Canadian Government Freezing Hockey Canada Funding- (2018 Canada World Jr Team Alleged Sexual Assault)

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[pcruz]

Ahhh, I was waiting for someone to post Exhibit D. Thanks for posting that.

Perfect information doesn't exist. There is no such thing as "all the information".

There is evidence, and we consider the evidence. When we reach a point where we strongly believe no further useful evidence is forthcoming, we reach a decision.

That decision could be a conclusion.

Or it could be a decision that no conclusion can be made.

But yeah, remember what I wrote about delay? Waiting for something that doesn't exist is one of the best - if not the best - way to delay.

As a law enforcement officer, this reads as pure fairy-tale level of delusion.

We always have much more information than the public knows, even when freedom of information requests are made.
We get all kinds of gossip and unverifiable information and do our best to verify what parts of it can be corroborated in any way.

When conducting an investigation, there is a balanced made between the information and evidence available, pertinent laws and procedures, timelines, and likelyhood of prosecution.

The worst thing to do is to jump into a criminal complaint too quickly, without enough evidence, and have the case decided in court not in our favour.

At the same time, prosecutors are not always as gung-ho about having things adjudicated as we are and will sometimes hesitate and slow-play court cases in order to have stronger cases by waiting for more information and evidence.

 

[Stylizer1]

I really hope you never have daughters because it sounds like every bad thing that happens to them you'd somehow put the blame solely on their shoulders for not making smarter decisions.

In this case, you seem to think that if a girl is OK with going to a guy's hotel room to have sex with him, she should also be expecting to have to have sex with 7 of his friends as well.

Nope I never said that. She could have wanted to but after wards regretted it. After regretting it told her mom and her Mom was outraged. you don't know and neither do I. So lets not jump to conclusions. No parent wants this for their kid.

I really hope you never have daughters because it sounds like every bad thing that happens to them you'd somehow put the blame solely on their shoulders for not making smarter decisions.

In this case, you seem to think that if a girl is OK with going to a guy's hotel room to have sex with him, she should also be expecting to have to have sex with 7 of his friends as well.

I hope you never have a son who is falsely accused of rape.

You forgot the part where you’d sit your daughter down and tell them they’re partially to blame for getting into the situation to begin with.

A good parent would never do that.

We don't consider the evidence. Law enforcement, crown attorneys, judges and unbiased juries consider the evidence. They then reach a decision. They had already reached a decision once, based on the available evidence at the time. They'll now re-examine the evidence, perhaps there's something new, or something was missed, and reach another decision, or set of decisions, in the coming weeks or month.

We, in this thread or on Twitter, don't have access to all the evidence and are in no position to make conclusions that should be taken as the "truth".

We can have our own opinions and can act on them as we see fit, but we need to acknowledge that they're nothing more than opinions.

Been trying to say this.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

If my daughter put herself in that position I would be mad as hell at them for doing that and would give my daughter all the love she needed during this time. It doesn't excuse anyone but I would understand that both sides are at fault. I would hope through all the years of teaching my daughter what to and not do in life that she would be smart enough not put herself in that position.

Yikes.

The fact that she was stupid and kept drinking does not equate to her being at fault. Jesus Christ, dude. Young people over-drink all the time, adults do too. Doesn't mean that when they get sexually abused, that they are equally at fault.

 

[Korpse]

It’s unfortunate but I expect to see vague statements from the remaining players tomorrow afternoon. That’s when they can release them without getting as much attention.

It kind of sounds like you presume they are guilty because they haven’t meet your timeline of when they needed to release a statement.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

It kind of sounds like you presume they are guilty because they haven’t meet your timeline of when they needed to release a statement.

I’m not calling anyone guilty, but I’m suspicious of anyone waiting this long to offer a statement. My suspicions could end up being wrong but that’s where I’m at.

 

[PostBradMalone]

It kind of sounds like you presume they are guilty because they haven’t meet your timeline of when they needed to release a statement.

To be fair, it is a common PR tactic. Also, the threat of a deadline does exist in the form of next Tuesday's Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage hearings. This will include someone from Henein Hutchison LLP, the firm that conducted the original investigation. There is every possibility that leads to further identifying information up to and including the names of those they interviewed. If none of the players who've released a statement by now don't do it ahead of those hearings, they're throwing away an opportunity to potentially help themselves.

 

[Stylizer1]

Yikes.

The fact that she was stupid and kept drinking does not equate to her being at fault. Jesus Christ, dude. Young people over-drink all the time, adults do too. Doesn't mean that when they get sexually abused, that they are equally at fault.

How drunk was she? what was she wearing? after she finished having sex with the first guy what gave the second guy an impression it was ok to continue? what did she say? Whose name was the Hotel room under and why weren't they there? You don't know anything and that is my point.

If it comes out that after the first guy 7 guys got naked and gang raped her then I hope they get the death penalty.

 

[AlaBlueShirt]

How drunk was she? what was she wearing? after she finished having sex with the first guy what gave the second guy an impression it was ok to continue? what did she say? Whose name was the Hotel room under and why weren't they there? You don't know anything and that is my point.

If it comes out that after the first guy 7 guys got naked and gang raped her then I hope they get the death penalty.

Just delete your account.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

How drunk was she? what was she wearing? after she finished having sex with the first guy what gave the second guy an impression it was ok to continue? what did she say? Whose name was the Hotel room under and why weren't they there? You don't know anything and that is my point.

If it comes out that after the first guy 7 guys got naked and gang raped her then I hope they get the death penalty.

Absurd, victim blaming. What was she wearing???

Yikes, man. Sens board, come get your boy.

 

[4thline]

If it comes out that after the first guy 7 guys got naked and gang raped her then I hope they get the death penalty.

What if they came in, they along with a guy she was presumably into cajoled/guilted and otherwise convinced her, and she grudgingly went along with it with different points of hesitation that they (non-violently) nudged her through, all happening within the power dynamic and inherent threat of violence of being alone in a room with 8 significantly larger people?

 

[Tragedy]

In what position exactly? Is it her fault she got raped? Was it what she was wearing?

How drunk was she? what was she wearing? after she finished having sex with the first guy what gave the second guy an impression it was ok to continue? what did she say? Whose name was the Hotel room under and why weren't they there? You don't know anything and that is my point.

If it comes out that after the first guy 7 guys got naked and gang raped her then I hope they get the death penalty.

Oh... I didn't even have to use hyperbole, you just said it yourself. Huh.

 

[PostBradMalone]

How drunk was she? what was she wearing? after she finished having sex with the first guy what gave the second guy an impression it was ok to continue? what did she say? Whose name was the Hotel room under and why weren't they there? You don't know anything and that is my point.

 

[Stylizer1]

Absurd, victim blaming. What was she wearing???

Yikes, man. Sens board, come get your boy.

YOu have no idea of anything was the point.

What if they came in, they along with a guy she was presumably into cajoled/guilted and otherwise convinced her, and she grudgingly went along with it with different points of hesitation that they (non-violently) nudged her through, all happening within the power dynamic and inherent threat of violence of being alone in a room with 8 significantly larger people?

What if it wasn't grudgingly but accepting? This is why I am saying we all have to wait. You in this very post are making so many assumptions. why can't you see that? This is bias and prejudice.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

YOu have no idea of anything was the point.

The only point I have for you is my finger pointing towards the exit sign for this thread.

 

[Stylizer1]

The only point I have for you is my finger pointing towards the exit sign for this thread.

spoken like a true bias person.

 

[4thline]

What if it wasn't grudgingly but accepting? This is why I am saying we all have to wait. You in this very post are making so many assumptions. why can't you see that? This is bias and prejudice.

Grudgingly is an adverb. It implies acceptance. She is saying this what happened.
It's a what if. In the scenario I laid out, the scenario that the plaintiff claims. did the players do something wrong? Did they commit a crime?

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

How drunk was she? what was she wearing? after she finished having sex with the first guy what gave the second guy an impression it was ok to continue? what did she say? Whose name was the Hotel room under and why weren't they there? You don't know anything and that is my point.

If it comes out that after the first guy 7 guys got naked and gang raped her then I hope they get the death penalty.

See? This is what I mean. Imagine your daughter is assaulted and these are the questions you’d ask her.

It’s called having a shred of empathy and maybe decency here. You should learn it.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

YOu have no idea of anything was the point.


What if it wasn't grudgingly but accepting? This is why I am saying we all have to wait. You in this very post are making so many assumptions. why can't you see that? This is bias and prejudice.

So are you saying you have no issues with a man carrying a woman who cannot walk, who he has been feeding shots to all night, to a hotel room, having sex with her, then inviting all his boys to the room to also have sex with the extremely intoxicated woman? Can a woman who cant walk without help consent to that in your mind?

Let's say your daughter went to a party. Some football bros fed her a bunch of narcotics, got her off her mind, laid her in a bed then took turns having sex with her - would your first question be: "Well...did you say they couldn't?"

Would you say "Well, you were dressed like a slut, what did you expect?"

spoken like a true bias person.

Tell me, where's my bias in your mind?

 

[Stylizer1]

Grudgingly is an adverb. It implies acceptance. She is saying this what happened.
It's a what if. In the scenario I laid out, the scenario that the plaintiff claims. did the players do something wrong? Did they commit a crime?

grudg·ing·ly:

adverb
adverb: grudgingly

1. in a reluctant or resentful manner.
   "I grudgingly accepted his apology"
   
   
   ac·cept:
   
   
   
2. verb
   1. 1.
      consent to receive (a thing offered).
      "he accepted a pen as a present"
      
      ​
      
      
      

 

[Thierry]

spoken like a true bias person.

Bias or not, it doesn't matter. As much as the way she was dressed doesn't matter. I can't believe people need to explain that to you today.

Yeah, we don't have *all the informations*. But the way she is dressed is beyond pertinent.

 

[Stylizer1]

So are you saying you have no issues with a man carrying a woman who cannot walk, who he has been feeding shots to all night, to a hotel room, having sex with her, then inviting all his boys to the room to also have sex with the extremely intoxicated woman? Can a woman who cant walk without help consent to that in your mind?

Let's say your daughter went to a party. Some football bros fed her a bunch of narcotics, got her off her mind, laid her in a bed then took turns having sex with her - would your first question be: "Well...did you say they couldn't?"

Would you say "Well, you were dressed like a slut, what did you expect?"

Tell me, where's my bias in your mind?

YOu are changing the subject now to make yourself out to be right. There is no debating people like you.

 

[catnip]

The "we don't know" crowd would be a lot more convincing if their idea of what we don't know didn't seem to revolve almost completely around what the woman might've done to bring this on herself or how the eight young men might be the real victims here. Let's at least pretend that it goes both ways. We can't call anyone a rapist because there's no court verdict but we can turn around and call the alleged victim a liar without any proof. How does that work?

 

[Thierry]

I hate the "what if it was your daughter" narrative. We shouldn't have to imagine our daughters/mothers/sisters/friends to understand how awful sexual assault is.

I cringe so bad when I read something like "I use to think a certain way but now that I have a daughter, I finally understand the negative implications of some bad behavior..."

 

[Stylizer1]

Bias or not, it doesn't matter. As much as the way she was dressed doesn't matter. I can't believe people need to explain that to you today.

Yeah, we don't have *all the informations*. But the way she is dressed is beyond pertinent.

Her dress didn't matter. It was used as an example that the poster I was reffering to had no idea what hey were talking about. I could have replaced that question with litteraly anything else. How many rings did she have on, what color was her phone case, etc. I understand the narrative from days past where people would say well she dressed like she wanted it. This is not that.