Tanev go. The guy couldnt stay healthy and had never played anywhere near 82 games in a year for the Canucks.

Lots of people wanted to trade him at the deadline to get assets for him.

The fact that he managed to turn it around in Calgary and stay relatively healthy is great for Tanev, but you cant blame the people that didnt want to invest in a player who played 50 games a year and couldnt rely on to be healthy and in the lineup.

 

[ziploc]

For sure.

If they let those guys guy, also dump Mikheyev, and bring in other top players (Guentzel) that's fine.

But it's gotta be the right players, too. Not Brayden Holtbys.



Yup. Zadorov and Joshua are this year's Tanev and Toffoli and Mikheyev is this year's Eriksson/Virtanen.

I really, really like Joshua, but I think I am more committed to Zad staying. Would very much like them both to stay, but I'm just not sure how the money can work. Mikheyev gone, absolutely, even if it costs a serious asset - but I'd also like to see Guentzel brought in. And I think that will cost another difficult roster decision for cap reasons.

 

[MS]

That and created a weird rule where no defencemen could be paid more than Bieksa. The Ballard-Ehrhoff example still sticks with me.

Yup. Ehrhoff was willing to sign for 5 years/$26 million ($5.2 million AAV) which was totally reasonable relative to his performances and that dumb rule totally bit them in the ass over $500k.

People use the Buffalo contract as a strawman in Ehrhoff discussions but that only happened much later after we traded his rights.

 

[Vector]

Yup. Ehrhoff was willing to sign for 5 years/$26 million ($5.2 million AAV) which was totally reasonable relative to his performances and that dumb rule totally bit them in the ass over $500k.

People use the Buffalo contract as a strawman in Ehrhoff discussions but that only happened much later after we traded his rights.

People forget his rights were traded twice too. First to the Islanders and then to the Sabres.