Post-Game Talk: Canucks def. Blackhawks - 5-2 (Kuzmenko x2, Joshua, Dries, Horvat)

[PuckMunchkin]

This is Drances' position that the Canucks are doing this on purpose to go on "a run" the rest of the way here to get just out of the bottom 10 and give fans "hope" with whatever they have left.

I can't imagine an organization being that stupid but hey if they go by the last 10 years it's the correct way to proceed.

We'll see if they actually don't trade Horvat, Schenn etc and just re-sign them at top $... run into cap problems... trade away picks to move contracts, etc.

I mean... they put them selves in to a position where they have to justify the moves they have done so far.

Its either that, or admit the first 12 months was a complete utter failure.

 

[arttk]

I like how Tocchett is actually striving to make Canucks an elite team and using Colorado as an example of how to play consistent.

That background makes it like a propaganda video

 

[Annihilator Gator]

Canucks should beat these teams regardless if Bruce or Rick is the coach.

This team is not doing a teardown rebuild - it's been repeated multiple times by multiple sources.

Aren't they planning on trading Bo and Schenn? Who else are you going to move?... Keeping Kuzmenko is debatable and likely the right move.

Where are they pushing in vets? They're letting Podz and Hogs develop in Abbotsford because they heavily regressed under Bruce this year.

Riding Bruce all year doesn't really make sense... can you imagine the uproar if we let Bruce coach till the end of the year as a "lame duck" head coach? I think the uproar would be 10x worse.

They gave Bruce a genuine chance to be competitive this year (and also added TWO top six forwards in Kuzmenko and Mikheyev) in addition to last year's roster. Bruce completely failed. Riding Bruce all year doesn't mean anything. Canucks could have bounced back under Bruce - who knows? Riding Bruce doesn't guarantee a worse record at all.

Instead of wasting time, the Canucks decided to hire a coach and assistants to start building habits and we need restructure at the leastbuilding better processes NOW. I don't see anything wrong with that approach if they are genuinely looking to turnaround this franchise in 2-3 years. You might not agree with the macro approach but the micro approach looks fine to me.

Licktheenvelope basically sounds where I'm at. The team composition doesn't work. Signing high money wingers doesn't fix our defense and were so close to the the bottom a top 5 pick might help more when we're competitive as opposed to now. No it's not going to make Petey want to stay. I don't think that's what they want but it almost seems inevitable. We may have to get used to it. We're not close enough where going all in makes sense or we might as well hire
Jim Benning back. We need restructuring at the least. Imo rebuild yes ownership and management have said otherwise but until they prove otherwise it means nothing. Anyway I'm out and goodnight

 

[JohnHodgson]

This is how the Canucks operate. Say they ride him the rest of this year with Kuzmenko and Kuzmenko ends up going on a tear with Pettersson, Canucks get up to say 12th or 13th worst in the league.

They cast off Horvat for a reclamation project (as they have hinted they want to) and re-sign Kuzmenko for $7 mil.

Now they basically have the same team sans Horvat with a filler replacement and less cap space.

Help coming from prospects? Nope, especially not in the areas where they need at center and on defense (that is even assuming they take decent prospects in the draft ... those players will be 3 years away in all likelihood).

Even if the Canucks do buy someone out go take a look at the UFA market. There's very little coming at the positions the Canucks need and what is there ... well there's no chance what so ever those players will be taking discounts to join a bottom half of the league team like the Canucks. So you get more overpayments on longer deals (see the past few years of Poolman, Ferland, etc etc etc etc).

So the Canucks want to provide more hope! So they keep rolling Pettersson with Kuzmenko and whoever. Now a one-line team the Canucks get Demko back but again are just good enough to miss the playoffs as they have no PK and 1 top 4 d-man, still.

So Kuzmenko again puts up maybe 80-90 points, great! As would basically any decent winger playing with Pettersson...

Canucks drop Myers after another bad year (maybe even deadline, who knows). And maybe they can get a buyout in on OEL in 2025 that only reduces their cap for 4 years.

They are still a very bad team with, still, very few prospects and no defense.

Roll year 3... again, they will be bad but not a bottom 5 team. Now you have Kuzmenko coming up with another 80+ point year.

Having watched, to that point, 12 years of the Canucks signings would you believe they would:
1. Trade expiring 29 year old Kuzmenko
or
2. Re-sign Kuzmenko to a long-term contract for fear of him going elsewhere and losing him for no assets
?

We can go through the list but suffice to say my bet would absolutely go to the Canucks re-signing him for 6-8 years at whatever the top few % of winger salaries are then. $9 mil per/6 years? Sure, why not. Canucks love having guys over 35 years old with wild contracts despite not even being a playoff team.

When did Brock Boeser put up 80-90 points? Or any decent winger playing with Petey ever?

Why does everyone conveniently leave out the fact that we went from world-class goaltending to some of the worst goaltending in the NHL?

If Demko comes back and provides AVERAGE goaltending, this team will look VERY different. People keep saying same old Canucks, but if they trade Bo, Schenn, and perhaps others like Garland and Boeser, this roster would have experienced a significant turnover in the past 1-2 years. I don't really agree with the doom and gloom, we're going to suck for 5 years yadayada.

If Miller can sustain as a solid 2C behind Petey under Tocchet, we can turn this around quicker than most people think. This might be a long shot but it's one of the quickest pathways to success. He did show he could play that position last year. Hockey is one of the most random sports... teams change places in standings in a year - this happens all the time. NJD picked 2nd last year in the draft and is a top 5 team today.

The Doom and Gloom chanting is really overblown. This same team (with less talent) was on a what... 106 point pace under BB last year?

 

[arttk]

The gms job,to keep the team competitive, do what they have to do,to get wins,not become a circus. Why change the coach then.

If you listen to them talk about it, you would know that they were frustrated that BB didn’t implement things that they thought was crucial for the team to win in a sustainable way. So if the basics is not there, it makes no sense to spend assets to patch that hole because of the root problem is not solved, you plug one hole another will appear.

I don’t agree with the coaching change so I am not going to even try to explain it

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

I mean... they put them selves in to a position where they have to justify the moves they have done so far.

Its either that, or admit the first 12 months was a complete utter failure.

But it was a complete failure lol. It could actually get worse!

 

[Annihilator Gator]

When did Brock Boeser put up 80-90 points? Or any decent winger playing with Petey ever?

Why does everyone conveniently leave out the fact that we went from world-class goaltending to some of the worst goaltending in the NHL?

If Demko comes back and provides AVERAGE goaltending, this team will look VERY different. People keep saying same old Canucks, but if they trade Bo, Schenn, and perhaps others like Garland and Boeser, this roster would have experienced a significant turnover in the past 1-2 years. I don't really agree with the doom and gloom, we're going to suck for 5 years yadayada.

If Miller can sustain as a solid 2C behind Petey under Tocchet, we can turn this around quicker than most people think. This might be a long shot but it's one of the quickest pathways to success. He did show he could play that position last year. Hockey is one of the most random sports... teams change places in standings in a year - this happens all the time. NJD picked 2nd last year in the draft and is a top 5 team today.

The Doom and Gloom chanting is really overblown. This same team (with less talent) was on a what... 106 point pace under BB last year?

We've sucked since 2011 haven't we had enough

 

[JohnHodgson]

Licktheenvelope basically sounds where I'm at. The team composition doesn't work. Signing high money wingers doesn't fix our defense and were so close to the the bottom a top 5 pick might help more when we're competitive as opposed to now. No it's not going to make Petey want to stay. I don't think that's what they want but it almost seems inevitable. We may have to get used to it. We're not close enough where going all in makes sense or we might as well hire
Jim Benning back. We need restructuring at the least. Imo rebuild yes ownership and management have said otherwise but until they prove otherwise it means nothing. Anyway I'm out and goodnight

The defence is bad because we had NO structure. Absolutely no desire to play defence under BB. We were really playing pond hockey trying to win 6-5 games.

And our goaltending sucks... Demko/Martin/Delia carousel is one of the worst in the league this year.

Both areas should see major improvement next year.

If we can get a top 4 RD from the Horvat trade, it will be a godsend for us.

 

[Nucker101]

Drance is one of the worst media members in Vancouver... his takes are horrible and he's basically just yelling 24/7.

You think the Canucks are in position to win games "on purpose"??? You think the Canucks are the type of a team that can go on a run "on purpose"????

Easier schedule means more wins. THat's all there is to is... there's no conspiracy here.

Not sure how his takes are horrible when he kept insisting during the Bruce run last year that this team isn't as good as the record under Bruce, meanwhile homer fans and the team's management group drank the koolaid and now all of them have an egg on their face. I don't listen to his radio show often and found him annoying during the Green era when he kept insisting that Green was a good coach, but he's maintained for awhile now that this roster isn't good enough and so far he's been 100% correct.

It's the people who think this team is close to competing that have to get their heads out of the ground. What evidence has this team given us that they're close to being a perennial playoff team that can contend for a cup?

None.

 

[Zippgunn]

I have zero issues with bruce being let go. It was a classless method but I expect nothing less from Aqua down

There is nothing to suggest Tocchet is qualified to take this team to a higher level. He has zero coaching pedigree

Oh but he does. He coached in Pittsburgh. That's all the pedigree you need with this management team. To be fair he was an assistant coach but they did win two Cups...

 

[JohnHodgson]

We've sucked since 2011 haven't we had enough

True... I never wanted Gillis fired but a lot of y'all were chanting fire Gillis... see what y'all did.

I'm actually with you guys, I think the complete rebuild has a higher chance of a Stanley Cup contending team.

I don't think the 2-3 year retool has a higher chance, but it is a viable path. They need to hit 3/4 homers to see this come to fruition. They hit home runs/triples on Kuzmenko and Mikheyev in the off-season (the two biggest acquisitions in the off-season). They need to ace the Horvat deal, ace the Boeser/Garland deal, and ace free agency for this team to be competitive next year.

 

[Nucker101]

True... I never wanted Gillis fired but a lot of y'all were chanting fire Gillis... see what y'all did.

I'm actually with you guys, I think the complete rebuild has a higher chance of a Stanley Cup contending team.

I don't think the 2-3 year retool has a higher chance, but it is a viable path. They need to hit 3/4 homers to see this come to fruition. They hit home runs/triples on Kuzmenko and Mikheyev in the off-season (the two biggest acquisitions in the off-season). They need to ace the Horvat deal, ace the Boeser/Garland deal, and ace free agency for this team to be competitive next year.

I think they hot a homerun with Kuz, Mikheyev seems about right, I wouldn't call him a steal on his contract, I think he's been fine. He's a clear 3rd wheel on that line.

 

[Annihilator Gator]

The defence is bad because we had NO structure. Absolutely no desire to play defence under BB. We were really playing pond hockey trying to win 6-5 games.

And our goaltending sucks... Demko/Martin/Delia carousel is one of the worst in the league this year.

Both areas should see major improvement next year.

If we can get a top 4 RD from the Horvat trade, it will be a godsend for us.

Other than the the obvious clips of miller not backchecking this is what we have. To assume they're just playing lazy is asinine. We've seen where we're at for what 40+ games now and I hope they learn and do better but it's not enough. I don't know what else to say.

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

When did Brock Boeser put up 80-90 points? Or any decent winger playing with Petey ever?

Why does everyone conveniently leave out the fact that we went from world-class goaltending to some of the worst goaltending in the NHL?

If Demko comes back and provides AVERAGE goaltending, this team will look VERY different. People keep saying same old Canucks, but if they trade Bo, Schenn, and perhaps others like Garland and Boeser, this roster would have experienced a significant turnover in the past 1-2 years. I don't really agree with the doom and gloom, we're going to suck for 5 years yadayada.

If Miller can sustain as a solid 2C behind Petey under Tocchet, we can turn this around quicker than most people think. This might be a long shot but it's one of the quickest pathways to success. He did show he could play that position last year. Hockey is one of the most random sports... teams change places in standings in a year - this happens all the time. NJD picked 2nd last year in the draft and is a top 5 team today.

The Doom and Gloom chanting is really overblown. This same team (with less talent) was on a what... 106 point pace under BB last year?

They can't trade Garland and Boeser. According to basically all the sources they have been trying for a long time to move both and can't unless they move out picks or prospects.

Average goaltending will not get the Canucks into the playoffs. We know cause they also did not make the playoffs the last few years with various great goaltending performances (Markstrom for example).

I don't know what to say if you think this team sans Horvat but plus Kuzmenko is going to hit 100 points next year.

How is it overblown? I'm telling you right now the Canucks will not make the playoffs for the next 3 years. It's not even remotely possible.

Is that "doom and gloom"?

 

[JohnHodgson]

Not sure how his takes are horrible when he kept insisting during the Bruce run last year that this team isn't as good as the record under Bruce, meanwhile homer fans and the team's management group drank the koolaid and now all of them have an egg on their face. I don't listen to his radio show often and found him annoying during the Green era when he kept insisting that Green was a good coach, but he's maintained for awhile now that this roster isn't good enough and so far he's been 100% correct.

It's the people who think this team is close to competing that have to get their heads out of the ground. What evidence has this team given us that they're close to being a perennial playoff team that can contend for a cup?

None.

Drance speaks in such absolutes. He speaks in such a condescending manner.

DIdn't he say something he was so sure of last year and it turned out completely wrong? Something about Vegas in standings?

Drance said this, this year:


Thomas Drance

@ThomasDrance


Oilers adding Dylan Holloway (with 2 years remaining o his ELC) is a problem for the Pacific Division.


LOL. Drance is educated but he says these outrageous takes in such an unprofessional manner. He's like a douchebag version of Botchford, with way more hot takes.

 

[Annihilator Gator]

True... I never wanted Gillis fired but a lot of y'all were chanting fire Gillis... see what y'all did.

I'm actually with you guys, I think the complete rebuild has a higher chance of a Stanley Cup contending team.

I don't think the 2-3 year retool has a higher chance, but it is a viable path. They need to hit 3/4 homers to see this come to fruition. They hit home runs/triples on Kuzmenko and Mikheyev in the off-season (the two biggest acquisitions in the off-season). They need to ace the Horvat deal, ace the Boeser/Garland deal, and ace free agency for this team to be competitive next year.

You're honestly making me lose my patience. I didn't even know what this forum was in that year or who Gillis was. Quit putting words in my mouth please. As far as the rest goes I agree for the most part.

 

[Vector]

He’s not really a long time Canuck guy though. He’s only been with us since 2020. He played with the twins for not even half a season.

Well looks like you answered it yourself. They want other assistants but they couldn’t get them so they kept some around. So I guess that’s why king and Yeo are still around.

King has been with the organization, as an AHL assistant, since the 16-17 season.

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

Not sure how his takes are horrible when he kept insisting during the Bruce run last year that this team isn't as good as the record under Bruce, meanwhile homer fans and the team's management group drank the koolaid and now all of them have an egg on their face. I don't listen to his radio show often and found him annoying during the Green era when he kept insisting that Green was a good coach, but he's maintained for awhile now that this roster isn't good enough and so far he's been 100% correct.

It's the people who think this team is close to competing that have to get their heads out of the ground. What evidence has this team given us that they're close to being a perennial playoff team that can contend for a cup?

None.

It's worse than this. We have fans (see above) who believe the Canucks "are close" and "will be fine."

I'm looking at the situation going "lol no. If all the stars align this is barely a playoff team over the next 3-5 years but with the d-core and zero prospects coming to the rescue odds are this team is in the 19th - 23rd spot in the league"

 

[Nucker101]

Drance speaks in such absolutes. He speaks in such a condescending manner.

DIdn't he say something he was so sure of last year and it turned out completely wrong? Something about Vegas in standings?

Drance said this, this year:


Thomas Drance
@ThomasDrance


Oilers adding Dylan Holloway (with 2 years remaining o his ELC) is a problem for the Pacific Division.


LOL. Drance is educated but he says these outrageous takes in such an unprofessional manner. He's like a douchebag version of Botchford, with way more hot takes.

I can’t speak to his prospect or league wide takes, but he’s been bang on about the Canucks lately outside of his weird Green obsession

 

[JohnHodgson]

... I mean no. I wanted them to trade other players earlier, like last season and in the offseason. Instead they re-signed all those players on stupid contracts they now cannot move without giving up assets. The guys they can move at top value who have expiring contracts: Horvat, Schenn and Kuzmenko.

The Canucks literally do this every single year where a guy is having a good year they then "lock him up" at the highest price possible.

Just picture what you are saying... they re-sign Kuzmenko say 3 years at $7 mil per. That cap space will be all of dropping Horvat + another $1 mil or so.

So now you have literally the same team that is bottom 7 in the NHL sans Horvat with less cap space. This is where I bang my head into a wall because people don't seem to get this.

There is no possible way to "turn it around" in 2 years. That is not possible. If you think the Canucks are going to magically acquire 3 top 4 d-men at value in the next 24 months I have some magic beans to sell you.

LMAO

So much "Doom and Gloom" in the post. I'm sorry you feel this way to be honest.

Saying something like "there is no possible way to turn it around in 2 years" is something out of Thomas Drance's hot take library.

This is sports - anything is possible. Canucks don't need 3 top 4 d-men - that's absolutely asinine to say. It's not about taking it step-by-step to turn things around. Canucks need to get 1 top 4 dman and then build off that. They need guys like Bear and Dermott to take positive steps. They need guys like Myers and OEL to bounce back.

Who would have thought we would have acquired two Russian wingers, one straight from Russia scoring at a near point per game pace? Nobody thought this would have happened six months ago given our track record with Russians.

Give this management group a chance. They've been here for literally a calendar year, that's absolutely not enough time to turn this Jim Benning masterpiece mess around.

 

[JohnHodgson]

I can’t speak to his prospect or league wide takes, but he’s been bang on about the Canucks lately outside of his weird Green obsession

He's been saying the Canucks suck for the past 2 years. Anyone with eyes can see that.

 

[Annihilator Gator]

LMAO

So much "Doom and Gloom" in the post. I'm sorry you feel this way to be honest.

Saying something like "there is no possible way to turn it around in 2 years" is something out of Thomas Drance's hot take library.

This is sports - anything is possible. Canucks don't need 3 top 4 d-men - that's absolutely asinine to say. It's not about taking it step-by-step to turn things around. Canucks need to get 1 top 4 dman and then build off that. They need guys like Bear and Dermott to take positive steps. They need guys like Myers and OEL to bounce back.

Who would have thought we would have acquired two Russian wingers, one straight from Russia scoring at a near point per game pace? Nobody thought this would have happened six months ago given our track record with Russians.

Give this management group a chance. They've been here for literally a calendar year, that's absolutely not enough time to turn this Jim Benning masterpiece mess around.

At their age what are the odds of oel and Myers bouncing back. Could potentially get something out of Myers that someone wants a big RHD and we retain some. Might get us something? Oel should realistically be bought out at the cheapest possible time. Bear I like but he Wes at best a 4 or 5 damn. Dermott who knows. Anything is not possible the league is tighter than ever. These older players aren't going to just find another gear or refind their game. We have to ride it out and look to the future drafting is the best way for that especially costwise. If you want kuz to get his deserved massive contract we're going to need more prospects than ever to be filling in these filler spots.

 

[JohnHodgson]

I think they hot a homerun with Kuz, Mikheyev seems about right, I wouldn't call him a steal on his contract, I think he's been fine. He's a clear 3rd wheel on that line.

Given what the Canucks needed, a two-way winger with speed that can play PK... signing Mikheyev on that UFA deal was definitely a triple, if not a home-run. He's been outstanding and has tremendous chemistry with Petey and Kuz. The term is also perfect considering he's in his prime right now.

He's definitely been a steal... he's outperforming Garland and Boeser significantly on smaller deals.

Getting Mikheyev was also instrumental in getting Kuzmenko, it's sort of a package deal.

A++ for Mikheyev + Kuzmenko for what, 6M??.

You're honestly making me lose my patience. I didn't even know what this forum was in that year or who Gillis was. Quit putting words in my mouth please. As far as the rest goes I agree for the most part.

I wasn't referring to you specifically.

I'm just reminiscing about Gillis.

 

[JohnHodgson]

I can’t speak to his prospect or league wide takes, but he’s been bang on about the Canucks lately outside of his weird Green obsession

Dude had the hardest hard-on for Green last year... it was so weird.

Drance pointing out the obvious is not really something that makes me say wow, he's so good! Dude regurgitates his message, and more annoyingly, yells and shoves his opinion down peoples throat.

Canucks have been bad for years... saying that we suck is just him doing his basic homework of watching the games. The Boudreaux bump was always a mirage based on world-class goaltending.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

But it was a complete failure lol. It could actually get worse!

I know.