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LemonSauceD said:
Yes you’re right, I was looking at his previous season’s ice time and glossed over that season.

He’s had some nights where he’s played as low as 15 for a couple nights and as high as 20. Kinda weird Lol
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Hey man, minds change. Did you know that yes can really be no even during?

:teach2:
 
MS said:
The priority is icing the best team for next year. And the best mix. If guys like Zadorov and Joshua walk, we're going to end up paying through the teeth for other big physical players who probably won't be as effective.

Zadorov is the sort of player who will remain in demand around the league. If you sign him for 24-25 and then you see an opportunity to upgrade in 25-26 ... he isn't going to be that difficult to move.

After watching Cole's level of performance drop as this season has gone along, I have very limited confidence that banking on his legs to last another year is a good idea. We're already kind of nursing him to the finish line this season.
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Regarding the bolded, I agree. Their contention window is the short-term. Which why I'd rather have the flexibility to upgrade RD (especially with Hronek) in flux), which is a bigger need. And you already have a better player than Z to be the primary 2LD.

I get the concern with Cole. But I think you get more milage out of him in a 3LD role. I also think the Canucks would benefit from rotating their bottom-of-the-lineup players in and out for load management - a view I've held generally. I think most teams would benefit from some load management practices (i.e. rotating basically everyone but their top players out of the lineup, to keep them healthier).
 
bossram said:
Sure. In a couple of aspects, I think they are similar. I also think Z is better. I don't want to bring Myers back. I don't want to bring Z back at the price he will command.
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I agree in a vacuum if he is asking more than $5Mthan he can walk. But I don’t think that’s the case.

$3.9-4.3M is well within market price for his type. A bit more is a slight overpayment, anywhere near $5M is definitely on the more expensive side but still wouldn’t call it an mega overpayment based on market price.

I just don’t understand why we wouldn’t actually commit to using that cap to re sign a 4/5 guy. I mean what better alternative is there for a prime aged defenseman, what other options are out there that precisely bring the qualities he brings to the table?

It’s not like he’s commanding for $5.5M+. As I said earlier, you can probably bring the overall cap lower by giving him an extra year or two buyout friendly and minimal trade protection so if in a pinch his contract suddenly isn’t unmovable. There will always be takers for big defenseman like him so I’m not even remotely worried about giving him some extra term, especially for a 28 year old guy.
 
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oceanchild said:
Tanev is coming back, we will
Re-sign Myers as well and I wouldn’t be surprised if we keep Friedman for depth with Juulsens. I am not sure Hronek is back. I think he might find his way out in a cap crunch. I can see us going after Guentzel and/Toffoli in the off-season to round out the top 6.

This team is going to set themselves up for EP(D) and Willander to be cheap options on Defense and load up the forward group in the next couple years IMO.
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Re-signing Hronek is critically more important than acquiring/ re-signing all of Guentzel/ Tanev/ Toffoli/ Myers.
 
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LemonSauceD said:
I agree in a vacuum if he is asking more than $5Mthan he can walk. But I don’t think that’s the case.

$3.9-4.3M is well within market price for his type. A bit more is a slight overpayment, anywhere near $5M is definitely on the more expensive side but still wouldn’t call it an mega overpayment based on market price.

I just don’t understand why we wouldn’t actually commit to using that cap to re sign a 4/5 guy. I mean what better alternative is there for a prime aged defenseman, what other options are out there that precisely bring the qualities he brings to the table?

It’s not like he’s commanding for $5.5M+. As I said earlier, you can probably bring the overall cap lower by giving him an extra year or two buyout friendly and minimal trade protection so if in a pinch his contract suddenly isn’t unmovable. There will always be takers for big defenseman like him so I’m not even remotely worried about giving him some extra term, especially for a 28 year old guy.
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I'm not really interested in bringing Zadorov back at $4M x 4, and I suspect he will get more. I don't really get the "qualities" he brings, other than size. No one has articulated them. Is he particularly good at rush defense? In-zone defense? Breakouts? PKing? He's kinda okay at all of them, but not notable.

My reasoning is that if we're going into that range to retain a 4/5 guy with term, I'd rather allocate that space to RD, a bigger need.

I think you can find a cheaper player to give you some quality minutes for 3LD, who also will retain flexibility by having less term. Ian Cole is an obvious candidate, but dealer's choice.
 
MS said:
The priority is icing the best team for next year. And the best mix. If guys like Zadorov and Joshua walk, we're going to end up paying through the teeth for other big physical players who probably won't be as effective.

Zadorov is the sort of player who will remain in demand around the league. If you sign him for 24-25 and then you see an opportunity to upgrade in 25-26 ... he isn't going to be that difficult to move.

After watching Cole's level of performance drop as this season has gone along, I have very limited confidence that banking on his legs to last another year is a good idea. We're already kind of nursing him to the finish line this season.
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Zadorov is stepping in to the 2nd pairing dman zone and not looking out of place. He will be steady for a few more years.

And Cole is exactly as you say. Bottom pairing veteran shutdown guy. The miles are high and in a limited capacity he's good but we have seen the best of Cole and there will be an opportunity to upgrade that role this off season. Or at least easy to find a replacement.

It comes down to how difficult it will be to replace these guys and in my estimation Zadorov isnnearly irreplacable. I'm not understanding the turn away from 4.5M type of deal, you'll pay more for worse in free agency.
 
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LemonSauceD said:
I agree in a vacuum if he is asking more than $5Mthan he can walk. But I don’t think that’s the case.

$3.9-4.3M is well within market price for his type. A bit more is a slight overpayment, anywhere near $5M is definitely on the more expensive side but still wouldn’t call it an mega overpayment based on market price.

I just don’t understand why we wouldn’t actually commit to using that cap to re sign a 4/5 guy. I mean what better alternative is there for a prime aged defenseman, what other options are out there that precisely bring the qualities he brings to the table?

It’s not like he’s commanding for $5.5M+. As I said earlier, you can probably bring the overall cap lower by giving him an extra year or two buyout friendly and minimal trade protection so if in a pinch his contract suddenly isn’t unmovable. There will always be takers for big defenseman like him so I’m not even remotely worried about giving him some extra term, especially for a 28 year old guy.
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Seravalli said Zadorov is looking at the Gudbranson deal and feels he's a better player and deserves more. I'd say a discount would be anything materially under $5M AAV, which I expect he may get on the open market. His value is going up currently, and will skyrocket if he has a good playoffs.
 
Hot take maybe but I don’t think the top pairing would be way less effective if Hughes was paired with Tanev or especially Matt Roy.

Lose offense but gain defensive ability, get a better PK dman too.

But with Tanev I’d worry about giving that pairing big minutes since he’s pretty old.
 
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If you can do Zadorov for 4x4 I think you do it all day. $5m I think I balk though, and he probably will get that from someone on the open market. The question is whether he likes the Vancouver fit enough to take a haircut.
 
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SelltheTeamFrancesco said:
Brenden Dillion would be an interesting Zadorov replacement if he comes to the Canucks and is willing to take a home town discount. Obviously less term but I think they are similar players
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If you can’t sign Zadorov I’d probably pivot to a right side guy like Tanev or Walker to fill out the top four and figure out Juulsen’s left-side partner for the bottom pair afterward.
 
Szechwan said:
If you can do Zadorov for 4x4 I think you do it all day. $5m I think I balk though, and he probably will get that from someone on the open market. The question is whether he likes the Vancouver fit enough to take a haircut.
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If that was available we'd have signed him already.

With myers at six for what seems like forever, and real gud at four, I think by playoffs end 5x5 will seem reasonable, and no reason why zad doesn't get that in ufa. We might as we'll keep him for an extra few hundred thousand, his skillset isn't easily replaced, and the long reach of zad ,myers, soucy is underrated here, surely the coaches all love it.

Maybe it's a bit of an overpay, but imo worth it for the deterrence factor alone, and really it's only just over one million raise.

If he's looking for roughly twenty five million, I wouldn't be surprised if we offer him six years and four ish million to stay where he's already fit in quite well and seems comfortable.
 
TruGr1t said:
If you can’t sign Zadorov I’d probably pivot to a right side guy like Tanev or Walker to fill out the top four and figure out Juulsen’s left-side partner for the bottom pair afterward.
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I don't think Tocchet is going to love the idea of Hughes/Hronek/Walker as 3 of his top 4 dmen.
 
i just don't think cole, zadorov and soucy should all be on the same roster. they're all #5s that can occaisonally play up the lineup. soucy is already signed at a good number. just keep him and try to find a 3/4 guy to replace cole and zadorov
 
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credulous said:
i just don't think cole, zadorov and soucy should all be on the same roster. they're all #5s that can occaisonally play up the lineup. soucy is already signed at a good number. just keep him and try to find a 3/4 guy to replace cole and zadorov
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The issue is probably more acutely they are all left shot and keeping them means you can’t sign or replace Myers and then you’ve got a big hole on the right side.
 
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TruGr1t said:
The issue is probably more acutely they are all left shot and keeping them means you can’t sign or replace Myers and then you’ve got a big hole on the right side.
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Exactly.

This is why, even with the tremendous success management had with their signings last off-season, there was something odd about the accumulation of left shot guys. Did they know their head coach was so adamant about the lefty/righty business? Was there a glitch in the "alignment"? (It was so strange watching them trying to turn Cole McWard into a partner for Hughes.)
 
Lindgren said:
Exactly.

This is why, even with the tremendous success management had with their signings last off-season, there was something odd about the accumulation of left shot guys. Did they know their head coach was so adamant about the lefty/righty business? Was there a glitch in the "alignment"? (It was so strange watching them trying to turn Cole McWard into a partner for Hughes.)
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Well, Zadorov was acquired in response to Soucy going down long term. Before that they had 3 LD and 4 RD on the roster full time.
 
Vector said:
Well, Zadorov was acquired in response to Soucy going down long term. Before that they had 3 LD and 4 RD on the roster full time.
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Going into the season they had Hughes and new acquisitions Soucy and Cole on the left, and on the right Hronek, holdover Myers (widely regarded at that time as an extreme negative asset), and ... hope. The hope came through when, after Juulsen struggled a bit, and then new acquisition Friedman proved to be good as a stop gap but not more than that, Juulsen returned to the line-up and did what he did. So two of those four RD were essentially AHL/NHL tweeners till Juulsen surprised.

Looking at the Canucks blue-line depth going into the season, it seems clear to me that they were much stronger on the left than the right. (Sure, that goes for most teams, but it still seems odd to me that the only right-side addition post Hronek was Friedman, and the right side still strikes me as their biggest need.)
 
Vector said:
I think Soucy has pretty definitely shown he’s more than a #5.
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I don't think fans really know how to identify dmen on a depth chart, top 6 forwards so much easier.

There's like 20 guys who get called #1 dmen and then so much variance when it comes to how the next 50 guys are called #2, #3's or even #4's and so on.
 
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