Canucks News, Rumours, and & Fantasy GM | Playoffs Approaching

[TruGr1t]

the hronek situation is tricky

i don't think they do well in a trade simply because anyone acquiring him is gonna know they're facing a tough negotiation and he's got that arb to free agency out if he wants it. maybe if they can find a team that has a really good winger to deal?

i also think signing him long term is questionable because hughes and hronek are both undersized and along with the canucks top prospect being another dman lacking size in willander that puts them in a potential bind down the road. other than pettersson no dmen in their system really project as physical. mynio, kudryavtsev and even johansson and mcward are all 6'1 or less

given that you probably want to sign him to a mid range deal but i doubt he wants that unless it's for big dollars and i dunno the canucks have the cap situation to really entertain that

it's going to be interesting to see what direction they go

Yeah this was discussed on the radio the other day. The Canucks are in tough spot, his value is already handicapped by the basic knowledge of his contract demands, which will make him an expensive, effectively unknown quantity to a new team. He could also say he has no intention of signing an extension with his new team and totally tank his value.

It will probably be tough to recoup the price paid, as some of that value was baked into his relatively cheap contract at the time.

 

[bossram]

Yeah this was discussed on the radio the other day. The Canucks are in tough spot, his value is already handicapped by the basic knowledge of his contract demands, which will make him an expensive, effectively unknown quantity to a new team. He could also say he has no intention of signing an extension with his new team and totally tank his value.

It will probably be tough to recoup the price paid, as some of that value was baked into his relatively cheap contract at the time.

Yep. It will be difficult to break even on a trade given everyone you're trading Hronek knows he's looking for top dollars.

The ideal scenario is to re-sign him to an agreeable contract (sub-$8M AAV), and have him be the long-term partner for Hughes.

Then find a 2RD upgrade (I like Matt Roy) and have the pro-scouting find cheap-ish, effective options for the bottom-pair.

 

[LemonSauceD]

Yep. It will be difficult to break even on a trade given everyone you're trading Hronek knows he's looking for top dollars.

The ideal scenario is to re-sign him to an agreeable contract (sub-$8M AAV), and have him be the long-term partner for Hughes.

Then find a 2RD upgrade (I like Matt Roy) and have the pro-scouting find cheap-ish, effective options for the bottom-pair.

This is interesting so I looked out other notable RFA holdouts that ended being traded:

Dougie Hamilton traded to Calgary for 1st, and 2 2nds

O Reilly traded to Buffalo for Grigorenko (Podkolzin type value), Zadorov (1st round pick), JT Compher (2nd round pick) and an additional 2nd round pick.

Trouba traded for Pionk (top 4 D) and a 1st round pick

Fiala traded for Brock Faber and a 1st round pick

Dubois traded for Vilardi, Iafallo, Kupari, 2nd round pick

Should be no problem getting a 1st and 2nd round pick or an equivalent for Hronek

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

40-50 point RHD, 26, small, very meh defensively, eats minutes playing alongside Hughes, rejects an 8 year $6.5M contract, wants $7.5M+.

I think you trade him and probably return the equivalent of what it took to get him. A 1st and a 2nd or an equivalent asset.

Sign Tanev/Roy (or both).

This almost reminds me of the Ehrhoff situation years ago..The Canucks were never really the same when he left....If we dont re-sign Hronek, I think we'll end up regretting it.. Players of this ilk rarely get traded.

Signing an aging Tanev isnt the answer.

 

[bossram]

This is interesting so I looked out other notable RFA holdouts that ended being traded:

Dougie Hamilton traded to Calgary for 1st, and 2 2nds

O Reilly traded to Buffalo for Grigorenko (Podkolzin type value), Zadorov (1st round pick), JT Compher (2nd round pick) and an additional 2nd round pick.

Trouba traded for Pionk (top 4 D) and a 1st round pick

Fiala traded for Brock Faber and a 1st round pick

Dubois traded for Vilardi, Iafallo, Kupari, 2nd round pick

Should be no problem getting a 1st and 2nd round pick or an equivalent for Hronek

Was the primary reasons for trading those players because of the player's contract demands?

In those cases, the impetuses for the trades were either the team didn't really want them anymore (Hamilton) or the player didn't want to stay in WPG (Trouba, Dubois) or there was simply no cap space available for any contract at all (Fiala).

ROR is really the only one there that I recall there was a contract negotiation issue.

 

[sandwichbird2023]

the hronek situation is tricky

i don't think they do well in a trade simply because anyone acquiring him is gonna know they're facing a tough negotiation and he's got that arb to free agency out if he wants it. maybe if they can find a team that has a really good winger to deal?

i also think signing him long term is questionable because hughes and hronek are both undersized and along with the canucks top prospect being another dman lacking size in willander that puts them in a potential bind down the road. other than pettersson no dmen in their system really project as physical. mynio, kudryavtsev and even johansson and mcward are all 6'1 or less

given that you probably want to sign him to a mid range deal but i doubt he wants that unless it's for big dollars and i dunno the canucks have the cap situation to really entertain that

it's going to be interesting to see what direction they go

I wouldn't say Willander is lacking in size, he is a average sized defenseman. Soucy is also fairly big. If we extend Zadorov that will bring the group average way up.

But you can always bring in size to the backend via UFA. Cole, Myers, Juulsen are all UFA signings. I think this group can handle having both Hughes and Hronek and not be severely lacking in size as long as they round out the rest of the group with the appropriate players.

 

[LemonSauceD]

Was the primary reasons for trading those players because of the player's contract demands?

In those cases, the impetuses for the trades were either the team didn't really want them anymore (Hamilton) or the player didn't want to stay in WPG (Trouba, Dubois) or there was simply no cap space available for any contract at all (Fiala).

ROR is really the only one there that I recall there was a contract negotiation issue.

the reasons for trade are practically irrelevant when it pertains to value. Quality RFA’s have a base value which has been established for the past decade.

Canucks reasons for trading Hronek have no real relevance on the potential value coming back. That said, time is what ultimately matters. Past July when he’s near arbitration would signal value suddenly decreasing. The trades above happened at or before July 1st.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

Cannot see mgmt giving Hronek more than Hughes.

If they cannot come to a deal, I think he eventually gets traded but real questions is when?

There would need to be a plan in place connected to next steps.

If per say, the Nucks bring Tanev back to play with Hughes, they could move Hronek this summer to capitalize on his value.

Ideally you would trade him that brings in assets to facilitate another trade for a dman.

Andersson in Calgary would be of high interest but would cost alot.

Maybe Ottawa is interested in moving Zub.

Or they go a buy low route; say someone like Provorov.

I get why Hronke and his agent wants big $$.

But with the numbers suggested, it may be from another team.

 

[Vector]

So Lindholm probably isn't good to go for the rest of the homestand. At least that's how I read this. Would also allow them to activate Joshua without sending anyone down.

 

[bossram]

the reasons for trade are practically irrelevant when it pertains to value. Quality RFA’s have a base value which has been established for the past decade.

Canucks reasons for trading Hronek have no real relevance on the potential value coming back. That said, time is what ultimately matters. Past July when he’s near arbitration would signal value suddenly decreasing. The trades above happened at or before July 1st.

Do they? If you're comparing disparate players and player types, I find it hard to say all of them have basically the same value. The value is determined on a case-by-case basis. You've kind of underscored this point and undermined your own by saying that Hronek's trade value would drop the closer he gets to arbitration (I agree there). So it would appear that trade value is dependent on the circumstances at hand, at the time, and not some pre-determined value ascribed to all quality RFAs.

If Hronek is only willing to sign at a very high AAV, that will limit the suitors and return price. That's not to say I think the Canucks will get nothing in return.

 

[LemonSauceD]

Do they? If you're comparing disparate players and player types, I find it hard to say all of them have basically the same value. The value is determined on a case-by-case basis. You've kind of underscored this point and undermined your own by saying that Hronek's trade value would drop the closer he gets to arbitration (I agree there). So it would appear that trade value is dependent on the circumstances at hand, at the time, and not some pre-determined value ascribed to all quality RFAs.

If Hronek is only willing to sign at a very high AAV, that will limit the suitors and return price. That's not to say I think the Canucks will get nothing in return.

Base value is a 1st and 2nd round pick or an equivalent. What is added on top of that is obviously case by case.

It’s no secret any RFA loses value the longer it takes to trade them as they near arbitration. It obviously makes sense you trade your RFA holdout by July 1st.

Personally I have no interest in re signing Hronek $7M+

Hell $6.5M that he rejected was a bit much. Smallish 40-50 point offensive defenseman.

 

[VanJack]

The one thing you know about Allvin and Rutherford, is that they won't let this Hronek situation linger for long. A long-winded contract discussion, and even a potential holdout with training camp looming in September, simply won't happen.

The sides are reportedly $1m apart. But if Hronek and his agent are interested in teams in selected U.S. markets, the gap could be even wider with more favorable tax situations.

But the Hronek headache is just one in a long list of cap-related issues that Allvin is going to have to deal with, this off-season. It'll be a 'summer of change' no matter what the Canucks do in the playoffs.

 

[sandwichbird2023]

Cannot see mgmt giving Hronek more than Hughes.

If they cannot come to a deal, I think he eventually gets traded but real questions is when?

There would need to be a plan in place connected to next steps.

If per say, the Nucks bring Tanev back to play with Hughes, they could move Hronek this summer to capitalize on his value.

Ideally you would trade him that brings in assets to facilitate another trade for a dman.

Andersson in Calgary would be of high interest but would cost alot.

Maybe Ottawa is interested in moving Zub.

Or they go a buy low route; say someone like Provorov.

I get why Hronke and his agent wants big $$.

But with the numbers suggested, it may be from another team.

Yea to add more difficulty to the Hronek situation is that the team is in a competitive window and cannot just take an "all future" package, or if they did, have to immediately turn that package into another top 4 RD.

No competitive team will give up a top 4 RD already under contract for Hronek. No rebuilding team will trade for Hronek. Some teams don't have the cap space even if they have the need. Some teams don't have the asset even if they have the need and the space. Then you have to find another top 4 RD that you can acquire using the package you received in the first trade and have to deal with that side of the ledger.

This could be the most complicated situation yet for Allvin/JR, even more so than the Petterson negotiation. I don't envy them.

 

[sting101]

Personally I have no interest in re signing Hronek $7M+

Hell $6.5M that he rejected was a bit much. Smallish 40-50 point offensive defenseman.

im ok with 7-7.25 if its 5yrs or less. i really dont want anything beyond 31/32. Hronek profiles as a type that will struggle in his 30s. His shot kinda sucks. He's not big and makes a fair amount of bad in zone reads. Most of his best attributes will be effected by any loss in pace

higher AAV for less term is the way to go.

the talk of 8 or more than Dunn and Hughes in AAV is nonsense. Agree that 6.5 is probably what he's really worth without Hughes propping him up.

 

[calnuck]

im ok with 7-7.25 if its 5yrs or less. i really dont want anything beyond 31/32. Hronek profiles as a type that will struggle in his 30s. His shot kinda sucks. He's not big and makes a fair amount of bad in zone reads. Most of his best attributes will be effected by any loss in pace

higher AAV for less term is the way to go.

the talk of 8 or more than Dunn and Hughes in AAV is nonsense. Agree that 6.5 is probably what he's really worth without Hughes propping him up.

His shot is great he just can’t hit the f***ing net. I’m also fine with that contract if Gonchar and Foote focus on his shot over the summer and in training camp. It can be absolutely Salo-esque when it actually gets to where it’s supposed to go

 

[sting101]

Guy i wanted then was Durzi. For just a 2nd 2024 we could have drafted Calum Ritchie or Quinten Musty and then Andrew Gibson or Carson Rehkopf last year which would have really reset our pool

His shot is great he just can’t hit the f***ing net. I’m also fine with that contract if Gonchar and Foote focus on his shot over the summer and in training camp. It can be absolutely Salo-esque when it actually gets to where it’s supposed to go

Podz has a bomb too doesn't mean shit if you cant pick corners at a reasonable rate

 

[TruGr1t]

im ok with 7-7.25 if its 5yrs or less. i really dont want anything beyond 31/32. Hronek profiles as a type that will struggle in his 30s. His shot kinda sucks. He's not big and makes a fair amount of bad in zone reads. Most of his best attributes will be effected by any loss in pace

higher AAV for less term is the way to go.

the talk of 8 or more than Dunn and Hughes in AAV is nonsense. Agree that 6.5 is probably what he's really worth without Hughes propping him up.

I don’t really see how they get him for less than 6-7 years at $7M+ at the very least, probably $7.5M. He brushed off the $6.5M offer.

 

[VanJack]

Just listened to another insightful interview with Zadorov on Sportsnet. This guy clearly loves being in Vancouver; and is such a leader on the ice and in the dressing-room.

I know the contract numbers don't look good.....but I'm coming around to the idea that he's the kind of guy you consider 'breaking the bank' to bring back. He's just such a supreme fit for this team right now.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

This almost reminds me of the Ehrhoff situation years ago..The Canucks were never really the same when he left....If we dont re-sign Hronek, I think we'll end up regretting it.. Players of this ilk rarely get traded.

Signing an aging Tanev isnt the answer.

I agree. Unfortunately, we really have no options to replace him and I imagine Walsh is leveraging that heavily. Tanev and Roy aren't remotely comparable players. Now if Hronek refuses to budge off 8M+, then it becomes a problem but 7.5M or less is manageable.

 

[RobertKron]

This almost reminds me of the Ehrhoff situation years ago..The Canucks were never really the same when he left....If we dont re-sign Hronek, I think we'll end up regretting it.. Players of this ilk rarely get traded.

Signing an aging Tanev isnt the answer.

FWIW, IIRC the Sabres will still be paying Ehrhoff for another five years or something like that.

 

[F A N]

This almost reminds me of the Ehrhoff situation years ago..The Canucks were never really the same when he left....If we dont re-sign Hronek, I think we'll end up regretting it.. Players of this ilk rarely get traded.

Signing an aging Tanev isnt the answer.

But the Canucks would have regretted re-signing Ehrhoff. Thats the problem. Great player, much needed player, but not worth what was needed to re-sign him. What would you do?

 

[mriswith]

Roy plays more minutes this season than Hronek the season before he came here, similar ES scoring before Hronek came here, way better analytics on both ends of the ice compared to pre-Canucks Hronek.

I'm not saying Roy is better or will be better and I want to keep Hronek because we need more top 4 dmen, not less. I'd be very upset if we let Hronek go and Hughes has to go back to playing with waiver bait garbage again like he did for years before Hronek arrived.

But the Hughes Halo Effect is real and there is a massive asterisk around "can't replace Hronek with <x player>" that needs to say "based on how he looks playing with Hughes".

 

[David71]

if the plan is to trade hronek if his demands arent asked then vancouver is back to step one in finding another rhd for hughes again. one step forward becomes 10 steps backwards

 

[TruGr1t]

if the plan is to trade hronek if his demands arent asked then vancouver is back to step one in finding another rhd for hughes again. one step forward becomes 10 steps backwards

Depends what they do with the $8M in cap space.

 

[I Hart Conor Garland]

Depends what they do with the $8M in cap space.

I'd like them to explore this.