Post-Game Talk: Canucks def. Blackhawks - 5-2 (Kuzmenko x2, Joshua, Dries, Horvat)

[Annihilator Gator]

Given what the Canucks needed, a two-way winger with speed that can play PK... signing Mikheyev on that UFA deal was definitely a triple, if not a home-run. He's been outstanding and has tremendous chemistry with Petey and Kuz. The term is also perfect considering he's in his prime right now.

He's definitely been a steal... he's outperforming Garland and Boeser significantly on smaller deals.

Getting Mikheyev was also instrumental in getting Kuzmenko, it's sort of a package deal.

A++ for Mikheyev + Kuzmenko for what, 6M??.



I wasn't referring to you specifically.

I'm just reminiscing about Gillis.

Of for sure I don't dislike either deal.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Dude had the hardest hard-on for Green last year... it was so weird.

Drance pointing out the obvious is not really something that makes me say wow, he's so good! Dude regurgitates his message, and more annoyingly, yells and shoves his opinion down peoples throat.

Canucks have been bad for years... saying that we suck is just him doing his basic homework of watching the games. The Boudreaux bump was always a mirage based on world-class goaltending.

And now Bruce Boudreau is also a shitty coach?

Maybe the team is just really f***in bad and makes all coaches look awful?

So is Tocchet an awful coach because he was behind the bench of a completely missmanaged Arizona team?

 

[mossey3535]

King, to me, is pretty easy to see why he's still here. Long time Canuck guy that has a good relationship with the Sedins. While the power play has been frustrating, at times, it's not really the biggest problem on the team and he's had past success with it. Then, there's Friedman reporting that they've talked to other assistants and development coaches but they are unable to join the team until the offseason. So, you aren't going to fire the guy who's at least shown competency only to replace him with a temporary outside the organization person only to then let that person go and bring in your own during the offseason.

Yeah but he needs to go in the off-season. You could show a PP from their slumps and a PP from a hot streak and it looks literally the same. Our PP could be so much better. For now, make sense for continuity but not a long term fit IMO. He had his kick at the can.

 

[JohnHodgson]

They can't trade Garland and Boeser. According to basically all the sources they have been trying for a long time to move both and can't unless they move out picks or prospects.

Average goaltending will not get the Canucks into the playoffs. We know cause they also did not make the playoffs the last few years with various great goaltending performances (Markstrom for example).

I don't know what to say if you think this team sans Horvat but plus Kuzmenko is going to hit 100 points next year.

How is it overblown? I'm telling you right now the Canucks will not make the playoffs for the next 3 years. It's not even remotely possible.

Is that "doom and gloom"?

I don't think those reports are necessarily true in the context you're portraying. I think the Canucks have been trying to dump Boeser/Garland without taking salary back, but that's not viable in the flat cap era.

There are certainly deals available for other struggling players with similar or lower cap hits.

We need to be targeting a defensemen that needs a change of scenery - think Dumba/Provorov etc. Team may entertain a 1 for 1 swap. If Canucks land a solid D in a Horvat deal, and do a change of scenery trade (Dumba for Boeser), we could be adding two quality dman to the lineup for next year.

This is almost certainly possible. Adding two quality dman, improving defensive structure, and getting above average goaltending from a healthy Demko should almost certainly transform this to a playoff competitive team.

And now Bruce Boudreau is also a shitty coach?

Maybe the team is just really f***in bad and makes all coaches look awful?

So is Tocchet an awful coach because he was behind the bench of a completely missmanaged Arizona team?

Bruce is not a shitty coach.

He had a shitty year.

Tocchet had NO talent in Arizona and put up a respectable record. Let's see what he does with a team with 3x the talent.

 

[Annihilator Gator]

If we could throw in a Rathbone with boeser and get a decent d sure. May have to retain 1 mil on boeser but sure. The odds are low though. The big 3 for deadline deals is horvat, schenn and , kuz. I love them all but take a first if you can get them and resign say schenn or kuz later. Not ideal obviously.

 

[valkynax]

 

[JohnHodgson]

If we could throw in a Rathbone with boeser and get a decent d sure. May have to retain 1 mil on boeser but sure. The odds are low though. The big 3 for deadline deals is horvat, schenn and , kuz. I love them all but take a first if you can get them and resign say schenn or kuz later. Not ideal obviously.

Yeah... the Doom and Gloom shit is so overblown.

Canucks had a decent off-season all things considered. They inquired on D like Marino but didn't have the assets. They've only been here a calendar year! They're going to need a more time to unravel the Jim Benning special.

I think Kuz is staying. I think he loves playing with Petey and vice-versa. This insane chemistry is so hard to find between players. They can be a staple on the top line in Vancouver for years to come... hard to pass that up. Whether it's a bridge or long-term deal... who knows... looking like a bridge from all reports.

Some scenarios:

Horvat to Bos for Carlo, Lysell, 2nd
Horvat to Car for Morrow, KK, 1st
Schenn to anyone for a 2nd and 4th
Garland/Boeser for D that needs change of scenery (Provorov/Dumba etc.)

If Pearson and Poolman are done, that's another 5.5M in LTIR to use.

Do EVERYTHING you can to make JT Miller a 2C. He has shown the ability to play C last year. Do whatever coaching, whatever actions necessary to make this happen.

Hogs and Pods come back up to the big leagues with more confidence and experience.

There's a pathway to success but a lot needs to go right.

 

[Annihilator Gator]

The Boston deal to me sounds boring. I know Carlo could be great for Hughes. If we could get a morrow, or nishiken atleast plus a 1st and a b. Or perhaps a better deal from an la or Detroit. sure.im fine with kuz staying if it's a fair mid deal. Anyhow I'm no trade wiz. Just get the most we can that isn't some early 20s scrub that hasn't done anything and I'll be happy. This team is a reclamation project. We don't need reclamation players too

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

I don't think those reports are necessarily true in the context you're portraying. I think the Canucks have been trying to dump Boeser/Garland without taking salary back, but that's not viable in the flat cap era.

There are certainly deals available for other struggling players with similar or lower cap hits.

We need to be targeting a defensemen that needs a change of scenery - think Dumba/Provorov etc. Team may entertain a 1 for 1 swap. If Canucks land a solid D in a Horvat deal, and do a change of scenery trade (Dumba for Boeser), we could be adding two quality dman to the lineup for next year.

This is almost certainly possible. Adding two quality dman, improving defensive structure, and getting above average goaltending from a healthy Demko should almost certainly transform this to a playoff competitive team.

I disagree. Even assuming everything falls into place and we get playoff bound teams trading us top 4 dmen for our struggling wingers without us having to throw in extra assets (Boeser for Dumba) you now have a $6+ mil UFA dman you need to convince to resign who can simply go to a better team for more cash or a similar ranked team for more cash. Why? Because the Canucks won't have the cap space to outbid basically anyone.

Even if we assume the Canucks trade Horvat and pickup Lafreniere he will need to be re-signed, likely bridge contract for say $3 mil.

Now if you can convince all these guys to come back to a losing team it will look something like this:

Kuzmenko $7 mil - Pettersson $7.35 mil - Mikheyev $4.75 mil
Lafreniere $3 mil - Miller $8 mil - Garland $4.95 mil
Pearson $3.25 mil - Lazar $1 mil - Podkolzin $925k
Hoglander $1 mil - Joshua $825 - Studnicka $800k
Dries $700k, Pederson $750k

Hughes $7.85 mil - Myers $6 mil
OEL $7.26 mil - Dumba $6 mil
Dermott $1.5 mil - Bear $1.8 mil
Burroughs $750k

Demko $5 mil / Martin $770k

This team is roughly $84 mil and over the cap and this is besides Poolman.

This team would not be close to a playoff caliber team.

Even with this Dumba is 29 and may be trending downward which could be yet another OEL situation.

I also don't see anything about how you would add another top 4 d-man. A buyout and sign? Who would you sign? There's zero chance Garland is fetching you a top 4 d-man.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Yeah... the Doom and Gloom shit is so overblown.

Canucks had a decent off-season all things considered. They inquired on D like Marino but didn't have the assets. They've only been here a calendar year! They're going to need a more time to unravel the Jim Benning special.

I think Kuz is staying. I think he loves playing with Petey and vice-versa. This insane chemistry is so hard to find between players. They can be a staple on the top line in Vancouver for years to come... hard to pass that up. Whether it's a bridge or long-term deal... who knows... looking like a bridge from all reports.

Some scenarios:

Horvat to Bos for Carlo, Lysell, 2nd
Horvat to Car for Morrow, KK, 1st
Schenn to anyone for a 2nd and 4th
Garland/Boeser for D that needs change of scenery (Provorov/Dumba etc.)

If Pearson and Poolman are done, that's another 5.5M in LTIR to use.

Do EVERYTHING you can to make JT Miller a 2C. He has shown the ability to play C last year. Do whatever coaching, whatever actions necessary to make this happen.

Hogs and Pods come back up to the big leagues with more confidence and experience.

There's a pathway to success but a lot needs to go right.

Just need to get cheaper.

Replace a top6 center.

Add 3 top4 Dmen.

Ezpz.

 

[JohnHodgson]

I disagree. Even assuming everything falls into place and we get playoff bound teams trading us top 4 dmen for our struggling wingers without us having to throw in extra assets (Boeser for Dumba) you now have a $6+ mil UFA dman you need to convince to resign who can simply go to a better team for more cash or a similar ranked team for more cash. Why? Because the Canucks won't have the cap space to outbid basically anyone.

Even if we assume the Canucks trade Horvat and pickup Lafreniere he will need to be re-signed, likely bridge contract for say $3 mil.

Now if you can convince all these guys to come back to a losing team it will look something like this:

Kuzmenko $7 mil - Pettersson $7.35 mil - Mikheyev $4.75 mil
Lafreniere $3 mil - Miller $8 mil - Garland $4.95 mil
Pearson $3.25 mil - Lazar $1 mil - Podkolzin $925k
Hoglander $1 mil - Joshua $825 - Studnicka $800k
Dries $700k, Pederson $750k

Hughes $7.85 mil - Myers $6 mil
OEL $7.26 mil - Dumba $6 mil
Dermott $1.5 mil - Bear $1.8 mil
Burroughs $750k

Demko $5 mil / Martin $770k

This team is roughly $84 mil and over the cap and this is besides Poolman.

This team would not be close to a playoff caliber team.

Even with this Dumba is 29 and may be trending downward which could be yet another OEL situation.

I also don't see anything about how you would add another top 4 d-man. A buyout and sign? Who would you sign? There's zero chance Garland is fetching you a top 4 d-man.

Why would we even trade Horvat for Laffy? We absolutely need to target a C or a D. No way a winger should be the centrepiece, unless they really believe in Laffy. NYR doesn't need Horvat either, they have Zibby, Trocheck and Chytil down the middle. They don't have cap to re-sign Horvat. That proposed deal doesn't really make sense for both sides. NYR is unlikely to give up Laffy for a rental.

Pearson is likely going to be on LTIR - he still needs more surgeries I believe. That's another 3.25M opened up. Doubt Poolman plays another game in the NHL. That's another 2.5M opened up.

Why would Hoglander be on the 4th line? That doesn't make any sense to me.

Kuzmenko is not going to make 7M based off a good 40 games. That's insane... would be absolutely unprecedented in NHL history. He'll be closer to 6M depending on length of contract. Panarin got a 2 year 6M per bridge while being younger, better and two seasons of production (160 games vs 55 games... assuming Kuz gets extended at deadline).

Minus your Laffy projection, Kuzmenko adjustment, Pearson, and Poolman LTIR, we're looking at something like 9M in cap space.

That's going to easily fit a couple good depth players. Carlo, Lysell + 2nd could be a return for Horvat. Boeser for Provorov could work too.

Use the remaining money on a 3C stopgap.

Mikheyev-Petey-Kuzmenko
Hoglander-Miller-Garland
Lysell-3C-Podkolzin
Dries-Joshua-Studnicka
Pederson, L Karlsson

Hughes-Carlo
Provorov-Myers (or trade Myers)
OEL-Bear
Dermott

Demko
Martin

Team's not a Stanley Cup contender, but can definitely compete for the playoffs. Add two good D, create structure/habits, and hope for a bounce back from Demko.

Additional creative moves to open cap:

1) Myers can easily be traded after his signing bonus is paid. A cap floor team or owner looking to save money would love his type of contract. We can also trade his expiring deal for someone with a lower cap but with more term.

2) OEL can be bought out to save 7M next year

3) Garland can be bought out to save 4M next year.

You're really underrating the fact that there are multiple pathways to build a strong team for next year. If that's their goal, its within means to achieve. The Horvat trade opens up multitude of possibilities, but they need to nail it.

Just need to get cheaper.

Replace a top6 center.

Add 3 top4 Dmen.

Ezpz.

When are we going to add 3 top 4 D?

Whoever suggesting that has no grasp of today's NHL lol.

I'm suggesting we use Miller to be 2C, so that we already have an in-house top 6 replacement.

Not sure you even read my post but OK.

 

[rypper]

 

[m9]

Congrats to Bear.

Figured something else was going on, the suggestion that he missed multiple games for his dog didn't add up.

 

[RobertKron]

Congrats to Bear.

Figured something else was going on, the suggestion that he missed multiple games for his dog didn't add up.

Maybe he also missed the birth of his child to mourn his dog.

 

[Chairman Maouth]

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

Against the Blackhawks.


Jesus Christ Imac.

 

[m9]

Hard to really judge the game because of the competition, but this team has looked sloppy against other bad teams this year so I'll take the results at somewhat face value. I was pretty surprised by the shot clock pretty much every time I looked at it all night. Thought the Canucks were the better team but not to the level of domination the raw shot numbers would show. Not really sure what to attribute that to. Thought Mrazek was great early to keep the Blackhawks in there or this one would have been over early.

I focused on 4 players coming in, I would say mixed results with Studnicka/Delia/Dermott/Burroughs

Studnicka - Sometimes you move an energy guy with limited offensive skill and they turn in a great complementary piece. Sometimes you move a guy up and they look like an out-of-place energy guy.. and that's what we had here. Thought Studnicka wasn't really a fit, though to be fair I'm not sure how much run he had in the past on the LW. Don't think this should be his last opportunity, maybe we've got more of a Matthew Highmore type guy than anything.

Delia - My bar is so low for Canuck goalies this year that when they actively don't ruin the game I give them a pass. So, I'll give him a "C-" passing grade for this one.

Dermott/Burroughs - They were basically played in a sheltered role and I think they were fine. I think we probably see Bear back in there tonight, but I would be open to seeing this pairing get another night together and giving Bear the night off.

Kuzmenko - Said it at the time, that first goal looks easy but is an extremely skilled play. 2nd play was more about smarts.

Joshua - A guy who has been trending out of the lineup the last two months, but this was back to the things he does well which is be physical and go hard to the net.

Maybe it only lasts a few games, but you really saw the things that I hoped for from a Tocchet/Foote coached team. Toughness and were competing all over the ice. Just played a safe/smart game overall.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

When are we going to add 3 top 4 D?

When we intend to compete for the cup?

Whoever suggesting that has no grasp of today's NHL lol.

I mean... I guess... Go look at the teams that have won cups this past decade.

I'm suggesting we use Miller to be 2C, so that we already have an in-house top 6 replacement.

He is not a great Center. So that means we are downgrading at Center. And.... somehow improving?

Not sure you even read my post but OK.

Yeah...

Your post was nonsense. Somehow improving while losing Horvat and spending that money on players we already have in Miller & Kuzmenko.

Does this really make sense to you..?

 

[TruGr1t]

Good Lord, one win against the worst team in the league and the "this team is closer than you think" crowd is already back. Drance is prophetic.

 

[604]

Against the Blackhawks.


Jesus Christ Imac.

Yep, selling the narrative already.

So predictable.

I guess this team will just continue to refuse to bottom out.

 

[Canucker]

Hard to really judge the game because of the competition, but this team has looked sloppy against other bad teams this year so I'll take the results at somewhat face value. I was pretty surprised by the shot clock pretty much every time I looked at it all night. Thought the Canucks were the better team but not to the level of domination the raw shot numbers would show. Not really sure what to attribute that to. Thought Mrazek was great early to keep the Blackhawks in there or this one would have been over early.

I focused on 4 players coming in, I would say mixed results with Studnicka/Delia/Dermott/Burroughs

Studnicka - Sometimes you move an energy guy with limited offensive skill and they turn in a great complementary piece. Sometimes you move a guy up and they look like an out-of-place energy guy.. and that's what we had here. Thought Studnicka wasn't really a fit, though to be fair I'm not sure how much run he had in the past on the LW. Don't think this should be his last opportunity, maybe we've got more of a Matthew Highmore type guy than anything.

Delia - My bar is so low for Canuck goalies this year that when they actively don't ruin the game I give them a pass. So, I'll give him a "C-" passing grade for this one.

Dermott/Burroughs - They were basically played in a sheltered role and I think they were fine. I think we probably see Bear back in there tonight, but I would be open to seeing this pairing get another night together and giving Bear the night off.

Kuzmenko - Said it at the time, that first goal looks easy but is an extremely skilled play. 2nd play was more about smarts.

Joshua - A guy who has been trending out of the lineup the last two months, but this was back to the things he does well which is be physical and go hard to the net.

Maybe it only lasts a few games, but you really saw the things that I hoped for from a Tocchet/Foote coached team. Toughness and were competing all over the ice. Just played a safe/smart game overall.

Just to add to the Studnicka point, I tend to agree with you that he looked out of place on the first line...maybe he needs time to adjust, but I certainly don't think this is an idea that will last very long...but thats not to say I don't like Studnicka for this lineup, I just think he can play a significant role as a 3rd liner, whether that's as a center or a winger I'm not sure (more likely as a winger scrapping for pucks and making plays off the wall)...but I love his energy and enthusiasm, plays with just enough jam and isn't an "offense killer"...just have a hard time seeing anything "top end" enough that puts him in a top line role.

 

[EpochLink]

Happy for Tocchet to get that first win.

I don’t hate the guy, he’s doing his job

 

[m9]

Just to add to the Studnicka point, I tend to agree with you that he looked out of place on the first line...maybe he needs time to adjust, but I certainly don't think this is an idea that will last very long...but thats not to say I don't like Studnicka for this lineup, I just think he can play a significant role as a 3rd liner, whether that's as a center or a winger I'm not sure (more likely as a winger scrapping for pucks and making plays off the wall)...but I love his energy and enthusiasm, plays with just enough jam and isn't an "offense killer"...just have a hard time seeing anything "top end" enough that puts him in a top line role.

I would really like to see him given some rope as a center just to see if there's something there. Main reason being a bottom-six energy winger is extremely easy to fill for cheap but if he was a serviceable RH bottom-six center then we actually have a useful, needed piece. And if he sucks at it.. well you still have a bottom-six energy winger.

 

[Gurn]

Just need to get cheaper.

Replace a top6 center.

Add 3 top4 Dmen.

Ezpz.

Get the penalty killing fixed
Get a more consistent power play- this one is either hot-or not working
Get some more physical wingers
Get their #1 goalie back on track
get an experienced back up- or hope Demko doesn't get injured again.
and find 2 top 3 centers- one to replace Bo and the other to keep Miller on the wing.

Super eazy/lemon squeezy

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

Against the Blackhawks.


Jesus Christ Imac.

iMac is easily the worst “journalist” that covers this team. Just spews out whatever shit Frankie feeds him, absolutely no integrity.