MDCSL
Registered User
Horvat is exactly the kind of player who a real contender would/should overpay for at 50% retention, ala Coleman or Goodrow. Players like that massively discounted are what truly pushes a contender over the top.
+/- is a trash stat first of all.
Second points are not a primary measure of a centre's impact. They never have been. Ask yourself why a coach like Jon Cooper would rather have Anthony Cirelli as his 2C than Steven Stamkos. The Jets traded for Pierre Luc Dubois to be their 1C when they already had Mark Scheifele.
Points are byproduct of doing things some good on the ice, but centres are asked to do some other good things which inherently limit their points. You don't need points to identify good players, you need good players in good situations to end up with points. Case-in-point I could have told you a year ago that not only is Sam Bennett a 1C, he's Calgary's best and no one on HF would have listened. Now he's in Florida centering Huberdeau without Barkov in the lineup, the points are there, the plusminus is there but he's not playing any differently.
As for Horvat specifically, he'd be a perfect 2C on a team that has a matchup 3C (Think Adam Lowry or Charlie Coyle).
In fact twenty bucks that Boston gives up major assets to acquire Bo Horvat
Marchand-Bergeron-Pastrnak
Hall-Horvat-Doesn't Matter
Doesn't Matter-Coyle-Doesn't matter
Perfect fit.
Benning is a symptom of a much bigger problem, you're correct.I'm not even sure Benning is Vancouver's biggest problem. Seems like they have very meddlesome ownership.
Thats such a vague question,
Which cup contending team? whats their centres look like?
Horvat is 60+ point, faceoff machine and good for 25 goals.
If he is a 3C on your team then thats awesome C depth you have.
Very high I would assume. Think like Ladeskog or something. No way Canucks trading Horvat for freeWhat would be asking price for Horvat?
Similar type of previous trade ?
That is complete garbage proposal. Canucks better be getting a good roster player plus a good prospect and pick. Unless by Top prospect you mean someone like Lucas Raymond or Seider type where they are basically playing first year in NHL or will play next year at the latest. There is no way Horvat will get only a 1st and a 3rd plus a no name prospect. Horvat is as valuable or more so than Pettersson or Boeser so Value needs to be really high.Canucks needs are young RD.
picks and prospects wise I'd think its :
1st round
3rd round
Top prospect
In your dreams. Canucks would ask for a young roster player off the Avs team. Think Toews or Byram not some picks and Barron. The Avs can very well afford to give Canucks Byram because they have depth on DBarron + 1st + 3rd round pick for Horvat (50% retained)
Barron is one of the Avs best prospects- a big 2-way RHD who we drafted with our 1st last year
I really dont see why Canucks want to rebuild. Get rid of that dumb coach and rookie assistant coaches and bring in a real coach and see what they have. Also that being under a new GM. First evaluate then maybe retool a bit but definitely not rebuild. Completely idiotic to rebuild a team that just recently rebuilt and have many young promising players.Fans in Vancouver who are calling for a complete rebuild from the next gm need to also realize that most of the guys whose contracts will expire in the next couple of years won’t re-sign any of their ufa years away if the club rebuilds. Will follow Eichel, Reinhart, Jones etc. out the door.
I would Hold just like Flames did last year and maybe retool a bit while changing coaching staff. Biggest mistake Canucks can do now is doing bad trades when value is at lowest.Horvat is having an off year. my guess is teams are offering Canucks pennies on the buck for him
Okay well that’s not happening, in your dreams the Avs give Vancouver Byram.In your dreams. Canucks would ask for a young roster player off the Avs team. Think Toews or Byram not some picks and Barron. The Avs can very well afford to give Canucks Byram because they have depth on D
Well, what if Miller, Horvat and Boeser turn it around under a different coach? I mean look at Gaudreau and Tkatchuk under sutter.Exactly. It hurts, but I know if this franchise is going to have a future, they need to get as much value as possible from Miller, Horvat, and Boeser before it's too late.
Very high I would assume. Think like Ladeskog or something. No way Canucks trading Horvat for free
Well Canucks wont make stupid trades, sorry to break it to you. And Benning probably doesnt have the authority now. You want the canucks to trade their best player because of this year for some NHL fodder? Unless Horvat wants out, Canucks wont trade him and ai rather they spend this season in the basement and comeout next year with a new GM and coach and a top pick versus doing a stupid trade that will put them back into another rebuild. Horvat is the number one faceoff center on Canucks, who will they have taking faceoffs if Horvat leaves? Lammikho? Give me a brrakOkay well that’s not happening, in your dreams the Avs give Vancouver Byram.
Enjoy the basement
Okay well that’s not happening, in your dreams the Avs give Vancouver Byram.
Enjoy the basement
Those are pretty bad proposals except the Byram one and Canucks wont add Rathbone to Horvat for Byram. It will be Horvat for Byram straight up.Landeskog might be the ceiling for Horvat's value.
I would say somewhere in between what Christian Dvorak fetched (1st 2nd) to what Landeskog would have gotten if you traded him 3 years ago, is what Horvat's value is.
1st
2nd
highly coveted prospect or young high valued NHL player.
something like
Dobson ,2nd, cap dump
for
Horvat 50% retained, Hamonic
or
Newhook 2nd,3rd
for
Horvat
or
Byram, 2nd
for
Horvat , Rathbone
or
B Schneider, 2nd, 3rd
for
Horvat
there's going to be a big difference in value between the Sens 1st compared to the Avs 1st.I would take Barron over Thomson or Bernard-Docker. But to each their own.
Since you’re so critical let’s hear your offer.
Are the Sens going to offer Thomson + their 2022 1st + 3rd to beat the Avs?
+/- is a trash stat first of all.
Second points are not a primary measure of a centre's impact. They never have been. Ask yourself why a coach like Jon Cooper would rather have Anthony Cirelli as his 2C than Steven Stamkos. The Jets traded for Pierre Luc Dubois to be their 1C when they already had Mark Scheifele.
Points are byproduct of doing things some good on the ice, but centres are asked to do some other good things which inherently limit their points. You don't need points to identify good players, you need good players in good situations to end up with points. Case-in-point I could have told you a year ago that not only is Sam Bennett a 1C, he's Calgary's best and no one on HF would have listened. Now he's in Florida centering Huberdeau without Barkov in the lineup, the points are there, the plusminus is there but he's not playing any differently.
As for Horvat specifically, he'd be a perfect 2C on a team that has a matchup 3C (Think Adam Lowry or Charlie Coyle).
In fact twenty bucks that Boston gives up major assets to acquire Bo Horvat
Marchand-Bergeron-Pastrnak
Hall-Horvat-Doesn't Matter
Doesn't Matter-Coyle-Doesn't matter
Perfect fit.
Those are pretty bad proposals except the Byram one and Canucks wont add Rathbone to Horvat for Byram. It will be Horvat for Byram straight up.
Those are pretty bad proposals except the Byram one and Canucks wont add Rathbone to Horvat for Byram. It will be Horvat for Byram straight up.
Many teams would easily beat the offer of Barron and a late 1st.That would be a steal for the Avs.1) Nolan Foote is not a dman. He’s a forward.
2) Horvat is better than Coleman but he’s also paid a lot more. Coleman’s contract was a large reason he was so enticing to Tampa. Also it was widely agreed that Tampa overpaid in that deal- why is it being considered the standard?
3) 2 1st round picks is a solid offer. It could be beat sure but if it is that’s an L for the team who offered it. Which team is going to offer more than that considering Horvat has struggled this season and his lack of term?
Well Canucks wont make stupid trades, sorry to break it to you. And Benning probably doesnt have the authority now. You want the canucks to trade their best player because of this year for some NHL fodder? Unless Horvat wants out, Canucks wont trade him and ai rather they spend this season in the basement and comeout next year with a new GM and coach and a top pick versus doing a stupid trade that will put them back into another rebuild. Horvat is the number one faceoff center on Canucks, who will they have taking faceoffs if Horvat leaves? Lammikho? Give me a brrak
Yeah, trading Horvat for pennies on the dollar would really help improve our team.Okay well that’s not happening, in your dreams the Avs give Vancouver Byram.
Enjoy the basement
Great, then why are you posting in this thread?If Boston's giving up major assets it will be for Hertl, not Horvat.
Avs fans being delusional about Horvats value just because of one off year. I wonder if they accept bread crumbs for Girard like maybe Jet woo and a 2nd.Youre invited to the basement party in April when the Avs are forced to have newhook, jost, helm as their 2c when Kadri gets suspended in the playoffs again.
It will be great party! byob!