Canucks News, Rumours, and & Fantasy GM | Will they stay or will they go, now?

[Mr. Canucklehead]

Last one was over 1,000. Continue here.

Vector's NHL Transaction Tracker.

Some Important Off-Season Dates

Buyout Period: 48 hours after the SCF; players without NMCs must be placed on unconditional waivers 24 hours prior (another buyout period opens if a team has a player file for arbitration)
Team-Elected Arbitration: 48 hours after the SCF
Draft Day 01: June 28th
Draft Day 02: June 29th
Qualifying Offer Date: July 1st
Free Agency Opens: July 1st
Player-Elected Arbitration: July 5th
Young Stars Classic Tournament: Sep. 13th-16th

Click to read more...

 

[Killer Orcas]

Trouble is Hronek going to arbitration and getting a 1 year deal that is $7M+.

Then he's a UFA next year.

It's entirely possible mgmt takes that risk given where the team is at.

But if he gets injured then you're f***ed.

RHD are gold. Top 2-4 RHD even more so.

Yes there are options on the FA market but there's enough teams looking to have atleast a good level of interest from a trade perspective.

So for me, mgmt does not dick around and will want clarity one way or another especially given the amount of FAs the Nucks have and the needs they need to fill.

He gets injured he's f***ed to lots of risk for him to not taking long term deal now.

 

[racerjoe]

Trouble is Hronek has all the leverage, either they meet his demands or he's happy to go to arb. Trading him is in the Canucks corner and whether they can get adequate value in the trade. In fact, all the FAs have all the leverage and nobody seems to be in the mood to do any favours except for Myers. I don't think anyone is particularly down on Vancouver, they're just ambivalent to signing here.

And yes, I'd agree management may view arbitration as a superior outcome to a shit trade.

The flip side of that is the Canucks could take him to arb, then essentially tank his value by not playing him with Hughes, and not giving him the opportunity to put up points, tanking his value on the big contract.

As i said before some have definitely said they would do favours and take less. It is probably still best we don't extend ourselves and sign some of them. Pay your stars, find cheap depth.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

I assume the chances of Willander making the squad next year are essentially zero?

I could see him possibly signing once his college season finishes, if he has a really strong season there and looks ready to make the jump. But it’ll depend on how the season goes.

Different category of prospect, but I wonder how Aiden Celebrini fares next season in what should be an increased role on the team.

 

[TruGr1t]

The flip side of that is the Canucks could take him to arb, then essentially tank his value by not playing him with Hughes, and not giving him the opportunity to put up points, tanking his value on the big contract.

As i said before some have definitely said they would do favours and take less. It is probably still best we don't extend ourselves and sign some of them. Pay your stars, find cheap depth.

I mean, that's not how things really work, and I doubt it would be effective. He'd basically pout his way through one year then leave anyways, and you'd tank his deadline value by not playing him with Hughes.

 

[Killer Orcas]

The flip side of that is the Canucks could take him to arb, then essentially tank his value by not playing him with Hughes, and not giving him the opportunity to put up points, tanking his value on the big contract.

As i said before some have definitely said they would do favours and take less. It is probably still best we don't extend ourselves and sign some of them. Pay your stars, find cheap depth.

Problem is he's not a star but thinks he is. Leave him on 2nd pairing let's see what he can do first 40 games next season.

 

[racerjoe]

I mean, that's not how things really work, and I doubt it would be effective. He'd basically pout his way through one year then leave anyways, and you'd tank his deadline value by not playing him with Hughes.

What would the Canucks care about his trade Value... they wouldn't be trading him at that point and would be either letting him walk or sign him for less the next year. It would only be Hronek who has something to lose.

I think star players have huge leverage when they get to this point other players don't... they can bet on themselves, and that may pay off, or sign the best contract they can get.

 

[rea]

While I understand the logic, the reality is, no club with cup aspirations, would make themselves worse for the sake of devaluing a player. If they know separating him from Quinn will make the team worse or cost them wins, they'd play him where he's most useful.

With that said, I'd still take his ass to arbitration and risk losing him in a year lol

The flip side of that is the Canucks could take him to arb, then essentially tank his value by not playing him with Hughes, and not giving him the opportunity to put up points, tanking his value on the big contract.

As i said before some have definitely said they would do favours and take less. It is probably still best we don't extend ourselves and sign some of them. Pay your stars, find cheap depth.

 

[racerjoe]

While I understand the logic, the reality is, no club with cup aspirations, would make themselves worse for the sake of devaluing a player. If they know separating him from Quinn will make the team worse or cost them wins, they'd play him where he's most useful.

With that said, I'd still take his ass to arbitration and risk losing him in a year lol

Thats just it... it might not be making them worse. They have stated the want to split Hronek and Hughes already... its not making the team worse, its putting a player in a different role. 2nd pair and less pp time.

Even still its the threat of doing it.

 

[rea]

Thats just it... it might not be making them worse. They have stated the want to split Hronek and Hughes already... its not making the team worse, its putting a player in a different role. 2nd pair and less pp time.

Even still its the threat of doing it.

I can agree with that, but what if the scenario arises where it isn't working, and it's costing them? Do they reunite or just stick with it? It could all be moot and maybe he becomes a 2nd pairing god, but if he doesn't, there has to be a plan b, and if he's slumping, he won't be very valuable in trade, but if you reform the top pair, well you get where I'm going w this.

Also, I'm just putting out what if scenarios thst could feasibly happen. In the end, whatever choices they choose to do, they need some back up plans.

And I still take his ass to arbitration LOL

 

[JohnHodgson]

Food for thought.

Anyone ever think about drafting Benson over Willander still?

While I am happy with the pick it also sure would be nice to have a top 6 winger penciled in for next season on an ELC.

The opposite.

Wingers are dime a dozen unless they are star players.

Right shot defensemen are the hardest to find in the game right now.

Every winger in the Panthers top nine was acquired through a trade or free agency.

 

[JohnHodgson]

Trouble is Hronek has all the leverage, either they meet his demands or he's happy to go to arb. Trading him is in the Canucks corner and whether they can get adequate value in the trade. In fact, all the FAs have all the leverage and nobody seems to be in the mood to do any favours except for Myers. I don't think anyone is particularly down on Vancouver, they're just ambivalent to signing here.

And yes, I'd agree management may view arbitration as a superior outcome to a shit trade.

That's not true at all.

How can a player be happy about going to arbitration after a career year? He wants to bank on his career year and sign a long term deal for 8 years at 8M per for a guaranteed $64M. Going to arbitration only gets him ~$7M x 1 year.

Would you be happy knowing that you could have made around $60M but only ended up getting $7M?

What if Hronek gets hurt? What if his production drops? What if he's not paired with Hughes and has a down year? Why would the player be happy about going to arbitration when he's looking to lock up an 8 year deal? Now he has to deal with negotiations again next summer? There's a reason why players rarely go to arbitration.

I'm sure John Klingberg had all the leverage too.

 

[JohnHodgson]

Thats just it... it might not be making them worse. They have stated the want to split Hronek and Hughes already... its not making the team worse, its putting a player in a different role. 2nd pair and less pp time.

Even still its the threat of doing it.

Agreed.

Hronek on the second pairing should be something to be experimented whether he goes through arb or if he's long-term.

If Hronek can carry his own pair and still be an effective two-way defensemen, that would elevate our team even more compared to him being second fiddle to Hughes.

 

[JohnHodgson]

I can agree with that, but what if the scenario arises where it isn't working, and it's costing them? Do they reunite or just stick with it? It could all be moot and maybe he becomes a 2nd pairing god, but if he doesn't, there has to be a plan b, and if he's slumping, he won't be very valuable in trade, but if you reform the top pair, well you get where I'm going w this.

Also, I'm just putting out what if scenarios thst could feasibly happen. In the end, whatever choices they choose to do, they need some back up plans.

And I still take his ass to arbitration LOL

Arbitration isn't even as bad as some people here are making out to be.

We get a prime year out of Hronek for a reasonable price, then we can trade him at the deadline or just ride him out as a rental. A first and a second for two prime years of Hronek isn't bad. Someone else can be a sucker and give Hronek an 8 year deal at 28.

 

[rea]

Arbitration isn't even as bad as some people here are making out to be.

We get a prime year out of Hronek for a reasonable price, then we can trade him at the deadline or just ride him out as a rental. A first and a second for two prime years of Hronek isn't bad. Someone else can be a sucker and give Hronek an 8 year deal at 28.

Agreed.

 

[JohnHodgson]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1800274714096738526

Hah ok it’s not the end times, but is anyone else feeling this off-season could drift into unmitigated disaster. I’m getting post-bubble vibes here.

Only retain Myers out of all the UFAs, Hronek goes to arb, yikes bro.

Can you be anymore dramatic? LMAO Let's put some trust in our GM that just came second in executive of the year voting? Let's put some trust in our president that won 3 Cups no?

Even if Hronek goes to arb, which is extremely unlikely, we get a #2/3 RD at a reasonable price and can easily ship him off at the deadline to recoup assets or use him as a rental and leverage the cap space/flexibility for trades/UFA.

Avoiding Lindholm and Zadorov at these massive deals is a GOOD thing. You gotta look at this holistically, instead of in silo.

In fact, the right thing to do is avoid these awful contracts and build depth with cheap value contracts. Look at what the Panthers did this year, went out and got a bunch of depth on good contracts like Rodrigues, Mikkola, OEL and Stolarz.

It's ok bro, Benning's not here anymore. You're safe now.

 

[kcunac]

I see they hired Jason krog as a skills and skating coach. I can't rmmbr if he was ever a good skater lol

IIRC Krog was a generational AHL player but nothing in the NHL. Very good skills and shot but very poor skater.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

IIRC Krog was a generational AHL player but nothing in the NHL. Very good skills and shot but very poor skater.

I remember him being quite fast, but couldn't really penetrate to the middle of the ice. IIRC the Islander signed him at the same time we got Steve Kariya.

 

[kcunac]

I remember him being quite fast, but couldn't really penetrate to the middle of the ice. IIRC the Islander signed him at the same time we got Steve Kariya.

Maybe. Can’t remember but he was a star in the AHL. Career 1.12 PPG and several awards.

 

[Izzy Goodenough]

They should just use the power of the 8th year to sign Lindholm at a reasonable cap hit and to outbid other teams.

Make sure the final years have no bonuses and Bob's Your Uncle, the team may be as good as last year.

Otherwise, back to the wilderness.

 

[SelltheTeamFrancesco]

They should just use the power of the 8th year to sign Lindholm at a reasonable cap hit and to outbid other teams.

Make sure the final years have no bonuses and Bob's Your Uncle, the team may be as good as last year.

Otherwise, back to the wilderness.

That ain’t power it’s stupidity.

 

[TruGr1t]

That's not true at all.

How can a player be happy about going to arbitration after a career year? He wants to bank on his career year and sign a long term deal for 8 years at 8M per for a guaranteed $64M. Going to arbitration only gets him ~$7M x 1 year.

Would you be happy knowing that you could have made around $60M but only ended up getting $7M?

What if Hronek gets hurt? What if his production drops? What if he's not paired with Hughes and has a down year? Why would the player be happy about going to arbitration when he's looking to lock up an 8 year deal? Now he has to deal with negotiations again next summer? There's a reason why players rarely go to arbitration.

I'm sure John Klingberg had all the leverage too.

It's pretty simple. If the Canucks don't give him the 8x8 he wants, arbitration basically walks him through to UFA. Obviously he'd take any risk into account, if he was willing to go that route. He'd get one more year beside Hughes to boost his value, and cash in subsequently.

 

[Vector]

Hurricanes:
-wanted to deal with their own UFAs first
-over the weekend the Necas stuff jumped up a bit more
-a couple of people told him that initially Hurricanes felt they could bring Necas back next year but that feeling has slipped away
-privately, Necas has made it clear he'd like to move on
-has until the draft to figure out what to do with Necas
-Hurricanes have indicated to teams what they want
-teams where the Hurricanes don't have what they want, they've asked if that team can do a three-way deal

Lindholm:
-someone told him that Lindholm may not like the idea of being a 3rd line centre or a guy who gets moved around a lot
-maybe he prefers another place to play or there's another team out there that offered him more money

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

Hurricanes:
-wanted to deal with their own UFAs first
-over the weekend the Necas stuff jumped up a bit more
-a couple of people told him that initially Hurricanes felt they could bring Necas back next year but that feeling has slipped away
-privately, Necas has made it clear he'd like to move on
-has until the draft to figure out what to do with Necas
-Hurricanes have indicated to teams what they want
-teams where the Hurricanes don't have what they want, they've asked if that team can do a three-way deal

Lindholm:
-someone told him that Lindholm may not like the idea of being a 3rd line centre or a guy who gets moved around a lot
-maybe he prefers another place to play or there's another team out there that offered him more money

The Lindholm comments are obvious.

He wants to play C and with JT and EP, he will only ever be a 3C who moves around when needed.

He can get more money and more opportunity at C higher up in the lineup than he would in Van elsewhere.

 

[bossram]

It's more the question of replacing that quality of minutes (19+) in the playoffs. Maybe Pettersson rebounds and it isn't an issue, but those guys were pretty much equal in minutes played and Lindholm took tougher minutes. The forward market is pretty barren this year outside of Guentzel and Reinhart (who I don't think we're getting).

I can see why management is pursuing Lindholm, I really do not think they even get his quality in those minutes with anyone out of UFA, especially over a full season assuming his level of play in the playoffs was representative of what he'd provide moving forward. Given they don't want to give up the top two prospects, I also think their prospects of acquiring someone through trade to provide that quality is grim.

They are basically fighting a battle to try not to take a step back in the regular season next year, which is going to be a very tough task if all these UFAs walk outside of Myers. Free agency is not going to provide the answers, and they don't have much trade currency.

We just have a pretty large disagreement over how good Lindholm actually is. My view is that he is not really a "quality" player. IMO he is a passenger player in the sense that his overall quality of play is pretty dependent on his linemates and situation. He's also going to be 30 and just like, the track record of not-elite player UFA signings into their 30s is...not ideal.

Like I said before, I think his main utility (and what may be harder to replace on this UFA market) is being a right-handed center with some defensive competence. With this forward market, I don't actually think it is that difficult to replace his offensive (somewhat limited) or play-driving (limited) contributions from any number of guys (DeBrusk, Heinen, Arvidsson, Marchessault, Toffoli, Bertuzzi, Sherwood, etc). I can't get behind $7Mx7 when for a guy when his unique or most valuable utility is essentially right-handed faceoffs.

 

[Bitz and Bites]

I don't know if man-on-man is "easier", but it simplifies the decision tree for defensemen. You just always engage. The Canucks' system is far more passive (pure "zone" D), and they rely on everyone engaging/battling for a 50/50 puck at the right time (i.e. making a read). Because Chatfield has only played in Carolina's system successfully, I'm not sure if he really is good at making reads, or just excels in RBA's system because he's pretty athletic and rangy, so he can close DZ gaps quickly. It's not easier if the players (defensemen in particular) are slow, not agile, or too small-ish to win battles.

RBA's system also puts zero responsibility on their defensemen to make a possession-driving exit. It's just hack, hack, hack it out. Can Chatfield make some plays, especially under pressure? We don't know. You don't see it. His career track record doesn't suggest this.

I seem to recall that Chatfield having good skating and defensive instincts along with a high compete level but the knock on him was that his puck skills were subpar. It’s hard too say how much those have improved as Carolinas system will hide that to a large degree so bringing him into our system is probably going to be a bad fit.

Much rather bring back Tanev for a couple years and have him close out his career as a Canuck.