Toggle sidebar

Canucks News, Rumours, and & Fantasy GM | Playoffs Approaching

Status
Not open for further replies.
LemonSauceD said:
I don’t mind adding more term to try and bring the cap down for Zadorov. Like $4.0-4.2M x 5 or 6 that’s buyout friendly of course and no trade protection. Nothing about Zadorov suggests he’s going to walk to a bottom feeder team and get paid 500-700k more than the above.

Zadorov is a unicorn type of defenseman. Your not going to find many defenseman with his size, physicality, deterrence while also being exceptionally athletic, quick, and versatile. And if there’s a left handed defenseman in the future that is knocking down the door, Zadorov will still retain his value. He will never not be a commodity barring significant injuries. Zadorov over the last 3 years (since he became of Flame) has been noticeably steady and consistent as a 4B/5th defenseman.

Also, you cannot compare Zadorov to Myers. The only thing remotely similar about them is their large frame, the rest ends there, statistically, eye test, play style, etc suggests this.
Click to expand...
Zad thinks the game extremely well. He's well spoken, very self aware and seems to be always making corrections to his play. Reporters love to ask him questions cuz his answers are usually well thought out. He was smart enough to see the writing on the wall in Calgary and GTFO. He's also a recent SC winner. Lefty vs righty aside, I'd rather have Zads than Hronek.

Myers plays well when the team is playing well. Myers just wants to not make any mistakes and sometimes get in on the offense as well as the participate in the occasional punching leaf captains in the face and that's ok by me.

I support resigning both players.

I also supporting not doing a Sbisa and support evaluating their playoff performance before making any final decisions.
 
mathonwy said:
Zad thinks the game extremely well. He's well spoken, very self aware and seems to be always making corrections to his play. Reporters love to ask him questions cuz his answers are usually well thought out. He was smart enough to see the writing on the wall in Calgary and GTFO. He's also a recent SC winner. Lefty vs righty aside, I'd rather have Zads than Hronek.

Myers plays well when the team is playing well. Myers just wants to not make any mistakes and sometimes get in on the offense as well as the participate in the occasional punching leaf captains in the face and that's ok by me.

I support resigning both players.

I also supporting not doing a Sbisa and support evaluating their playoff performance before making any final decisions.
Click to expand...
Zad hasn’t won a cup

I love Zad but taking him over Hronek is a step too far. Over Myers? Sure.
 
  • Like
Reactions: LordBacon, vancityluongo, Pastor Of Muppetz and 1 other person
credulous said:
i just don't think cole, zadorov and soucy should all be on the same roster. they're all #5s that can occaisonally play up the lineup. soucy is already signed at a good number. just keep him and try to find a 3/4 guy to replace cole and zadorov
Click to expand...

And yet the Canucks have been good defensively this season. I think that because our top pairing is on the small side it's balanced by having big, crease clearing defencemen for the other pairings. Additionally it helps to manage the types of saves Demko has to make and gives him ample room and space and limits rebound opportunities.

But apart from that I basically agree with what many are saying - Zadorov at 4 or maybe 4.5 I guess I'd be ok with but not 5. Definitely surprised by Hronek, I think him or his agent are being a bit delusional if they think they are getting 8 as I don't think that many teams will offer that. It's also quite risky to pass up a good long-term offer now over 1M per season or whatever.
 
Last edited:
mathonwy said:
Zad thinks the game extremely well. He's well spoken, very self aware and seems to be always making corrections to his play. Reporters love to ask him questions cuz his answers are usually well thought out. He was smart enough to see the writing on the wall in Calgary and GTFO. He's also a recent SC winner. Lefty vs righty aside, I'd rather have Zads than Hronek.

Myers plays well when the team is playing well. Myers just wants to not make any mistakes and sometimes get in on the offense as well as the participate in the occasional punching leaf captains in the face and that's ok by me.

I support resigning both players.

I also supporting not doing a Sbisa and support evaluating their playoff performance before making any final decisions.
Click to expand...
Is this a joke Hronek plays almost 7 mins more a game compared to Zadorov. He plays against the teams best players and gets the hardest minutes. Zadorov plays 17 mins a game since coming to the Canucks third pairing minutes and is not even driving play. I could care less about a big hit here or there. Zadorov is not even close to Hronek. There is a reason he was traded for a late third. Myers is better than Zadorov.
 
  • Like
Reactions: LordBacon, MarkusNaslund19, bossram and 1 other person
What do you guys think the value of Boeser would be at the draft? Or in general, his value after this season.

I find it very confusing and challenging trying to gauge his value atm
 
SelltheTeamFrancesco said:
Is this a joke Hronek plays almost 7 mins more a game compared to Zadorov. He plays against the teams best players and gets the hardest minutes. Zadorov plays 17 mins a game since coming to the Canucks third pairing minutes and is not even driving play. I could care less about a big hit here or there. Zadorov is not even close to Hronek. There is a reason he was traded for a late third. Myers is better than Zadorov.
Click to expand...
I think Zads brings his own brand of intangibles to this team and I’m a fan.

You aren’t. That’s fine.
 
LemonSauceD said:
What do you guys think the value of Boeser would be at the draft? Or in general, his value after this season.

I find it very confusing and challenging trying to gauge his value atm
Click to expand...

He'll be coming off a roughly 40-goal / 70-point season with just 1 year left @ 6.65

I think there are definitely teams out there bereft of natural offensive ability that would jump at him - however we're not exactly loaded on that front, either.

So I don't know how good of an idea it would be to trade him. As flawed and frustrating as he is, we need his offense and I'm not sure how we would replace it. Would really have to depend on what they were going to use his cap space on. Like, we can't plug in a Suter-type player next to Miller and expect to get similar results.
 
If Hronek pushes too hard for a guy benefitting as much as he does playing with Quintin then I hope they try and trade him and get an even better RHD.
 
Nucker101 said:
If Matt Roy makes it to free agency, he'd be such a beautiful fit next to Hughes.
Click to expand...
I don't wanna come off as ungrateful towards Hronek as he has surely played a large part in Quintin levelling up. I just think everyone has a proper level and if they aren't willing to sign at the right numbers then they should find a player who more appropriately deserves such numbers.

I don't know much about Roy personally. Currently I am on strike against watching LAK games. 🛌
 
Don’t bring back Cole

Zadorov max for me is a 4x4 or so and he’s not taking that. Unique player and I love watching him play but I think they have to look for less risky bets to replace the physicality (looking at the Jets Dmen).

This is a player who’s played a lot of games - I’m not giving the 3LD a 5-6 year deal at 4+ given age and mileage.

Have to bring back Joshua. Less mileage, less pedigree to garner a Zadorov deal. Younger. Would be fine with essentially any realistic deal (~3.5x4?) or whatever

Hronek’s second half pace has been more of a 25 point dman, and a +0 rather than the 70 point/+70 rating pace. Obviously expected things to normalize but did not anticipate him being a toss up on hitting 50 points.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Bleach Clean
Peen said:
Don’t bring back Cole

Zadorov max for me is a 4x4 or so and he’s not taking that. Unique player and I love watching him play but I think they have to look for less risky bets to replace the physicality (looking at the Jets Dmen).

This is a player who’s played a lot of games - I’m not giving the 3LD a 5-6 year deal at 4+ given age and mileage.

Have to bring back Joshua. Less mileage, less pedigree to garner a Zadorov deal. Younger. Would be fine with essentially any realistic deal (~3.5x4?) or whatever

Hronek’s second half pace has been more of a 25 point dman, and a +0 rather than the 70 point/+70 rating pace. Obviously expected things to normalize but did not anticipate him being a toss up on hitting 50 points.
Click to expand...


If you have the time, give a listen to Drance's take on Hronek in their latest podcast. Ethan Bear gets mentioned a few times (not that they are comparable, he's talking about their relative impact with Hughes).
 
Bleach Clean said:
If you have the time, give a listen to Drance's take on Hronek in their latest podcast. Ethan Bear gets mentioned a few times (not that they are comparable, he's talking about their relative impact with Hughes).
Click to expand...
He’s suggested that before and I don’t have time to hear it. It feels like he’s trying to hedge because he’s said they should just give him the 8x8 or whatever as well.

I think I remember reading stuff about how Goldobin’s impact with Pettersson was comparable to other linemates as well. That Bear thing seems like that.

He’ll never be a matchup guy but I think the top four D thing gets over thought. If you have one, and there’s a fair contract to be had, just keep them. Like I get Hronek’s worts and I think I’m the most “meh, I lean neutral” on Hronek on this board. But he’s still got a fit on this roster.

I was looking through the contract comparables the other day and I feel like this is going to be a lot tougher than a meet in the middle at 7.25 thing. I can see Hronek’s side looking at Chabot and Sergachev’s production and aiming for those, + making the argument that the cap is rising. So to them, maybe 8 is really their idea of “settling”.

And on the VAN side… there’s a lot of 5.25-6.5 comparables in terms of on ice impact. Virtually no deals signed in that 6.8-7.9 range for those 35-55 point guys. Like you either slot in at 8+ or that 6 range… and from VAN’s perspective, you can probably see why they think 6.5 is pretty close to their best with maybe a few hundred k to adjust for the rising cap.

Just feel like there’s a good chance that the gap of what a settle looks like will be bigger than what both sides feel comfortable with. And that’s just the AAV. What’s the protection like? Is it 7 or 8? The Pettersson structure was apparently favourable for the player from a cash perspective… will ownership be okay doing something similar again?
 
  • Like
Reactions: racerjoe and Vector
Peen said:
He’s suggested that before and I don’t have time to hear it. It feels like he’s trying to hedge because he’s said they should just give him the 8x8 or whatever as well.
Click to expand...


He does advocate for the 8x8. Bear was used as a template for strong metrics. Hronek has more or less matched his underlying results while providing much more offense. (paraphrase)


Peen said:
I think I remember reading stuff about how Goldobin’s impact with Pettersson was comparable to other linemates as well. That Bear thing seems like that.

He’ll never be a matchup guy but I think the top four D thing gets over thought. If you have one, and there’s a fair contract to be had, just keep them. Like I get Hronek’s worts and I think I’m the most “meh, I lean neutral” on Hronek on this board. But he’s still got a fit on this roster.

I was looking through the contract comparables the other day and I feel like this is going to be a lot tougher than a meet in the middle at 7.25 thing. I can see Hronek’s side looking at Chabot and Sergachev’s production and aiming for those, + making the argument that the cap is rising. So to them, maybe 8 is really their idea of “settling”.

And on the VAN side… there’s a lot of 5.25-6.5 comparables in terms of on ice impact. Virtually no deals signed in that 6.8-7.9 range for those 35-55 point guys. Like you either slot in at 8+ or that 6 range… and from VAN’s perspective, you can probably see why they think 6.5 is pretty close to their best with maybe a few hundred k to adjust for the rising cap.

Just feel like there’s a good chance that the gap of what a settle looks like will be bigger than what both sides feel comfortable with. And that’s just the AAV. What’s the protection like? Is it 7 or 8? The Pettersson structure was apparently favourable for the player from a cash perspective… will ownership be okay doing something similar again?
Click to expand...


8 is better to get the AAV down. Given that his age was one of the factors for acquiring him, I see little reason in not maximizing the term. Like if he doesn't sign here at $8m per, then he has to get the same overall dollar value in 7 years somewhere else. The AAV goes up to $9.14m to compensate. Very unlikely for him. He is incentivized to sign here.

Toews is that $7.25 comparable. Severson has been mentioned by Sat Shah on more than one occasion (he's being fed info imo), but he's at $6.25m AAV.
 
Pastor Of Muppetz said:
The team is going to veer into a top heavy salary structure no matter what (this is what happens when you have 5 all stars on the team)...Its not the worst problem to have...This is another reason why you dont trade Lekker or Willander...If you're going to cut salary, I would start with Boeser and Garland.

We've also tried not having a prime aged RHD the last number of years, and how has that turned out..?..We've had one of the weakest RHD in the league for years, and it is only now that you can look at our D core 1-7, and say thats pretty damn good.

Not being able to re-sign Hronek would be a failure/ disappointment by the management group considering what they gave up to acquire him...Hroneks impact on the team is vastly underrated around here.
Click to expand...
Our lack of a first pair RHD is relevant for sure, I wouldn’t say prime aged as Tanev was a good age when he was here but the results lacked. The issue with this is that it coincided with a general lack of depth and talent on the d core as a whole, to the point that it lead a desperate Benning to take a large swing at OEL.

I agree with Garland and Boeser being possible or even probable cap casualties and potentially Mikheyev if he can play well enough to get his value up. I think these moves may need to happen irrespective of what happens with Hronek to round out the team.

As for the initial point, I do agree that we will become naturally too heavy. It’s a part of the process when you draft young players that become stars and get to the stage in the contract cycle that they are good enough to win. But how deep can that group go and how much of the cap as a percentage can a team allocate to its “core” group. It isn’t something I have an answer for, but it is an important question. EP, Hughes and Demko are our most important players, followed by Miller and then Hronek and Boeser. You could argue that EP signed under market value, and that the rest of this group has provided surplus value on contracts this year. If you overpay Hronek and I think $8m is, then that group accounts for 54% of the cap next season (without including OELs buy out) I would have to look back and see if a team has ever won with that kind of cap allocation concentration.

I also need to address the Toffoli and Guentzel idea, we had a shooting heater for a large part of the year. I am. It convinced this team can score enough with a sustainable shooting percentage. I would trade the combination of Mikheyev, Boeser and Garland for Toffoli, Guentzel and whatever we can get with the remaining funds in a heat beat. But if we can somehow make them work with a decent d group and a team that plays a solid system and is strong defensively as a unit then I think we have a better chance.

Finally, I think Hronek can bring back a substantial haul that no one else outside the three franchise cornerstones can.
This will add to that next wave that we absolutely need to be successful and give us a longer larger window.
 
40-50 point RHD, 26, small, very meh defensively, eats minutes playing alongside Hughes, rejects an 8 year $6.5M contract, wants $7.5M+.

I think you trade him and probably return the equivalent of what it took to get him. A 1st and a 2nd or an equivalent asset.

Sign Tanev/Roy (or both).
 
  • Like
Reactions: Canucks LB
the hronek situation is tricky

i don't think they do well in a trade simply because anyone acquiring him is gonna know they're facing a tough negotiation and he's got that arb to free agency out if he wants it. maybe if they can find a team that has a really good winger to deal?

i also think signing him long term is questionable because hughes and hronek are both undersized and along with the canucks top prospect being another dman lacking size in willander that puts them in a potential bind down the road. other than pettersson no dmen in their system really project as physical. mynio, kudryavtsev and even johansson and mcward are all 6'1 or less

given that you probably want to sign him to a mid range deal but i doubt he wants that unless it's for big dollars and i dunno the canucks have the cap situation to really entertain that

it's going to be interesting to see what direction they go
 
Of course any upcoming free agent who plays with Hughes is going to drive their stock up considerably. Happened with Bear and now Hronek. I'm sorry Hronek is good but he doesn't deserve anywhere near Quinn's contract. 6.5 is very fair and the max I would do is 7. Hronek's second half play tailed off bigtime, lately he's looked more like a mini chaos giraffe rather than an offensive counterpart to Hughes.
I miss the days where players taken a butof a discount to play for a winning team.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Flik
If Sam Reinhart makes it to UFA—would you be open to the Canucks spending what it would take to bring him to Vancouver?

Considerations:
  • His ties to Vancouver could favor the Canucks more than it would with the typical UFA.
  • It would likely come at the cost of moving Brock Boeser.
 
IMG_6160.jpeg
 
  • Haha
  • Like
Reactions: Flik, Grip it N RYP it, PavelBure10 and 1 other person
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Top Bottom