Canes Offer Sheet KK (6.1 for 1 yr) Part II

[sandviper]

Bergevin got played.................again.

That, or Bergy was freaking taking a nap again. I mean, you drafted the kid #3 overall… he should had been a priority before going o vacation, regardless of how the team feels about his past performance.

End of the day, I think unless either or both take a massive setback, both Suzuki and in a couple years, Caufield, are both getting longer contracts worth more than $6m so despite what I said about this OS matching setting a precedent, it’s not a big deal for those two because they ARE getting $6m+.

As for KK, if we match, we certainly have no choice but to give him every opportunity to succeed. Heck, Bergy may even mandate DD to give him 18 minutes and PP time to force that next step out of him.

I think I was more pissed last night when I said let him walk. I am still pissed he signed, though I know why. I’m more pissed at the team for letting it go this far.

Unless we can flip the potential 1st and 3rd for a legit center, those picks have such low value for us otherwise.

 

[dinodebino]

The blunder was a little earlier than that. In June of that year.

Hahahaha, OK, maybe.

 

[WeThreeKings]

It’s looking unlikely that KK would sign a long term deal in Montreal for less than 6 next season.

So, Montreal should only match if they believe that somehow, miraculously, he becomes a 6M player next season.

They can’t afford to keep rolling QO’s his way given his flaws. Skating, slow release, consistency issues.

You don't have to keep rolling a QO on him.. if he doesn't show a substantial jump in year 4, you just cut your losses.

Do you know how f***ing stupid they look if they let KK go for a late 1st and 3rd and he becomes a legitimate top 6 center, as a top 3 pick just 3 years ago?

Funny how there's infinite patience for Jonathan Drouin around here, but KK at 21 is just completely done. Drouin's contract has been horrendous this entire time but it has not made Gallagher more expensive on his long term deal, did it?

 

[WeThreeKings]

That, or Bergy was freaking taking a nap again. I mean, you drafted the kid #3 overall… he should had been a priority before going o vacation, regardless of how the team feels about his past performance.

End of the day, I think unless either or both take a massive setback, both Suzuki and in a couple years, Caufield, are both getting longer contracts worth more than $6m so despite what I said about this OS matching setting a precedent, it’s not a big deal for those two because they ARE getting $6m+.

As for KK, if we match, we certainly have no choice but to give him every opportunity to succeed. Heck, Bergy may even mandate DD to give him 18 minutes and PP time to force that next step out of him.

I think I was more pissed last night when I said let him walk. I am still pissed he signed, though I know why. I’m more pissed at the team for letting it go this far.

Unless we can flip the potential 1st and 3rd for a legit center, those picks have such low value for us otherwise.

And they don't have the potential for a legit center.. as Friedman mentioned, Carolina was looking around for centers and did this. If this was enough for Dvorak, they would have just made that deal and enjoyed paying a guy 4.5m instead.

 

[OldCraig71]

What would it take to get Nazem Kadri from Colorado? He is in the final year of his contract and I am not sure that the Avs want him anymore, his dad is a lifelong habs fan and he could certainly handle the job behind Suzuki. Thoughts.

 

[Doc McKenna]

Disagree. If reported numbers are true, MB did not lowball him. How is 2.5 a lowball offer? Kid proved squat.

He proved he was great in the playoffs and at 20 years old. He proved that the habs losing Danault didn't matter to them. There is rumour it was for less. And it is ONLY his performance bonus from his ELC. What was the duration of that offer? 3 years at 2.5? I would laugh at that. Esp knowing the habs need him with Danault gone, or the fact he has been in multiple trade talks. He won't be a hab anyway so why take that offer.

SEASON

CLAUSE

CAP HIT

AAV

P. BONUSES

S. BONUSES

BASE SALARY

TOTAL SALARY

MINORS SALARY

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

2018-19		$925,000	$3,425,000	$2,500,000	$92,500	$832,500	$925,000	$70,000
2019-20		$925,000	$3,425,000	$2,500,000	$92,500	$832,500	$925,000	$70,000
2020-21		$925,000	$3,425,000	$2,500,000	$92,500	$832,500	$925,000	$70,000

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

For a comparable of someone drafted after him and given a chance here is a write up on Brady T

Make no mistake, though, he’s in big league territory and there are a few trails to follow with what’s happened recently with high-end draft picks coming out of their entry-level deals.
If the Senators go down the long-term road, buying Tkachuk out of years of unrestricted free agency, the contracts of New Jersey’s Nico Hischier (seven years, $50.75 million), Winnipeg’s Kyle Connor (seven years, $50 million), Arizona’s Clayton Keller (eight years, $57.2 million) and Colorado’s Mikko Rantanen (six years, $55 million) could come into play.

There are mid-range options, where players don’t give up unrestricted free agency and maintain salary arbitration rights when the contract expires.
Mathew Barzal of the New York Islanders (three years, $21 million), San Jose’s Timo Meier (four years, $24 million) and Vancouver’s Brock Boeser (three years, $17.62 million) are part of that world.
The most interesting contract here, however, could be the three-year, $21-million deal signed by Matthew Tkachuk — Brady’s brother — with Calgary in 2019.

DO any of those contracts look like 2-2.5 million deals? Let alone the duration?

 

[WeThreeKings]

What would it take to get Nazem Kadri from Colorado? He is in the final year of his contract and I am not sure that the Avs want him anymore, his dad is a lifelong habs fan and he could certainly handle the job behind Suzuki. Thoughts.

The Colorado Avalanche are competing for the cup, they're not selling at a critical position. So unless you're sending back a legit NHL center and another contributing piece or trade currency, they are not going to be interested.

 

[OldCraig71]

The Colorado Avalanche are competing for the cup, they're not selling at a critical position. So unless you're sending back a legit NHL center and another contributing piece or trade currency, they are not going to be interested.

I just wonder how they feel about him with his playoff antics and I doubt that they are interested in keeping him long-term, he's already 30 years old. I am just spitballing here, we are about to be in a tough situation. I do not see MB matching the Canes offer for KK.

 

[Doc McKenna]

More ammo to trade.
Never too many skilled centres.

People don't get they can use one of these as an asset to get a Dman. Dmen lower down the need tier, or a winger, even further down the tier chart. At worst someone goes to wing. Its not like people here didn't say KK should be on wing anyway.

 

[WeThreeKings]

I just wonder how they feel about him with his playoff antics and I doubt that they are interested in keeping him long-term, he's already 30 years old. I am just spitballing here, we are about to be in a tough situation. I do not see MB matching the Canes offer for KK.

He has 0 choice and if he doesn't match, prepare to give away the pick that gets a franchise player to someone else for a mediocre center. I hope everyone realizes this.

 

[Ozmodiar]

You don't have to keep rolling a QO on him.. if he doesn't show a substantial jump in year 4, you just cut your losses.

Do you know how f***ing stupid they look if they let KK go for a late 1st and 3rd and he becomes a legitimate top 6 center, as a top 3 pick just 3 years ago?

Funny how there's infinite patience for Jonathan Drouin around here, but KK at 21 is just completely done. Drouin's contract has been horrendous this entire time but it has not made Gallagher more expensive on his long term deal, did it?

and how stupid will they look if they cut their losses and let him go for nothing??

that’s the point. If they sign him, they’d better hope he plays up to the level of the contract, or close to it. If he doesn’t, they’ll have to let him go for nothing.

 

[BergevinBurner]

The Colorado Avalanche are competing for the cup, they're not selling at a critical position. So unless you're sending back a legit NHL center and another contributing piece or trade currency, they are not going to be interested.

They very well could view him as a liability based on his last few playoff outbursts.
If I'm them I'd consider moving him for futures and freeing up the cap so you can freely target someone more reliable come deadline time.

 

[OldCraig71]

They very well could view him as a liability based on his last few playoff outbursts.
If I'm them I'd consider moving him for futures and freeing up the cap so you can freely target someone more reliable come deadline time.

This is my line of thinking as well.

 

[WeThreeKings]

and how stupid will they look if they cut their losses and let him go for nothing??

that’s the point. If they sign him, they’d better hope he plays up to the level of the contract, or close to it. If he doesn’t, they’ll have to let him go for nothing.

Not as stupid as they would for letting a 21 year old top 6 C go for a late first and third.

The point is that the 4th year was always going to be a make or break year for the Habs and KK. Walking away from the compensation you get for a pending UFA at the trade deadline to know exactly what you have in KK is far better than the alternative.

I would have 0 problem with walking away from his QO next year if there isn't solid progression in his game. At least then you know.

 

[OldCraig71]

He has 0 choice and if he doesn't match, prepare to give away the pick that gets a franchise player to someone else for a mediocre center. I hope everyone realizes this.

I realize that the potential is there for KK to become a great player but it’s not a sure bet. What if we match and he puts up 30 points for 6.1 million?

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Bergi was doing so good recently too and now he gets hit with this , GG boys that's a tough one to swallow.

The logo will live on regardless of what happens here and I can only imagine the look on KK's face when somebody offered him 6 million I'm dead lool

 

[Sterling Archer]

Said here before : can’t trade him for a complete calendar year.

I know. I’d trade him next year.

 

[OnTheRun]

Well shit, double-shifting Nate Thompson et al really paid off for the brain thrust of this team.

 

[WeThreeKings]

I realize that the potential is there for KK to become a great player but it’s not a sure bet. What if we match and he puts up 30 points for 6.1 million?

Then you walk away from his QO next season and are confident in an assessment that it's unlikely he meets a top 6 potential. You also likely have other draft pick currency from selling at the deadline because you are no where near the play-offs.

 

[abo9]

He proved he was great in the playoffs and at 20 years old. He proved that the habs losing Danault didn't matter to them. There is rumour it was for less. And it is ONLY his performance bonus from his ELC. What was the duration of that offer? 3 years at 2.5? I would laugh at that. Esp knowing the habs need him with Danault gone, or the fact he has been in multiple trade talks. He won't be a hab anyway so why take that offer.

SEASON

CLAUSE

CAP HIT

AAV

P. BONUSES

S. BONUSES

BASE SALARY

TOTAL SALARY

MINORS SALARY

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

2018-19		$925,000	$3,425,000	$2,500,000	$92,500	$832,500	$925,000	$70,000
2019-20		$925,000	$3,425,000	$2,500,000	$92,500	$832,500	$925,000	$70,000
2020-21		$925,000	$3,425,000	$2,500,000	$92,500	$832,500	$925,000	$70,000

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

For a comparable of someone drafted after him and given a chance here is a write up on Brady T

Make no mistake, though, he’s in big league territory and there are a few trails to follow with what’s happened recently with high-end draft picks coming out of their entry-level deals.
If the Senators go down the long-term road, buying Tkachuk out of years of unrestricted free agency, the contracts of New Jersey’s Nico Hischier (seven years, $50.75 million), Winnipeg’s Kyle Connor (seven years, $50 million), Arizona’s Clayton Keller (eight years, $57.2 million) and Colorado’s Mikko Rantanen (six years, $55 million) could come into play.

There are mid-range options, where players don’t give up unrestricted free agency and maintain salary arbitration rights when the contract expires.
Mathew Barzal of the New York Islanders (three years, $21 million), San Jose’s Timo Meier (four years, $24 million) and Vancouver’s Brock Boeser (three years, $17.62 million) are part of that world.
The most interesting contract here, however, could be the three-year, $21-million deal signed by Matthew Tkachuk — Brady’s brother — with Calgary in 2019.

DO any of those contracts look like 2-2.5 million deals? Let alone the duration?

but those are all much better players than KK lol

KK's comparable is someone like Filip Chityl, Nolan Patrick or even Roope Hintz (although Hintz had a much better contract year)

Not the Tkachuks, not Rantanen and certainly not Matt Barzal wtf

 

[Milhouse40]

and how stupid will they look if they cut their losses and let him go for nothing??

that’s the point. If they sign him, they’d better hope he plays up to the level of the contract, or close to it. If he doesn’t, they’ll have to let him go for nothing.

That's not really true.

Let's say KK has another season around 30-35 points....

If he ask for his QO at 6 millions and team refuse and let it walk for nothing, he will still end up getting a 3-4 millions deal as a UFA and nothing more which is something the team can offer. In the end, it's the same result for KK and he won't get paid that 6 millions.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

Not as stupid as they would for letting a 21 year old top 6 C go for a late first and third.

The point is that the 4th year was always going to be a make or break year for the Habs and KK. Walking away from the compensation you get for a pending UFA at the trade deadline to know exactly what you have in KK is far better than the alternative.

I would have 0 problem with walking away from his QO next year if there isn't solid progression in his game. At least then you know.

It's kinda trending that way already.

He does better in the playoffs, but the game is also slower and his better play didn't seem to be that consistent throughout it.

The 1st and 3rd along with possibly a prospect could land you Dvorak. He relaced Danault and then you're left trying injury find a 3rd line centre

Bozak. Still had decent numbers last year, elder statesmen. Really good on faceoffs.

Not to go off topic, but if he's willing to, habs should sign Bozak regardless.

 

[WeThreeKings]

It's kinda trending that way already.

He does better in the playoffs, but the game is also slower and his better play didn't seem to be that consistent throughout it.

The 1st and 3rd along with possibly a prospect could land you Dvorak. He relaced Danault and then you're left trying injury find a 3rd line centre

Bozak. Still had decent numbers last year, elder statesmen. Really good on faceoffs.

Not to go off topic, but if he's willing to, habs should sign Bozak regardless.

If the 1st and 3rd and prospect could land you Dvorak, why is Dvorak not currently a Carolina Hurricane?

And I disagree that it's trending that way already, you can count on one hand the amount of games that KK had stable linemates for. You don't even have to count to know how many times he's been given a top 6 deployment.

And he is hitting his age where most players break out and take their game to the next level. Not to mention that it's been two play-off runs where he has been our most effective goal scorer there. You have to be super confident on his upside here and I know this is the house of flaming hot shit takes on Kotkaniemi and young players, but NHL front offices have a bit more patience and understanding here.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

If the 1st and 3rd and prospect could land you Dvorak, why is Dvorak not currently a Carolina Hurricane?

They have Jordan Staal as that defensive centre.

Edit: I should also mention Aho is quite good on the defensive aspect of the game, too.

 

[_habsfan9]

The comments left on his Instagram page are a disgrace. He is a human being. Not sure how anyone could be mad at the kid for doing what's best for himself.