Canucks Managerial Thread II

[Cupless44]

That's a fair criticism, although Gillis was managing a team that won two President's trophies and picked very late almost every year. He's ultimately culpable for the Hodgson pick (although let's be honest, who can say they saw THAT coming at the time of his draft) and Horvat was a trade, but it's difficult to make hay out of high 20's picks.

If you noticed the examples i used were Perry and Saad, drafted by contending teams picking late.

Doesn't happen every day, but never in 7 years??

 

[Bleach Clean]

I'm an editor, but thank you. I wish you'd been grading my high school English papers.

A fair point, although I think we can all agree that the primary purpose of professional sports is an entertainment medium. That, and making money for the owner.

You're welcome.

It was the same for me. Took to writing more after high school.

We can agree that it is entertainment. People do enjoy watching it, no question. However, two people can have differing reactions to the same event, as you know... In that sense, I hope we can focus more on the content of those reactions. Some 'negative opinions' are nuanced and hard won. They deserve attention. It would be a shame to disregard/dismiss them simply because they are negative in tone.

 

[Cupless44]

You can't say their number 1 priority is drafting when they have traded away almost a full year's worth of picks. If anything their priority is trading and turnover.

Once again it is about impact players.

Virtanen, McCann, Demko, Boeser look like a good start 2 years in for guys who will actually play for the team.

 

[arttk]

He clearly didn't have a relapse. They also clearly didn't care enough to work with him as he continued to be in stage 1. Benning clearly stated that this was something that Kassian dealt with prior to Benning's arrival.

If you cover your eyes and ears, the problems just go away. Just ask Jim Benning.

All of Benning's behavior points towards that. I mean we were hearing trade rumors like around xmas. It's like once they found out he HAD substance abuse issue, they just wanted to wipe their hands clean.

Benning's prior treatment of Seguin points to that he just doesn't want to deal with anything that he sees as "character issues". Which is ironic considering how many "mentors" he is trying to bring in to coach his young guys. It's like you want good guys to coach young guys but at the same time don't believe people with prior issues can be coached.

 

[Cupless44]

I agree with you that we need a proper rebuild. However, that seems to contradict the management's statements re: rebuild. They have said numerous times a rebuild is not an option and making the playoffs is the goal.



Are you asking me to prove a negative?

How about you prove that Benning developed Hutton into what he is today?

If they are so focused on drafting, why are they throwing in picks in every single trade like it's candy?

I think you can consider this the mission statement for public consumption. Proof is in action. There is more youth on the roster now than in decades.

 

[castanza]

I agree with you that we need a proper rebuild. However, that seems to contradict the management's statements re: rebuild. They have said numerous times a rebuild is not an option and making the playoffs is the goal.



Are you asking me to prove a negative?

How about you prove that Benning developed Hutton into what he is today?

When Benning was hired Linden stated that it was Benning's solid background in player development that convinced him he was the right person for the job. This would prove that he has a plan in place for player development to even get a job as an NHL GM.

As for Hutton, he is on the team playing, he's developed into an NHL player, that's proof enough.

Prove that they don't do any player development.

I'm willing to bet you can't.

 

[castanza]

All of Benning's behavior points towards that. I mean we were hearing trade rumors like around xmas. It's like once they found out he HAD substance abuse issue, they just wanted to wipe their hands clean.

Benning's prior treatment of Seguin points to that he just doesn't want to deal with anything that he sees as "character issues". Which is ironic considering how many "mentors" he is trying to bring in to coach his young guys. It's like you want good guys to coach young guys but at the same time don't believe people with prior issues can be coached.

Pierre Lebrun on #TSN690 says it's his understanding Zack Kassian has been in Stage 1 of the NHL's Substance Abuse Program "numerous times."

— HabsLinks (@HabsLinks) October 6, 2015

This points to the fact that the Canucks tried to work with Kassian and did not try to wipe their hands clean "once they found out he HAD substance abuse issues"

 

[arttk]

Pierre Lebrun on #TSN690 says it's his understanding Zack Kassian has been in Stage 1 of the NHL's Substance Abuse Program "numerous times."

— HabsLinks (@HabsLinks) October 6, 2015

This points to the fact that the Canucks tried to work with Kassian and did not try to wipe their hands clean "once they found out he HAD substance abuse issues"

And Benning said himself that this was prior to him coming in and it has been reported that stage 1 is strict, breaking any of the requirements would make stage 2 automatic.

 

[castanza]

More small notes from Friedman's 30 thoughts column

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/3...ade-captaincy

28. Canadiens coach Michel Therrien confirmed Tuesday what was widely suspected, that Zack Kassian had already been through Stage One of the NHL/NHLPA Substance Abuse Program.

It had been rumoured that was the case in Vancouver, but the Canucks never confirmed it at the time, nor should they have. Stan Smyl spent a ton of time working with Kassian, but it’s very clear the Canadiens are already out of patience.

 

[Ryp37]

There's 3 young guys on the roster because they didnt have cap space for anyone else

And because they outplayed Jims crappy acquisitions

And now their top picks chilling in the press box for some reason

 

[Toxic0n]

When Benning was hired Linden stated that it was Benning's solid background in player development that convinced him he was the right person for the job. This would prove that he has a plan in place for player development to even get a job as an NHL GM.

As for Hutton, he is on the team playing, he's developed into an NHL player, that's proof enough.

Prove that they don't do any player development.

I'm willing to bet you can't.

Stop putting words in my mouth. I did not say Benning does not do any player development. I said it's a stretch to credit him with Hutton's development when he's only been here for just over a year. Same with Horvat.

 

[castanza]

There's 3 young guys on the roster because they didnt have cap space for anyone else

And because they outplayed Jims crappy acquisitions

And now their top picks chilling in the press box for some reason

Is this a joke or a serious comment?

3 young players are on the team because they had an excellent preseason and showed they can play in the NHL. They are not on the team because of any cap issues as Benning has always stated that he will make room and find a way to integrate youth if they can play.

3 young guys outplayed a few players on the team, that's no different than any other team where young players are integrated...they are taking jobs of players who were acquired by the GM of that team.

Is that a difficult concept to understand? Why don't you go to the Lighting board [MOD] about how integrating Drouin and Namestnikov into their lineup is bad because they outplayed other assets.

The canucks management has decided that Virtanen needs to be brought along slowly, personally I have no problem with it. Virtanen will be a good player for us, in time.

 

[castanza]

Stop putting words in my mouth. I did not say Benning does not do any player development. I said it's a stretch to credit him with Hutton's development when he's only been here for just over a year. Same with Horvat.

Then give rationale for your comment as to why its a stretch.

Simply stating that he doesn't deserve credit with no rationale is weak.

 

[arttk]

Is this a joke or a serious comment?

3 young players are on the team because they had an excellent preseason and showed they can play in the NHL. They are not on the team because of any cap issues as Benning has always stated that he will make room and find a way to integrate youth if they can play.

3 young guys outplayed a few players on the team, that's no different than any other team where young players are integrated...they are taking jobs of players who were acquired by the GM of that team.

Is that a difficult concept to understand? Why don't you go to the Lighting board and ****** about how integrating Drouin and Namestnikov into their lineup is bad because they outplayed other assets.

The canucks management has decided that Virtanen needs to be brought along slowly, personally I have no problem with it. Virtanen will be a good player for us, in time.

Well he did make room by waiving Corrado when there is another dman in the team that deserves it way way way more.

 

[Cupless44]

All of Benning's behavior points towards that. I mean we were hearing trade rumors like around xmas. It's like once they found out he HAD substance abuse issue, they just wanted to wipe their hands clean.

Benning's prior treatment of Seguin points to that he just doesn't want to deal with anything that he sees as "character issues". Which is ironic considering how many "mentors" he is trying to bring in to coach his young guys. It's like you want good guys to coach young guys but at the same time don't believe people with prior issues can be coached.

Wow you know Benning will never be able to win on this board.

All summer long Benning was called an idiot for trading this skilled young forward, then he was called an idiot for not getting enough in the trade. Now when people finally figure out why he was moved and why no team would pay anything for Kassian it is time to switch gears to blame Benning for not treating Kassian properly.

This really isn't a topic for this board. So much misguided speculation about Kassian's problems and how the Canucks handled it.

 

[Bleach Clean]

^ Virtanen didn't have an "excellent pre-season".

Baertschi didn't beat out his competition either.

Sbisa over any Dman is not a decision based on merit.

 

[castanza]

Well he did make room by waiving Corrado when there is another dman in the team that deserves it way way way more.

I could be wrong but it wouldn't surprise me to see Corrado on waivers again in the future.

 

[Toxic0n]

Then give rationale for your comment as to why its a stretch.

Simply stating that he doesn't deserve credit with no rationale is weak.

Because Gillis drafted them and developed them and Benning has been here for just over a year? The majority of their development was not under Benning. It's hilarious that some are touting Hutton and Horvat's play as some sort of accomplishment for the current management. Horvat basically willed his way into the line up

 

[Verviticus]

Now when people finally figure out why he was moved and why no team would pay anything for Kassian it is time to switch gears to blame Benning for not treating Kassian properly.

this is correct. he did a bad thing, and then we learned some stuff, and learned that it was a bad thing for different reasons

 

[alternate]

My point is that a random user on the Internet is unlikely to have deep pockets or have a wide audience. Not that the schmoe's opinion isn't valid.

Your posts in the past couple pages reminded me of pre-Benning Jyrki21. Sometimes I miss that poster.

You can't say their number 1 priority is drafting when they have traded away almost a full year's worth of picks. If anything their priority is trading and turnover.

Despite that he's made 14 picks in 14 rounds as GM, a trend we haven't seen here through the past 5 GMs or so. And many of the picks he traded for were for prospects rather than vets or rentals. Not all trades involving picks are created equal.

Re: Benning developing players, it's been noted many times that Willie didnt really want a 19 year old on the roster. And if we are honest, Bo didn't really deserve to stay the way he was playing early last season. Benning deserves credit for insisting Bo make the team and then sticking with him through some early growing pains.

Re: just waive Kassian. Lol could you imagine! You guys would be saying "at least get a vet on an expiring contract that you can deal at the deadline. Throw in a later pick if you have to! Turible asset management! !"

 

[Cupless44]

All of Benning's behavior points towards that. I mean we were hearing trade rumors like around xmas. It's like once they found out he HAD substance abuse issue, they just wanted to wipe their hands clean.

Benning's prior treatment of Seguin points to that he just doesn't want to deal with anything that he sees as "character issues". Which is ironic considering how many "mentors" he is trying to bring in to coach his young guys. It's like you want good guys to coach young guys but at the same time don't believe people with prior issues can be coached.

Past and present management have known about the issues for 3 years. Ridiculous to suggest they just found out at Christmas and tried to get him out of here.The Canucks worked quietly behind the scenes with this player. The story broke in Montreal after the accident. Bergevin was the GM speaking out about the players character btw.

This organization is run by Trevor Linden. You might as well tar his character as well even though the classy former NHLPA head stated that they worked with Kassian every way they could. At some point you have do what is best for the organization.

 

[rune74]

^ Virtanen didn't have an "excellent pre-season".

Baertschi didn't beat out his competition either.

Sbisa over any Dman is not a decision based on merit.

Sbisa outplayed the dmen not on the team. Like him or hate him he did....and that says a lot about the other dmen.

Virtanen had a good preseason, good enough to get more looks.

Bartschi did just fine. Who was he trying to beat out?

 

[Verviticus]

Sbisa outplayed the dmen not on the team. Like him or hate him he did....and that says a lot about the other dmen

I know you think he's a viable NHL player or whatever but no he didn't. he was worse than corrado, biega and every regular. maybe he was better than fedun

 

[Cupless44]

this is correct. he did a bad thing, and then we learned some stuff, and learned that it was a bad thing for different reasons

You have absolutely no clue what the Canuck organization has tried to do with Kassian or how bad his issues are.

Also extremely naive to think it is all Benning who deals with issues like this. Linden and Smyl were extremely involved but these two former captains who have done tons for the community and players have no character right?

The length at which Benning hate is being taken on this topic has really reached ridiculously disengenuous levels.

 

[arttk]

Wow you know Benning will never be able to win on this board.

All summer long Benning was called an idiot for trading this skilled young forward, then he was called an idiot for not getting enough in the trade. Now when people finally figure out why he was moved and why no team would pay anything for Kassian it is time to switch gears to blame Benning for not treating Kassian properly.

This really isn't a topic for this board. So much misguided speculation about Kassian's problems and how the Canucks handled it.

Not really, like many has said, his good moves get acknowledged.
It's just that he makes way more bad moves than good moves.

I don't see how he is not an idiot for trading Kassian. If he was truly that bad, then waiving him and loaning him to some team not named Utcia is an option.

No extra cap, no assets expended. It is stupid to literally pay someone else to take him off our hands when the waiver option is available.

I don't think anyone is saying the management group is not treating him properly, more like there is no attempt to deal with him. "Oh you had substance abuse issues, holdon let me get on the phone and try to trade you". That is pretty much management's attitude towards Kassian and we have plenty of evidence that points to that.

This is what we know so far.
1) Kassian had gone through stage 1 before Benning arrived.
2) Kassian was no longer in stage 1 when Benning arrived.
3) If Kassian had any relapse they could've sent him to stage 2, period.
4) We heard Kassian was on the trade block as early as like 3 months into the season.
5) Kassian could not have had any relapse during the season because that means automatic stage 2.
6) Kassian's role was limited despite producing. Production vs ice time was completely disproportional.