Post-Game Talk: Canucks def. Blackhawks - 5-2 (Kuzmenko x2, Joshua, Dries, Horvat)

[Ginger Papa]

Likely a pyrrhic victory as the players like Carlsson, Benson and Fantelli head else where. So like the Canucks to do everything that screws their long term future. Chicago is doing it right - it's called accepting reality. Not much of that in Vancouver at the best of times.

Boudreau will quickly be forgotten and ancient history if Tocchet starts winning. However, Aquillini could have been behind the bench and won against this version of the Black Hawks. Don't think that even he couldn't have messed that up. But I guess with Fredo there was always the chance

Good

Kumenko - you wish you could just enjoy his play but then you remember he is headed for free agency. Really the player, along with Pettersson, that turned the game around

Joshua- different player in this one. Played as advertised in this game. Like how he went to the net and did something. Played mean and that seemed to sharpen his play.

Pettersson - not playing as well as earlier but made some vital plays

OEL - very solid game. Got more time and moved the puck efficiently. Reducing Hughes time and getting away from over carrying the puck too much gives the team a lot more structure ( the golden word right now). OEL plays like this, they get Myers head on straight and get Hughes to stop trying to do too much and they will be better in their end. Dermott also kept it simple and was better. But once again it was Chicago so we'll see.

Burroughs - much better than in his recent game. Got away from playing so much in traffic in this game.

Schenn - played a hard, intimating game. Puck movement was good.

Bad

Studnicka - quickly played himself off his line. Has so little actual skill. That trade increasingly looks like bad on Rutherford/Allvin. Dries is superior to Sudnicka.

Lazar - so little happening here except taking bad penalties. Poor as he was and is, I take Dickenson if you could get him at the same price. Lammikko was a lot better. Could see Aman moving up to take Lazar place. He is much better skater and player than Lazar.

Lockwood got dinged and he has had head injury problems previously - have to wonder about that long term. Don't really want Podkolzin called up but team might have little choice.

I’ve said it before but it deserves repeating,

Thank you for doing these Post-Game analysis. I might not agree with all your points, but I almost always learn something.

 

[Annihilator Gator]

? No? What can they possibly do with this top 6 and no prospects?

I don't disagree. But it seemed like they did better last year (for a while)

 

[Vector]

What?

Canucks coaching staff turns over again

Shaw is heading to Philadelphia after a single season in Vancouver, while Mike Yeo and Trent Cull are joining Bruce Boudreau's staff.

theprovince.com

Report: Mike Yeo “front and centre” to join Canucks as assistant coach

The Vancouver Canucks may be on the verge of filling the vacancy left...

canucksarmy.com

It literally says Mike Yeo was at the top of Bruce's list.

In Shaw’s place the Canucks have hired Mike Yeo, who was interim head coach in Philadelphia in the second half of the 2021-22 season after having serving as Alain Vigneault’s assistant for several seasons. He has previous head coaching experience: he was head coach in St. Louis for just shy of two full seasons beginning midway in the 2017-18 season. He was fired a third of the way into the 2018-19 season, replaced by Craig Berube, who led the Blues to the Stanley Cup that same season.



Yeo was head coach of the Minnesota Wild from 2011-12 to midway through the 2015-16 season, he was eventually replaced by current Canucks head coach Bruce Boudreau, who was hired the following summer.



Boudreau said that Yeo stayed in the Twin Cities after he was fired by the Wild and so the two coaches would run into each other at community events. From there, a friendship developed.


Yeo was at the top of Boudreau’s list of assistant coach candidates this off-season.



“I believe he’s a really good coach, I talked to a lot of people about him who I don’t know and they all said good things. They said you can’t find a better person. He’s a good communicator. And ever since the first moment I’ve talked with him I’ve seen the enthusiasm,” Boudreau said. ”



“I think he was dealt with a pretty tough hand taking over that team (in Philadelphia) this year. But he did it with such class and worked every day and I thought he did a good job.”



It really doesn't matter at the end of the day.

If you're a HEAD coach, you can't blame your results on losing ASSISTANT coaches.

Brad Shaw literally helped implement the systems last year. If Bruce is not good with X and O's that's on him.

From Patrick Johnston's article after Saturday's game:

He spoke of the quality of his coach staff, a group he didn’t know a year ago. He advocated for them all to get jobs again — or to be retained by the Canucks.

No one yet knows their fate, he said.

Mike Yeo was a face he knew in passing, but not really at all — essentially revealing that he was the pick of management to join the staff, by the way — Trent Cull he didn’t either, though he’d spoken with him at times last year because Cull was coaching the AHL team. He did work with Jason King last season, who was on the staff when Travis Green was fired.

---

So take that into account and then realize that Alvin and Yeo have a long history together and it's easy to connect the dots. That doesn't really mean anything but to characterize Yeo as a Boudreau guy is incorrect. Most likely, with the late departures of Shaw and Walker, Allvin suggested Yeo to Boudreau. He then asked around the coaching community before signing off on him.

Assisstant coaches are very important to most head coaches. Head coaching is far more about managing a room and setting a direction. Not being able to assemble your own coaching staff is a pretty big hindrance.

I'm the last one to defend Boudreau's performance this season but, I feel, it's important to have a good understanding of the situation and why it all went this bad so quickly.

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

Likely a pyrrhic victory as the players like Carlsson, Benson and Fantelli head else where. So like the Canucks to do everything that screws their long term future. Chicago is doing it right - it's called accepting reality. Not much of that in Vancouver at the best of times.

Boudreau will quickly be forgotten and ancient history if Tocchet starts winning. However, Aquillini could have been behind the bench and won against this version of the Black Hawks. Don't think that even he couldn't have messed that up. But I guess with Fredo there was always the chance

This is Drances' position that the Canucks are doing this on purpose to go on "a run" the rest of the way here to get just out of the bottom 10 and give fans "hope" with whatever they have left.

I can't imagine an organization being that stupid but hey if they go by the last 10 years it's the correct way to proceed.

We'll see if they actually don't trade Horvat, Schenn etc and just re-sign them at top $... run into cap problems... trade away picks to move contracts, etc.

 

[Vector]

This is Drances' position that the Canucks are doing this on purpose to go on "a run" the rest of the way here to get just out of the bottom 10 and give fans "hope" with whatever they have left.

I can't imagine an organization being that stupid but hey if they go by the last 10 years it's the correct way to proceed.

It's also counter to everything they've been saying publicly. Even Tocchet is openly saying that the process is more important than putting up wins.

 

[JohnHodgson]

Panarin was 24 (which is where Pettersson is), Kuzmenko is 27 in 2 weeks.

Panarin was 24 when he started his first year.

Kuzmenko was 26 when he started his first year.

I don't think 2 years makes a huge difference in this case - Panarin has not slowed down at all. He's turning 32 this year and has 50 points in 47 games.

I'm not saying Kuzmenko is as good as Panarin (he's not), but Kuzmenko's game is predicated on skill, IQ/hockey sense, and a good shot. His game is going to translate well into his 30's. I'm very confident he'll still be a really good player from 30-32. They should absolutely sign him to a long term extension.

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

It's also counter to everything they've been saying publicly. Even Tocchet is openly saying that the process is more important than putting up wins.

Hey I commend them on building a process with a team that has zero chance of competing for a Stanley cup and basically no prospects coming.

 

[JohnHodgson]

This is Drances' position that the Canucks are doing this on purpose to go on "a run" the rest of the way here to get just out of the bottom 10 and give fans "hope" with whatever they have left.

I can't imagine an organization being that stupid but hey if they go by the last 10 years it's the correct way to proceed.

We'll see if they actually don't trade Horvat, Schenn etc and just re-sign them at top $... run into cap problems... trade away picks to move contracts, etc.

Drance is one of the worst media members in Vancouver... his takes are horrible and he's basically just yelling 24/7.

You think the Canucks are in position to win games "on purpose"??? You think the Canucks are the type of a team that can go on a run "on purpose"????

Easier schedule means more wins. THat's all there is to is... there's no conspiracy here.

 

[Annihilator Gator]

Again I'll say facing real competition the the team may get put back in their place. Will be interesting to see if new coaching staff can pull them out of it and get back to it. Feel like a lot will end up on if Demko comes back in any form that he was.

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

Panarin was 24 when he started his first year.

Kuzmenko was 26 when he started his first year.

I don't think 2 years makes a huge difference in this case - Panarin has not slowed down at all. He's turning 32 this year and has 50 points in 47 games.

I'm not saying Kuzmenko is as good as Panarin (he's not), but Kuzmenko's game is predicated on skill, IQ/hockey sense, and a good shot. His game is going to translate well into his 30's. I'm very confident he'll still be a really good player from 30-32. They should absolutely sign him to a long term extension.

I disagree. I think if he gets into a good situation he will put up one or two further years better than this year and then he will start falling off.

I can absolutely see the Canucks riding him with Pettersson this year, re-signing him on a bridge for $7 mil per for 2-3 years... finishing 10th-14th worse in the league those years then re-signing him at what will probably be $9 mil + when he's 29/30.

 

[JohnHodgson]

From Patrick Johnston's article after Saturday's game:

He spoke of the quality of his coach staff, a group he didn’t know a year ago. He advocated for them all to get jobs again — or to be retained by the Canucks.

No one yet knows their fate, he said.

Mike Yeo was a face he knew in passing, but not really at all — essentially revealing that he was the pick of management to join the staff, by the way — Trent Cull he didn’t either, though he’d spoken with him at times last year because Cull was coaching the AHL team. He did work with Jason King last season, who was on the staff when Travis Green was fired.

---

So take that into account and then realize that Alvin and Yeo have a long history together and it's easy to connect the dots. That doesn't really mean anything but to characterize Yeo as a Boudreau guy is incorrect. Most likely, with the late departures of Shaw and Walker, Allvin suggested Yeo to Boudreau. He then asked around the coaching community before signing off on him.

Assisstant coaches are very important to most head coaches. Head coaching is far more about managing a room and setting a direction. Not being able to assemble your own coaching staff is a pretty big hindrance.

I'm the last one to defend Boudreau's performance this season but, I feel, it's important to have a good understanding of the situation and why it all went this bad so quickly.

Even if he wasn't Bruce's guy per se, neither was Brad Shaw his guy last year?

He came in and produced (mostly relying on world-class goaltending from Demo) last year. He didn't produce this year when the world-class goaltending turned into world-class bad goaltending.

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

Drance is one of the worst media members in Vancouver... his takes are horrible and he's basically just yelling 24/7.

You think the Canucks are in position to win games "on purpose"??? You think the Canucks are the type of a team that can go on a run "on purpose"????

Easier schedule means more wins. THat's all there is to is... there's no conspiracy here.

Yes the Canucks have 13 or so more games against teams actively tanking. The Canucks will do everything they can to win those games short of rushing guys from injuries (Demko as example).

 

[Annihilator Gator]

Drance is one of the worst media members in Vancouver... his takes are horrible and he's basically just yelling 24/7.

You think the Canucks are in position to win games "on purpose"??? You think the Canucks are the type of a team that can go on a run "on purpose"????

Easier schedule means more wins. THat's all there is to is... there's no conspiracy here.

No one's saying conspiracy. The team is where they are because of their play. Arizona and Montreal have given good teams a run for their money even if they lose. At times so have we. The playoff % is so low. Anaheim and Chicago should be ez wins. Doesn't mean much

 

[JohnHodgson]

I disagree. I think if he gets into a good situation he will put up one or two further years better than this year and then he will start falling off.

I can absolutely see the Canucks riding him with Pettersson this year, re-signing him on a bridge for $7 mil per for 2-3 years... finishing 10th-14th worse in the league those years then re-signing him at what will probably be $9 mil + when he's 29/30.

He's going to fall off based on....? Because you said so?

If Kuzmenko's going to fall off in a couple years, why would we re-sign him to a 9M deal after a bridge contract?

That literally doesn't make sense at all.

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

No one's saying conspiracy. The team is where they are because of their play. Arizona and Montreal have given good teams a run for their money even if they lose. At times so have we. The playoff % is so low. Anaheim and Chicago should be ez wins. Doesn't mean much

I mean it is a "conspiracy" but it's not nefarious, it's stupid. Playing to just miss the playoffs is always stupid unless you are an up and coming team with a lot of young players and a deep prospect pool and it is absolutely controllable (see the Hawks).

 

[JohnHodgson]

Yes the Canucks have 13 or so more games against teams actively tanking. The Canucks will do everything they can to win those games short of rushing guys from injuries (Demko as example).

What does this even mean?

I don't think this statement makes sense at all.

Easy schedule will result in more wins. What exactly can the Canucks do to increase their chance of winning? LOL

Again I'll say facing real competition the the team may get put back in their place. Will be interesting to see if new coaching staff can pull them out of it and get back to it. Feel like a lot will end up on if Demko comes back in any form that he was.

This win literally means nothing. Anybody taking anything from this win on any side is crazy.

Chicago is the worst team in the NHL by a country mile.

No one's saying conspiracy. The team is where they are because of their play. Arizona and Montreal have given good teams a run for their money even if they lose. At times so have we. The playoff % is so low. Anaheim and Chicago should be ez wins. Doesn't mean much

Canucks should beat Chicago, Columbus etc.

With Boudreau or Tocchet.

Fans aren't stupid... we're probably the most educated fans in the NHL simply due to the fact that we care too much.

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

What does this even mean?

I don't think this statement makes sense at all.

Easy schedule will result in more wins. What exactly can the Canucks do to increase their chance of winning? LOL

Start trading off the the guys who should be moved, instead of pushing in vets start giving younger guys more ice time.

They could have literally just rode Bruce this year and that likely would have lead to a worse record.

Instead of looking to the future they are reverting to the past.

 

[Annihilator Gator]

What does this even mean?

I don't think this statement makes sense at all.

Easy schedule will result in more wins. What exactly can the Canucks do to increase their chance of winning? LOL



This win literally means nothing. Anybody taking anything from this win on any side is crazy.

Chicago is the worst team in the NHL by a country mile.

I don't think the intent was to start winning more games is all. They just want to start getting them playing to the new coaches systems. For better or worse. Let's hope the former. I hate seeing them lose but if there's any year to do it and add picks. Again just my opinion

 

[brock hughes007]

Our record was already shit at that point and playoff was already lost. Why bother to use assets to resuscitate something that’s mostly dead.

The gms job,to keep the team competitive, do what they have to do,to get wins,not become a circus. Why change the coach then.

 

[Annihilator Gator]

The gms job,to keep the team competitive, do what they have to do,to get wins,not become a circus. Why change the coach then.

Because our clown of an owner forces them to even though we know we're basically in rebuild territory?

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

He's going to fall off based on....? Because you said so?

If Kuzmenko's going to fall off in a couple years, why would we re-sign him to a 9M deal after a bridge contract?

That literally doesn't make sense at all.

This is how the Canucks operate. Say they ride him the rest of this year with Kuzmenko and Kuzmenko ends up going on a tear with Pettersson, Canucks get up to say 12th or 13th worst in the league.

They cast off Horvat for a reclamation project (as they have hinted they want to) and re-sign Kuzmenko for $7 mil.

Now they basically have the same team sans Horvat with a filler replacement and less cap space.

Help coming from prospects? Nope, especially not in the areas where they need at center and on defense (that is even assuming they take decent prospects in the draft ... those players will be 3 years away in all likelihood).

Even if the Canucks do buy someone out go take a look at the UFA market. There's very little coming at the positions the Canucks need and what is there ... well there's no chance what so ever those players will be taking discounts to join a bottom half of the league team like the Canucks. So you get more overpayments on longer deals (see the past few years of Poolman, Ferland, etc etc etc etc).

So the Canucks want to provide more hope! So they keep rolling Pettersson with Kuzmenko and whoever. Now a one-line team the Canucks get Demko back but again are just good enough to miss the playoffs as they have no PK and 1 top 4 d-man, still.

So Kuzmenko again puts up maybe 80-90 points, great! As would basically any decent winger playing with Pettersson...

Canucks drop Myers after another bad year (maybe even deadline, who knows). And maybe they can get a buyout in on OEL in 2025 that only reduces their cap for 4 years.

They are still a very bad team with, still, very few prospects and no defense.

Roll year 3... again, they will be bad but not a bottom 5 team. Now you have Kuzmenko coming up with another 80+ point year.

Having watched, to that point, 12 years of the Canucks signings would you believe they would:
1. Trade expiring 29 year old Kuzmenko
or
2. Re-sign Kuzmenko to a long-term contract for fear of him going elsewhere and losing him for no assets
?

We can go through the list but suffice to say my bet would absolutely go to the Canucks re-signing him for 6-8 years at whatever the top few % of winger salaries are then. $9 mil per/6 years? Sure, why not. Canucks love having guys over 35 years old with wild contracts despite not even being a playoff team.

 

[JohnHodgson]

Start trading off the the guys who should be moved, instead of pushing in vets start giving younger guys more ice time.

They could have literally just rode Bruce this year and that likely would have lead to a worse record.

Instead of looking to the future they are reverting to the past.

Canucks should beat these teams regardless if Bruce or Rick is the coach.

This team is not doing a teardown rebuild - it's been repeated multiple times by multiple sources.

Aren't they planning on trading Bo and Schenn? Who else are you going to move?... Keeping Kuzmenko is debatable and likely the right move.

Where are they pushing in vets? They're letting Podz and Hogs develop in Abbotsford because they heavily regressed under Bruce this year.

Riding Bruce all year doesn't really make sense... can you imagine the uproar if we let Bruce coach till the end of the year as a "lame duck" head coach? I think the uproar would be 10x worse.

They gave Bruce a genuine chance to be competitive this year (and also added TWO top six forwards in Kuzmenko and Mikheyev) in addition to last year's roster. Bruce completely failed. Riding Bruce all year doesn't mean anything. Canucks could have bounced back under Bruce - who knows? Riding Bruce doesn't guarantee a worse record at all.

Instead of wasting time, the Canucks decided to hire a coach and assistants to start building habits and building better processes NOW. I don't see anything wrong with that approach if they are genuinely looking to turnaround this franchise in 2-3 years. You might not agree with the macro approach but the micro approach looks fine to me.

 

[RutherPlan]

I like how Tocchett is actually striving to make Canucks an elite team and using Colorado as an example of how to play consistent.

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

Canucks should beat these teams regardless if Bruce or Rick is the coach.

This team is not doing a teardown rebuild - it's been repeated multiple times by multiple sources.

Aren't they planning on trading Bo and Schenn? Who else are you going to move?... Keeping Kuzmenko is debatable and likely the right move.

Where are they pushing in vets? They're letting Podz and Hogs develop in Abbotsford because they heavily regressed under Bruce this year.

Riding Bruce all year doesn't really make sense... can you imagine the uproar if we let Bruce coach till the end of the year as a "lame duck" head coach? I think the uproar would be 10x worse.

They gave Bruce a genuine chance to be competitive this year (and also added TWO top six forwards in Kuzmenko and Mikheyev) in addition to last year's roster. Bruce completely failed. Riding Bruce all year doesn't mean anything. Canucks could have bounced back under Bruce - who knows? Riding Bruce doesn't guarantee a worse record at all.

Instead of wasting time, the Canucks decided to hire a coach and assistants to start building habits and building better processes NOW. I don't see anything wrong with that approach if they are genuinely looking to turnaround this franchise in 2-3 years. You might not agree with the macro approach but the micro approach looks fine to me.

Just think it out. They absolutely require 3 top 4 d-men to compete they will need a new top line (or 2nd line) center. They will need a better backup goalie who can actually play hockey.

Now go look at their cap situation.

Realize they have basically zero prospects other than 3 or 4 wingers who might be mid-6 wingers.

How on earth is this team even a playoff team within 3 years????

 

[arttk]

King, to me, is pretty easy to see why he's still here. Long time Canuck guy that has a good relationship with the Sedins. While the power play has been frustrating, at times, it's not really the biggest problem on the team and he's had past success with it. Then, there's Friedman reporting that they've talked to other assistants and development coaches but they are unable to join the team until the offseason. So, you aren't going to fire the guy who's at least shown competency only to replace him with a temporary outside the organization person only to then let that person go and bring in your own during the offseason.

He’s not really a long time Canuck guy though. He’s only been with us since 2020. He played with the twins for not even half a season.

Well looks like you answered it yourself. They want other assistants but they couldn’t get them so they kept some around. So I guess that’s why king and Yeo are still around.