Canucks News, Rumours, and & Fantasy GM | Playoffs Approaching

[sandwichbird2023]

Our roster is generally lacking size/toughness as it is and our two most physical mid-roster players (Zadorov and Joshua) are pending UFAs. It's a legitimate concern. It's hard to find big/tough players that can play, it's generally expensive to bring them in, and if those guys leave it will be very difficult to replace what they bring.

I like what I'm seeing out of Podkolzin the last couple weeks. He might not bring much offense but he does hussle and hit lots, and create enough turnovers to generate some chances. I think he will be a key player in our bottom 6 next season. Of course keeping Joshua would be nice, but I think Pod can replace some of the physicality Joshua provide.

I think we agree on the evaluation of Zadorov as a 4/5 actually. I'm not remotely saying he's a bad player.

It seems where we disagree is what he is worth paying. I think Z is looking to get a minimum of a $4M x 4 contract (likely more) in UFA and I don't think it's worth paying him that, especially when he ideally slotted as your 3LD.

Cole's defensive metrics are generally solid, it's almost a guarantee he'd come back cheaper than Z and on a 1 year deal, and I think they can get the optimal performance out of him at 3LD, which is why I would bring him back.

Use the flexibility saved to add a legit top-four player at 2RD.

I was also leaning towards letting Zadorov walk, but have slowly changed my mind on it. His physicality does help defending, and will make a difference in a playoff series. He also can skate well enough to recover if he does make a bad read. His outlet pass is also not bad. The coaching staff has even tried him in front of Talbot tonight with the goalie pulled. I think he brings enough of the lacking aspects to the blueline that makes it more balanced.

With Soucy's injuries this season, it doesn't hurt to keep Z around to 1) fill in when needed, 2) give Soucy some competition for the 2nd pairing and keep both motivated, and 3) he can carry the 3rd pairing this saving the cap allocation for the 3RD spot.

I think keeping him might remove some cap flexibility, but provide more roster flexibility.

i just don't think cole, zadorov and soucy should all be on the same roster. they're all #5s that can occaisonally play up the lineup. soucy is already signed at a good number. just keep him and try to find a 3/4 guy to replace cole and zadorov

It's not that easy acquiring a 3/4 guy, let alone 2 of them if you let both Cole and Zadorov go. If there is 1 that is working for you, we should try to keep him if possible. Something about a bird in hand.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Sure. In a couple of aspects, I think they are similar. I also think Z is better. I don't want to bring Myers back. I don't want to bring Z back at the price he will command.

Interesting, why do you think Zadorov is better than Myers? He certainly doesn't get used like he is better...

On the larger topic, I think you have the right of it: Zadorov isn't worth re-signing at what he is likely to be paid. Size/Toughness matters in the league, but not more than just targeting the better player.

The rumours have them prioritizing Joshua, Blueger and Myers after Hronek. Let's see what's left.

 

[vancityluongo]

there will be other players available over the summer that no one is thinking about now, similar to how travis sanheim was very likely available this past offseason or how the oilers landed ekholm.

the owen power for hoglander chat a little while back had me thinking about the premise - would buffalo be interested in hog or another young forward for mattias samuelsson? with byram in the fold now, add samuelsson, power, and dahlin, and that's a lot of lhd.

i would explore a deal like that for a good contract over overcommitting on zadarov just to keep the asset. the canucks need to make more astute pro scouting moves to keep building.

 

[F A N]

there will be other players available over the summer that no one is thinking about now, similar to how travis sanheim was very likely available this past offseason or how the oilers landed ekholm.

the owen power for hoglander chat a little while back had me thinking about the premise - would buffalo be interested in hog or another young forward for mattias samuelsson? with byram in the fold now, add samuelsson, power, and dahlin, and that's a lot of lhd.

i would explore a deal like that for a good contract over overcommitting on zadarov just to keep the asset. the canucks need to make more astute pro scouting moves to keep building.

Ya. I think if we can find a long term solution that would be great and worth paying for. Big Z is looking to get paid. He might not get it though. He did hit UFA a couple years back and ended up re-signing with Calgary. But that was then.

I keep saying this but the problem with paying Big Z top 4 money is that you presumably want him to play in your Top 4. Soucy, for example, we had hoped could step up to the Top 4 but even if he's logging 17-18 minutes he's still a good defenseman at $3.25M AAV.

Samuelsson is being paid premium defensive D money and he can't stay healthy. I think there's a lot of risk there. But ya, trade options should be explored. Montreal has some young D depth that they eventually have to figure out. There's also Chychrun who Tocchet is familiar with but the price will be high.

 

[oceanchild]

Re-signing Hronek is critically more important than acquiring/ re-signing all of Guentzel/ Tanev/ Toffoli/ Myers.

In isolation for sure. When paired with possible options it is not as clear. It depends on what he wants in his next contract. It is no fault of Hronek but the OEL buy out is going to put us at a significant disadvantage and he may not fit salary wise. We can’t become a team that is only Hronek, Hughes, Miller, Pettersson, Boeser and Demko with no depth. We tried that already (minus Hronek) and we sucked.

I also think we don’t have to much in forward prospect depth. Bains and Raty look to be bottom of the line up type players, Pod looks to be a middle 6 kind of guy (projecting them out) and Lekk a top 6. We are currently 2 top 6 players short now, with only one prospect looking like a top 6 and him being a couple years out (possibly).

One thing I don’t think we have talked enough about it what a Hoglander extension looks like as well. If he can get to say 25 goals, he is going to cost a pretty penny. This is in addition to Boeser coming up at the same time.

So in short, our top 6 is between 2-4 players light and if Hronek was to cash in hard we might find ourselves choosing mediocrity. If we trade him for a really good prospect and a first (again if he wants top dollar) we can possibly get a RHD prospect back or a really good Too 6 prospect.

 

[credulous]

It's not that easy acquiring a 3/4 guy, let alone 2 of them if you let both Cole and Zadorov go. If there is 1 that is working for you, we should try to keep him if possible. Something about a bird in hand.

you're not wrong (and they may end up keeping zadorov for exactly that reason) but any money you pay to zadorov (or cole) is money you don't have if a 3/4 guy becomes available

 

[bossram]

I was also leaning towards letting Zadorov walk, but have slowly changed my mind on it. His physicality does help defending, and will make a difference in a playoff series. He also can skate well enough to recover if he does make a bad read. His outlet pass is also not bad. The coaching staff has even tried him in front of Talbot tonight with the goalie pulled. I think he brings enough of the lacking aspects to the blueline that makes it more balanced.

With Soucy's injuries this season, it doesn't hurt to keep Z around to 1) fill in when needed, 2) give Soucy some competition for the 2nd pairing and keep both motivated, and 3) he can carry the 3rd pairing this saving the cap allocation for the 3RD spot.

I think keeping him might remove some cap flexibility, but provide more roster flexibility.

It's not that easy acquiring a 3/4 guy, let alone 2 of them if you let both Cole and Zadorov go. If there is 1 that is working for you, we should try to keep him if possible. Something about a bird in hand.

I largely disagree with the bolded. Other than his next contract being an overpayment, I think moving on from Z gives the roster a better makeup because you would preferably allocate those dollars to a RD2 upgrade, rather than have a top-four salary on your 3rd pair (and likely have Tyler Myers coming back as 2RD instead.

Even tonight against the Kings, I thought Z was fine-good, but the "big" moments of physicality ended up being a detriment. He had that big hit in the first period, but the consequence of that was LA maintained forward progress with the puck, and with Z caught up ice after the hit, LA easily established a forecheck and OPZ in the Canucks' end. Once Z got back and made a recovery, he flung an outlet pass toward Aman that would have easily been picked off, had it not been for some crafty stickwork from Aman to lift the King's stick just as the puck made it to both of them. As for Z at net front...I take zero stock in that.

 

[bossram]

Interesting, why do you think Zadorov is better than Myers? He certainly doesn't get used like he is better...

On the larger topic, I think you have the right of it: Zadorov isn't worth re-signing at what he is likely to be paid. Size/Toughness matters in the league, but not more than just targeting the better player.

The rumours have them prioritizing Joshua, Blueger and Myers after Hronek. Let's see what's left.

Zadorov has typically had better defensive impacts than Myers, which is why I would rate him better.

But I still wouldn't bring either back, unless the prices were very favourable to the Canucks. In the case of Z, this is simply not going to happen.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

In isolation for sure. When paired with possible options it is not as clear. It depends on what he wants in his next contract. It is no fault of Hronek but the OEL buy out is going to put us at a significant disadvantage and he may not fit salary wise. We can’t become a team that is only Hronek, Hughes, Miller, Pettersson, Boeser and Demko with no depth. We tried that already (minus Hronek) and we sucked.

I also think we don’t have to much in forward prospect depth. Bains and Raty look to be bottom of the line up type players, Pod looks to be a middle 6 kind of guy (projecting them out) and Lekk a top 6. We are currently 2 top 6 players short now, with only one prospect looking like a top 6 and him being a couple years out (possibly).

One thing I don’t think we have talked enough about it what a Hoglander extension looks like as well. If he can get to say 25 goals, he is going to cost a pretty penny. This is in addition to Boeser coming up at the same time.

So in short, our top 6 is between 2-4 players light and if Hronek was to cash in hard we might find ourselves choosing mediocrity. If we trade him for a really good prospect and a first (again if he wants top dollar) we can possibly get a RHD prospect back or a really good Too 6 prospect.

The team is going to veer into a top heavy salary structure no matter what (this is what happens when you have 5 all stars on the team)...Its not the worst problem to have...This is another reason why you dont trade Lekker or Willander...If you're going to cut salary, I would start with Boeser and Garland.

We've also tried not having a prime aged RHD the last number of years, and how has that turned out..?..We've had one of the weakest RHD in the league for years, and it is only now that you can look at our D core 1-7, and say thats pretty damn good.

Not being able to re-sign Hronek would be a failure/ disappointment by the management group considering what they gave up to acquire him...Hroneks impact on the team is vastly underrated around here.

 

[Vector]

This is actually a fun little read.

---

“I think Z is the funniest guy around,” said Podkolzin. “Sometimes I sit near Millsy at a table, and we sit near each other. It is always good jokes and some fun after the wins. I call Millsy dad.”


Podkolzin then screamed ‘DAD!’ across the locker room and Miller responded with ‘SON!’

 

[Szechwan]

This is actually a fun little read.

---

“I think Z is the funniest guy around,” said Podkolzin. “Sometimes I sit near Millsy at a table, and we sit near each other. It is always good jokes and some fun after the wins. I call Millsy dad.”


Podkolzin then screamed ‘DAD!’ across the locker room and Miller responded with ‘SON!’

It's crazy to see Miller's transformation as a leader over the past 4 years. I think the character stuff was probably always overblown, but you can't deny he has made some really huge strides in that area as well.

 

[Vector]

It's crazy to see Miller's transformation as a leader over the past 4 years. I think the character stuff was probably always overblown, but you can't dent he has made some really huge strides in that area as well.

During the pre-game "show" against the Canadiens, Satiar Shah brought up the disconnect between the public and media perception of Miller and what he's like in the dressing room.

-said that it's true Pettersson and Miller aren't friends
-he's really well liked in the locker room; is very open and helpful to young players
-with his teammates, knows when to push and back-off
-his on-ice outbursts and body language have lead to the public and media assume he's like that in the dressing room and that's just not true

Dayal wrote a really good article a year or two ago about Miller growing up and figuring out who he is and needs to be.

 

[sting101]

Zadorov has typically had better defensive impacts than Myers, which is why I would rate him better.

But I still wouldn't bring either back, unless the prices were very favourable to the Canucks. In the case of Z, this is simply not going to happen.

Ideally who are you bringing in then and at what cap hit?

 

[bossram]

Ideally who are you bringing in then and at what cap hit?

I suggested before, bring back Ian Cole for roughly the same price (I think plausibly even less) on a 1 year, for 3LD.

For the 2RD upgrade, obviously people will chatter about Tanev. Matt Roy is the UFA RD I am most interested in.

 

[sandwichbird2023]

I largely disagree with the bolded. Other than his next contract being an overpayment, I think moving on from Z gives the roster a better makeup because you would preferably allocate those dollars to a RD2 upgrade, rather than have a top-four salary on your 3rd pair (and likely have Tyler Myers coming back as 2RD instead.

Even tonight against the Kings, I thought Z was fine-good, but the "big" moments of physicality ended up being a detriment. He had that big hit in the first period, but the consequence of that was LA maintained forward progress with the puck, and with Z caught up ice after the hit, LA easily established a forecheck and OPZ in the Canucks' end. Once Z got back and made a recovery, he flung an outlet pass toward Aman that would have easily been picked off, had it not been for some crafty stickwork from Aman to lift the King's stick just as the puck made it to both of them. As for Z at net front...I take zero stock in that.

I guess it largely depends on who is available to fill the 2RD spot, will said player sign for "Zadorov's money", and if it is a short or long term fix.

For sure ideally having a legit prime age 2RD for 4-5m is better than bringing Z back, but only if you can get one for free (ie: UFA). Trading assets for one is probably robbing Peter to pay Paul, for a team that isn't loaded with picks or prospects.

I don't see too many RD as UFA that I would break the bank for. Matt Roy and Walker are interesting targets but you know they are going generate a bidding war. Tanev is a short term fix and he has regressed a lot.

There are more than 1 way to build a good D core, sometimes you just have to be flexible with your approach because we have a limited number of assets chasing a rare player-type, desperation could easily lead to bad decisions.

 

[SelltheTeamFrancesco]

With Zadorov playing 17 mins a game I don’t think the Canucks resign him. You don’t pay a defenceman 4-5 million to play third pairing minutes.

 

[Szechwan]

During the pre-game "show" against the Canadiens, Satiar Shah brought up the disconnect between the public and media perception of Miller and what he's like in the dressing room.

-said that it's true Pettersson and Miller aren't friends
-he's really well liked in the locker room; is very open and helpful to young players
-with his teammates, knows when to push and back-off
-his on-ice outbursts and body language have lead to the public and media assume he's like that in the dressing room and that's just not true

Dayal wrote a really good article a year or two ago about Miller growing up and figuring out who he is and needs to be.

Is that first bullet a typo? I can believe either way, it just seems a bit incongruent with the the rest of the post

 

[Vector]

Is that first bullet a typo? I can believe either way, it just seems a bit incongruent with the the rest of the post

Nope. He started off by acknowledging that Miller and Pettersson aren't friends.

He doesn't say it but the point he was trying to make was it doesn't matter. They are coworkers and are successful together, they don't need to be friends.

 

[sting101]

I suggested before, bring back Ian Cole for roughly the same price (I think plausibly even less) on a 1 year, for 3LD.

For the 2RD upgrade, obviously people will chatter about Tanev. Matt Roy is the UFA RD I am most interested in.

Will be interesting if LA lets Roy go. Their competitive window would suggest they sign him as i dont believe Brandt Clarke is ready to play that role but maybe they do a short term solution rather than giving him the kind of term he will want.

I would be interested in Roy as an upgrade to Myers as well and am also tentative to a Zadorov 4.5 with 4-5yrs behind Quinn Hughes as this seems like the ballpark were looking at now.

With Soucy already signed that starts to limit any flexibility and ability to sign or re sign top6 players. It's important that we be careful with the 3-5 rotation of D that they fit stylistically and in a decent cap slot. More important to have a better RD than LD given Soucy being locked down.

I think who actually ends up being available and at what amount as info becomes available might dictate the decision.

 

[VanJack]

Sportsnet is reporting that the Filip Hronek camp has turned down a long-term contract offer from the Canucks in the $6.5-$7m range, in the belief that he can get more when he hits free agency at the end of next season.

I could see another Pettersson situation happening, where if he isn't signed in the first few months of the season, he could be dealt. Would be unfortunate, because he was the centerpiece of the Horvat trade. But you can't risk a guy walking away for nothing.

Just another huge question mark on this Canuck blueline. The only guys guaranteed for next season are Hughes, Soucy and Juulsen.

 

[Hansen]

I'd do up to 8 for Hronek but 7.5 or less would be ideal. With his agent it isn't going to be a fun negotiation. He and Hughes have been the best pairing in the league this year though and if you have to grit your teeth and pay to keep it that way then you do it.

 

[bossram]

I guess it largely depends on who is available to fill the 2RD spot, will said player sign for "Zadorov's money", and if it is a short or long term fix.

For sure ideally having a legit prime age 2RD for 4-5m is better than bringing Z back, but only if you can get one for free (ie: UFA). Trading assets for one is probably robbing Peter to pay Paul, for a team that isn't loaded with picks or prospects.

I don't see too many RD as UFA that I would break the bank for. Matt Roy and Walker are interesting targets but you know they are going generate a bidding war. Tanev is a short term fix and he has regressed a lot.

There are more than 1 way to build a good D core, sometimes you just have to be flexible with your approach because we have a limited number of assets chasing a rare player-type, desperation could easily lead to bad decisions.

I would trade any assets for the right player. I don't see a trade as an issue, if it came to that.

I agree with the bolded. But given how some here have credulously described Zadorov as a "unicorn", I think the actual desperation-driven decision would be bringing Z back on an obvious overpay, because they feel they have no other option.

 

[Szechwan]

Hard to imagine the team not taking a big step back if all of Hronek, Zadorov, Myers and Cole aren't sticking around, despite their warts.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Zadorov has typically had better defensive impacts than Myers, which is why I would rate him better.

But I still wouldn't bring either back, unless the prices were very favourable to the Canucks. In the case of Z, this is simply not going to happen.

From my understanding, Zadorov trades slightly better defensive impacts with slightly worse offensive impacts compared Myers. Myers also wins out on the On Ice Expected Goals Differential (-7.7 to -14).

I see them as comparable, and with the price difference + RHD, Myers is the more attractive option to bring back.

Generally though, the dmen beyond Hughes and Hronek do not yield a 50%+ Shot Attempt % (even Soucy). Not good.

 

[F A N]

The team is going to veer into a top heavy salary structure no matter what (this is what happens when you have 5 all stars on the team)...Its not the worst problem to have...This is another reason why you dont trade Lekker or Willander...If you're going to cut salary, I would start with Boeser and Garland.

We've also tried not having a prime aged RHD the last number of years, and how has that turned out..?..We've had one of the weakest RHD in the league for years, and it is only now that you can look at our D core 1-7, and say thats pretty damn good.

Not being able to re-sign Hronek would be a failure/ disappointment by the management group considering what they gave up to acquire him...Hroneks impact on the team is vastly underrated around here.

Up front yes but on the back end? Our management's MO with the Penguins have been about finding value on the back end. Of course that's partly due to having to pay Crosby and Malkin.

But in at the start of the 2015-2016 season, they had Letang and then Scuderi. Scuderi was making less than Dupuis. The next year, they had Malkin, Crosby, and Kessel with their 2nd most expensive Dman (Maata) making slightly more than Hagelin.

In the later years it was a bit more balanced with Dumoulin and Maata making just over $4M a year and Schultz was making $5.5M.

The equivalent of Schultz' contract + a bit more (to account for Hronek being arguably better) would be around what Severson signed for. So accounting for an RFA year, adding a bit more, and it is around what Canucks are rumoured to have offered. I think the Canucks are probably intent on getting this done at less than $7M but might step upt to $7M the way they stepped up to $8M for Miller.